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Thread: Student pilot insurance..

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    Member AKDoug's Avatar
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    Default Student pilot insurance..

    Does a flight instruction company normally require a student to carry liability and aircraft damage insurance when taking lessons in that company's aircraft with their instructor?
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    Member AK-HUNT's Avatar
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    Some do. I did some training at a place that did but that was in the 90's. Renters insurance with avemco I believe I had.

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    My insurance policy covers my students, me and anyone we hit...
    I have given primary instruction to some student pilots who owned their own planes. In some of those cases I had to be added to their policy.
    There are some folks who are running training outfits up here who do not have ANY insurance. They will BS you by saying they are self insured...
    But they are not....
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    Doug,

    I'm not sure how flight schools deal with insurance up there as AK is a different animal in the underwriter's eyes, but in the lower 48, flight schools, FBOs generally carry insurance that covers liability, the hull value of the airplane, and to a limited extent, the student.

    If you're going to use a flight school's planes, read their policy VERY carefully. You'll find most these days tell you the student is insured, but in reality it covers the FBO, not the student/pilot. There are some FBOs that will tell you up front that their insurance only covers liability, the hull, and FBO. Any litigation brought against the pilot is up to him or her to deal with. if that's the case,m there;'s several brokers/underwriters that offer "non-Owned Aircraft" policys that you can decide on how much you want to be covered.

    I know when I instruct in someone else's airplane, I require them to have me a named insured on their policy to avoid any ambiguity should something happen. The "open pilot clause" is broad and open to a lot of interpretation by lawyers.

    Complicated, but hope it helps.

    Mike-

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    Quote Originally Posted by AKDoug View Post
    Does a flight instruction company normally require a student to carry liability and aircraft damage insurance when taking lessons in that company's aircraft with their instructor?
    Since a student pilot is yet unlicensed, the instructor is the Pilot in Command. It is he - - - or she - - - along with the flight school or FBO that is to carry any required coverage. That coverage, however, won't protect you after you have earned your private license and continue to rent aircraft. Renters' insurance will then be a very, very good idea.

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    I had an unfortunate experience on one of my early solo flights as a student pilot. I mushed a Piper Colt into the runway. The flight school said I damaged the aircraft significantly, and went against my renter's policy. The school required those policies. The school policies may not cover you in the event of a loss. In fact, the insurance company that covers a loss may have a right to sue you to recover what they paid, if you are not the insured under the policy, under a concept called subrogation. This right will vary from state to state, and if you want accurate information for the states you fly in, you should talk to attorneys admitted to practice in those states.

    I would also point out that when you go to court, the common law standard, if it applies (again talk to an admitted attorney), is not "are you the pilot in command," but rather did you do or fail to do something that a reasonable person would not have done or omitted, and was the act or omission the proximate cause of harm to someone else or someone else's property. A student pilot not in command could be negligent under that standard. OTOH, when liability insurance policies are mandatory or widespread, there is a greater incentive for others to sue you.

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    Member AKDoug's Avatar
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    Since it appears to exist and the instructor is wanting it, it looks like I need to find coverage for my 16 y.o. son. Anybody know of a good place to contact?
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    I had relatively good luck with Avemco

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    Same, Avemco. I used them when I was a newbie, left for a couple of other underwriters who came and left the Alaska market, and have been back with Avemco for many years. Falcon is another popular choice among Alaskans. You'll find that not all aviation insurers will write policies in Alaska so do some checking with a broker you trust. Avemco is a direct source, no brokers. Go shopping for what fits your needs.

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    Doug,

    Depending on who the kid's flying with, just ask to read their policy to see if he's (and your assets siince he's a minor) are covered when he's solo. Otherwise a non-owned policy might offer some piece of mind. I can't access it here (in Afghanistan), but I use Tom Johnson at Air Power Insurance (Broker), but he's great and has gotten me better rates than even Avemco.

    Mike-

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    Keep in mind the adage, never ask the barber whether you need a haircut, but the stuff on the link, written by an Avemco guy, seems worth reading: http://www.avweb.com/news/insure/ren..._194956-1.html

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    Just in case you think I am a stooge for Avemco, here is a page from a local flight school, with what appear to be two different sources of renters' insurance, one from AOPA, and one from some broker that offers an AOPA discount. The might be the same policy: http://www.chesapeakesportpilot.com/pages/insurance.asp

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    I think every flight school is different. When I was a student at Land and Sea, their policy covered liability and damage to the plane while flying with their instructor. However before I soloed I needed to get renter's insurance or prove that I could cover the $5,000 deductible for their policy. Talk to your flight school and get a written copy of their insurance requirements. If their insurance is in doubt, it is always better to have a renter's policy to protect you. I don't think there is a way for you to know if the flight school has canceled their policy.
    Patrick

  14. #14

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    I use avemco, they allow you to insure 3 months at a time, Falcon will make you do a full year and I don't need my particular plane insured that long for full hull. I am very happy with Avemco and how flexable they are for low time private pilots and seasonal pilots who don't fly in the winter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rppearso View Post
    I use avemco, they allow you to insure 3 months at a time, Falcon will make you do a full year and I don't need my particular plane insured that long for full hull. I am very happy with Avemco and how flexable they are for low time private pilots and seasonal pilots who don't fly in the winter.
    You still don't mention liability coverages . . . . . Do you carry that as well?

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    Avemco allows me to change my coverage from normal to "not in motion". In the latter the airplane is still fully insured but the rate is adjusted for the reduced risk.

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    Been with Avemco for many years and have been happy with them. Last winter I pickled and hangared 2 planes and saved a lot.

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grizzly 2 View Post
    You still don't mention liability coverages . . . . . Do you carry that as well?
    If you have hull it automatically comes with liability with avemco, so yes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Pid View Post
    Avemco allows me to change my coverage from normal to "not in motion". In the latter the airplane is still fully insured but the rate is adjusted for the reduced risk.
    That is what I will do when I put it away for the winter, this summer I will only be flying till early sept and will only have one quarter of coverage. Hopefully next summer will get lucky and get a full 6 months in but that's hard to do when its snowing in late May. IF I can get them to do a month to month I might fly through sept into early oct.

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    Mine is through London Aviation Underwriters ( via Falcon ) They are not very open minded about certain things..

    I have had AVEMCO in the past, they were OK, but they did not offer a policy that covered what I am doing.

    Years ago there was an outfit called National Aviation Underwriters or something like that... They were fairly inexpensive and good to work with. I believe they were bought out by Avemco.
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