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Thread: winchester/savage arms stupidity/ 17 winchester "SUPER" mag:

  1. #1
    Member mainer_in_ak's Avatar
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    Default winchester/savage arms stupidity/ 17 winchester "SUPER" mag:

    during a time of massive shortages with rimfire ammo, unable to keep up with the current demand of existing rimfire cartridges.....let's introduce a "new rimfire cartride". Can you hear those gun-rag clowns?

    The name is sooooo catchy:

    17 winchester SUPER mangum:

    http://www.gunsandammo.com/2013/06/1...-super-magnum/

  2. #2
    Member hodgeman's Avatar
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    Whether the cartridge is a good idea or not remains to be seen, but from a manufacturing standpoint is isn't really effecting the existing rimfire market or Winchester's ability to make .22LR.

    The .17 WSM uses cases from Winchester's Powder Actuated Tool division (which is probably a bit idle given the economy) and re-purposed it to producing the new round for the shooting sport side of the house...kinda smart from a manufacturing standpoint.

    As a better mousetrap the new round doesn't do much for me...got little interest in the .17 of any flavor and if I did the .17 Hornet would be what caught my eye.

    The Savage B-Mag.... wow...homely...<yawn>.
    "I do not deal in hypotheticals. The world, as it is, is vexing enough..." Col. Stonehill, True Grit

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    Member The Kid's Avatar
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    While I don't need one, I have a 17rem and a 22lr, and am vehemently opposed to silly "magnum" rimfires. I believe that this one will fulfill its intended purpose nicely, that purpose being to put money in the fine folks at Winchester's pockets. I'm sure there will be a whole slug of guys trading off their 17hmrs to get the latest greatest, just like all the 300 and 7mm mags when the WSM line debuted. Probably be fun to play with if they came in a real rifle.

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    Member AKsoldier's Avatar
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    There are two boxes of that ammo at Sportsman's in Wasilla. I haven't seen a rifle chambered in that caliber yet though. While I have no personal interest in this particular caliber, I whole - heartedly support the introduction of new chamberings, because this has in the past resulted in calibers we all love and enjoy. Are Winchester and Savage stupid? Not hardly. They have both been in business longer than I've been alive, and this could be a step toward their continued longevity.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUbE8USQU2s

    The other 299,300,000 people can have it.

    Noone has a more intimate understanding of, or deeper appreciation for freedom, than a soldier who has fought for it in a country where it does not exist.

  5. #5

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    the chambering and savage rifle were proposed quite a while before the current rimfire shortage (really not much of a shortage here in ohio anymore). I will certainly be buying one when the rifles start hitting the market... around here it will fit the bill just fine.

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    Member mainer_in_ak's Avatar
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    if anyone goes bananas over this cartridge, cookie monster eyes n all.......make sure to pm me if you might plan to shed some 22 magnums off the gun rack.

  7. #7

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    I will be keeping my .22 mag and my .22 as well... just dont think I will be using them much anymore

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  8. #8
    Member mainer_in_ak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKsoldier View Post
    Are Winchester and Savage stupid? Not hardly. They have both been in business longer than I've been alive, and this could be a step toward their continued longevity.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUbE8USQU2s
    winchester went out of business for a while, do you remember that?

    model 70's are now made in some far-away land....I think portugal?

    winchester lever actions are made in Japan, and sold for a price that no common man can afford......that's not what they used to be.

    if a guy wants to enjoy a lever action 92.......gotta go the rossi route nowadays.

    Savage dropped the model 99 off their line-up. I guess all those goofy little connecticut-"flat-landah" city kids can't build nothing but a bunch of injection-molded plastic pieces of sht. I told that to them in person at the sportsman show........

    I know that opinion might sound a bit harsh, but I love me a winchester lever rifle, and a winchester model 70. I love me a savage 99......get all giddy inside everytime I shoot one.

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    Member AKsoldier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mainer_in_ak View Post
    winchester went out of business for a while, do you remember that?

    model 70's are now made in some far-away land....I think portugal?

    winchester lever actions are made in Japan, and sold for a price that no common man can afford......that's not what they used to be.

    if a guy wants to enjoy a lever action 92.......gotta go the rossi route nowadays.

    Savage dropped the model 99 off their line-up. I guess all those goofy little connecticut-"flat-landah" city kids can't build nothing but a bunch of injection-molded plastic pieces of sht. I told that to them in person at the sportsman show........

    I know that opinion might sound a bit harsh, but I love me a winchester lever rifle, and a winchester model 70. I love me a savage 99......get all giddy inside everytime I shoot one.
    I won't argue with you on most of that. I have lusted after a Savage 99 for quite a while, and I'd love to have an older Win. model 70 (preferrably pre - 64.) Both are out of my budget for now though.

    As for Rossi - made in Brazil, and far worse in quality than anything that comes out of Turkey, Japan, Austria, Croatia - pretty much any other country than is currently in the gun making business.

    My point though, was I think we as shooters should encourage new caliber developments. If our ancestors hadn't done so, we'd all still be using hand - made bows and arrows to put meat on the table.

