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Thread: DLP Cow Moose Denali N.P.

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    Member cdubbin's Avatar
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    " Gas boats are bad enough, autos are an invention of the devil, and airplanes are worse." ~Allen Hasselborg

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    Member Matt83's Avatar
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    Already the hand wringers are typing up all kinds of comments on this story, especially on adn, no surprise there.
    "The man who reads nothing at all is better educated than the man who reads nothing but newspapers."
    Thomas Jefferson

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    Member sayak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt83 View Post
    Already the hand wringers are typing up all kinds of comments on this story, especially on adn, no surprise there.
    Ha ha! "Hand wringers"... so descriptive and so accurate.
    I gave up on all things ADN some time ago. Ain't got no time for that fish wrapper.

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    Member cdubbin's Avatar
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    Yeah....lots of folks don't realize that a moose can kill you just as dead as a bear can, just as fast....I've been charged by em quite a few times, once in Denali park. Calving time and the rut are the two worst times to run into cows on the trail.....surprise encounters/dogs, etc. just exacerbate the situation. Wish people wouldn't rush to judge this fella so quick....but by the time the investigation concludes, most will have moved their outrage on down the road.....
    " Gas boats are bad enough, autos are an invention of the devil, and airplanes are worse." ~Allen Hasselborg

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    Member Mkay's Avatar
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    Should of used "Moose Spray".
    My child was inmate of the month at Mat-Su pre-trial Correctional facility.

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    I'm going to play devil's advocate here and suggest that some tourists are relying on guns rather than learning how to travel safely on Alaska trails. I don't know what happened in this case but we've seen a few people from the lesser 48 show up on AOD asking whether they're carrying enough iron rather than asking how to stay safe in bear country or asking how to tell if a bear means business. I have guns and I carry them, but sometimes these tourists just seem kind of undereducated and overarmed. That is to say that in some cases they seem to figure that if they're heavily armed they don't need to learn how to avoid a confrontation in the first place.
    Mushing Tech: squeezing the romance out of dog mushing one post at a time

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    Quote Originally Posted by mlshore View Post
    I'm going to play devil's advocate here and suggest that some tourists are relying on guns rather than learning how to travel safely on Alaska trails. I don't know what happened in this case but we've seen a few people from the lesser 48 show up on AOD asking whether they're carrying enough iron rather than asking how to stay safe in bear country or asking how to tell if a bear means business. I have guns and I carry them, but sometimes these tourists just seem kind of undereducated and overarmed. That is to say that in some cases they seem to figure that if they're heavily armed they don't need to learn how to avoid a confrontation in the first place.
    K so you're walking along with your family and a mad momma moose charges and you got no cover? Come on! What would you have done! Moose are 3 steps away from being there in AK. Rant over!

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    Quote Originally Posted by TundraT View Post
    K so you're walking along with your family and a mad momma moose charges and you got no cover? Come on! What would you have done! Moose are 3 steps away from being there in AK. Rant over!
    I know - I was fishing on the Chena this morning and there were tiny moose tracks all over the place. I behaved like a grownup and made a point to make a lot of noise, stay in the open, and avoid a run-in with a pissed-off momma moose. Sometimes a confrontation is unavoidable (moose and dog teams - bad stuff happens) but sometimes it's not unavoidable ​if you know what you're doing.
    Mushing Tech: squeezing the romance out of dog mushing one post at a time

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    Quote Originally Posted by mlshore View Post
    I know - I was fishing on the Chena this morning and there were tiny moose tracks all over the place. I behaved like a grownup and made a point to make a lot of noise, stay in the open, and avoid a run-in with a pissed-off momma moose. Sometimes a confrontation is unavoidable (moose and dog teams - bad stuff happens) but sometimes it's not unavoidable ​if you know what you're doing.
    Gee didn't see that coming. Predict the unpredictable.Good job.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mlshore View Post
    ...... Sometimes a confrontation is unavoidable (moose and dog teams - bad stuff happens) but sometimes it's not unavoidable ​if you know what you're doing.
    Not everybody can know themselves out of things that are sometimes unavoidable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brain View Post
    Not everybody can know themselves out of things that are sometimes unavoidable.
    Absolutely, and this probably was a legitimate DLP. But I have been struck by the tourists who are more interested in finding out whether or not their guns can take down a brownie than they are in how to avoid having to use those guns. This guy who shot the moose - was he aware that there are moose cows with babies on the trails now, and that they can be a little surly? There was an entirely avoidable situation at UAF a few years ago when some kid from Colorado ran into a moose and thought he could scare it off by yelling and waving his arms, and instead the moose chased him up a tree. He called 911 and the campus cops came and shot the moose. People don't always know the right thing to do.
    Mushing Tech: squeezing the romance out of dog mushing one post at a time

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    Member .300wby's Avatar
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    More "hot spot" hunts!

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    I think mlshore is refering to that little bit of caution us as long time Alaskans have when it comes to cow moose this time of year. Just this weekend, my wife and I decided to turn around an call it a day after getting a glimpse of what might have been a calf moving thru the brush ahead of us. We knew what it was, what it meant, and what to do, turn around. No sense in tempting fate..of course we were unarmed at the time...doh!!! Turns out, an armed investigation of the tracks later showed me that we were correct, it was a calf...

    Alot of tourists or people new to Alaska forget or are ignorant of the fact that we have animals that can kill you if your walking with your eyes planted on your feet. I'm glad this guy had a weapon to protect his family, was allowed to carry it in the park, and did what he did. MAYBE...but who really knows...if there had been someone with them who would have recognized the potential before they ran face to face into it, they could have avoided it. NOT saying that is the case, just speaking in general.