    The other 299,300,000 people can have it.

    Noone has a more intimate understanding of, or deeper appreciation for freedom, than a soldier who has fought for it in a country where it does not exist.

  10. #10
    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    Mike Winchester ammo and guns are two different outfits now,ammo is still the old Winchester. In Wrangell we have zero 22lr or mag but the shelves are still full of the old 17HMR stock,just not popular here.
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

  11. #11
    Member mainer_in_ak's Avatar
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    Speakin of what you "lust" over. I just handled a pre-64 winchester model 70 carbine. It was a full custom with a 20" barrel chambered in 9.3x62 mauser. It was a gift to the old man who owned it, from one of his friends, he was tickled pink about that rifle. wow.....what a gun that was.

    I handled a rossi 92 in 45 colt. I can tell you this thing was built great. Fairly smooth cycling for a 500 dollar gun. I could find nothing objectionable mechanically.....the stock finish was a bit unsightly.

    I like new rifle cartridge introductions too.

    Got all giddy about that 260 remington, the 338 federal, the 338 ruger compact mag, 338-06 when that became avail, 35 whelen back in the 80's, and finally....the 9.3x66 sako......ooooooweeee!

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    Member hodgeman's Avatar
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    I love messing with new cartridge developments- I have a real affinity for the .300 and .325WSM and think the .338 Federal is one of the coolest things to come out in a while. I'm also genuinely peeved that the .370Sako/ 9.3x66 isn't available in darn near anything.

    The problem with new cartridge developments are a couple- 1) as a group, American shooters are overly impressed with velocity- the .17WSM is still a 20gr bullet and no matter how fast you zip it, it's still a small varmint cartridge. Not a fur cartridge... and 2) the really practical rifle cartridges we have are an embarrasment of riches, just dozens of really suitable rounds for the game we hunt- hard to make a case for anything really new from .243 to .358 bores and plenty we could do without in the middle of that too.

    When your primary product is intended to last generations, your only recourse for market growth is to make the consumer unhappy with what he's already got.
    "I do not deal in hypotheticals. The world, as it is, is vexing enough..." Col. Stonehill, True Grit

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    Member ADUKHNT's Avatar
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    When I think "Magnum" I do not think of a .17 Cal bullet....however I do love WSM's That thing should dump yotes like no tomorrow if it is what they say it is.....
    I have such a hard time trying to decide which outdoor activity to do every chance I get!! Living in AK is a mental challenge

  14. #14
    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    All the new 30 cals sence the 50's should beat the pants off the old 300H&H but none do.
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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    Member AKsoldier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amigo Will View Post
    All the new 30 cals sence the 50's should beat the pants off the old 300H&H but none do.
    According to Ammo and Ballistics Fourth Edition, the .300 H&H pushes a 180 grain bullet to 2880 FPS. The .300 RSAUM adds almost 100 fps, the .300 WSM surpasses 3000 fps, the venerable .300 win mag cruises on by 3100 fps, the .300 Weatherby is knocking on the door of 3300 fps, and the .300 RUM is right there with the Weatherby. If you throw in wildcats, the .308 Lazzeroni Warbird pushes that same 180 grain pill to 3550 fps.

    I right there with ya on close range terminal performance, but you have to admit these other 30 cals extend the range quite a bit.

    The other 299,300,000 people can have it.

    Noone has a more intimate understanding of, or deeper appreciation for freedom, than a soldier who has fought for it in a country where it does not exist.

  16. #16
    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    My Speer book shows the H&H with 180gr at 3,000,308 Norma mag at 3,000, 300winmag 3,100, 300 wby 3,250. With the 200gr bullet all are with-in 150fps..Cost difference in shelf ammo from some to a whole lot. The 30-06 shows 2,750 for the 180 so at most hunting distance its smoke and mirrors.
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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    Member mainer_in_ak's Avatar
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    here's what savage does best:


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    Member AKsoldier's Avatar
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    I think Marlin needs to get in that game. Their XL 7 guns are out - shooting everything else available, in any price range.

    The other 299,300,000 people can have it.

    Noone has a more intimate understanding of, or deeper appreciation for freedom, than a soldier who has fought for it in a country where it does not exist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AKsoldier View Post
    I won't argue with you on most of that. I have lusted after a Savage 99 for quite a while, and I'd love to have an older Win. model 70 (preferrably pre - 64.) Both are out of my budget for now though.

    As for Rossi - made in Brazil, and far worse in quality than anything that comes out of Turkey, Japan, Austria, Croatia - pretty much any other country than is currently in the gun making business.

    My point though, was I think we as shooters should encourage new caliber developments. If our ancestors hadn't done so, we'd all still be using hand - made bows and arrows to put meat on the table.
    Apparently I must spread some reputation before I can give it to you again... Sorry.

  20. #20

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    how do you know they wont??? although I will probably buy a savage ( I don't want a Winchester single shot) I am also excited to see who else might jump in with this round

    Sent from my LG-LG855 using Tapatalk 2

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