    I know guys who hike hundreds of miles a year in Alaska and wont carry a weapon. Maybe their number comes up, but until then they are smart enough to recognize danger and avoid it. JM 2c

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by dkwarthog View Post
    I think mlshore is refering to that little bit of caution us as long time Alaskans have when it comes to cow moose this time of year. Just this weekend, my wife and I decided to turn around an call it a day after getting a glimpse of what might have been a calf moving thru the brush ahead of us. We knew what it was, what it meant, and what to do, turn around. No sense in tempting fate..of course we were unarmed at the time...doh!!! Turns out, an armed investigation of the tracks later showed me that we were correct, it was a calf...
    Your armed investigation later might easily have ended the way the DLP shooting in the park ended. I wouldn't have gone back.

    My closest, unpleasant encounters with moose have mostly been unexpected meetings on nice, packed snowmobile trails in thick woods where bailing from the trail wasn't possible, and with a moose angered by previous snowmobilers. I doubt the previous snowmobilers were tourists.

    I was attacked by a pair of cow moose (no calves......it was in April) at the entrance of Mt. McKinley National Park (yes, it was that long ago) while in my car. Not a soul around, too. I can attest that moose have a clear size and strength advantage over 1968 Volkswagen Beetles. The car was destroyed.

    My experience with disaster and near death (as recently as this past November) has taught me that it comes like a thief in the night: if you think you can predict it, you will one day be very unpleasantly surprised.

    ....I'm glad this guy had a weapon to protect his family, was allowed to carry it in the park, and did what he did. MAYBE...but who really knows...if there had been someone with them who would have recognized the potential before they ran face to face into it, they could have avoided it. NOT saying that is the case, just speaking in general.....
    On all that I am in 100% agreement.

    But in no way will I second guess what happened like is done each and every time a DLP shooting is widely publicized in the newspapers. A review of the comments on the ADN story is downright depressing. People can be incredibly arrogant, and they simply don't care that it's so painfully apparent. They just do it anyway.

    Especially after reading about the recent fatal bear mauling, I'm extremely glad I'm not also reading about a couple of kids being stomped by a moose right in the populated urban area of Denali National Park.

    On a side note, isn't the story about the blind brown bear sow at Kasilof an interesting story? The dad fended the bear off with his spotting scope and the authorities shot the bear (as if that is somehow more acceptable). Maybe we should all be carrying defensive spotting scopes around in order to please those who don't like DLP shootings?

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    Member dkwarthog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brain View Post
    Your armed investigation later might easily have ended the way the DLP shooting in the park ended. I wouldn't have gone back.

    Yes, in general I agree, but this happened to be very near my home and the next day I went back to "clear" the area before the kids ran amok...

    My closest, unpleasant encounters with moose have mostly been unexpected meetings on nice, packed snowmobile trails in thick woods where bailing from the trail wasn't possible, and with a moose angered by previous snowmobilers. I doubt the previous snowmobilers were tourists.

    The worst moose experiences I have had were with dog teams and on snowmachines. Something about barking dogs and buzzing machines on packed trails really ticks them off.

    I was attacked by a pair of cow moose (no calves......it was in April) at the entrance of Mt. McKinley National Park (yes, it was that long ago) while in my car. Not a soul around, too. I can attest that moose have a clear size and strength advantage over 1968 Volkswagen Beetles. The car was destroyed.

    I had a cow moose jump OVER the hood of my car a couple of winters ago. Came around a blind corner and there it was...so yep, it can happen without a heads up..

    My experience with disaster and near death (as recently as this past November) has taught me that it comes like a thief in the night: if you think you can predict it, you will one day be very unpleasantly surprised.

    No arguments there for sure...



    But in no way will I second guess what happened like is done each and every time a DLP shooting is widely publicized in the newspapers. A review of the comments on the ADN story is downright depressing. People can be incredibly arrogant, and they simply don't care that it's so painfully apparent. They just do it anyway.

    I stopped reading the comments in ADN. People are indeed pretty pathetic and misguided sometimes.. Matter of fact I havent read an ADN article in a long time...

    On a side note, isn't the story about the blind brown bear sow at Kasilof an interesting story? The dad fended the bear off with his spotting scope and the authorities shot the bear (as if that is somehow more acceptable). Maybe we should all be carrying defensive spotting scopes around in order to please those who don't like DLP shootings?

    Is a spotting scope an appropriate weapon? No....did it work in this instance? Yep.....Guess his number just was not up yet...not much else you can say about that.

    I'd rather be lucky than good anyday...
    ..........

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by dkwarthog View Post
    ..........Something about barking dogs and buzzing machines on packed trails really ticks them off.
    I truly believe that the attack on my Volkswagen Beetle was like your snowmobile comment. Obviously the shape of a "bug" was noticeably different than most automobiles of the era, but I think it was the sound of the thing that they didn't like............especially the horn when I beeped it to try to get them out of the road. They did a very remarkable dance on that poor little car.............

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    Member Bsj425's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlshore View Post
    I'm going to play devil's advocate here and suggest that some tourists are relying on guns rather than learning how to travel safely on Alaska trails. I don't know what happened in this case but we've seen a few people from the lesser 48 show up on AOD asking whether they're carrying enough iron rather than asking how to stay safe in bear country or asking how to tell if a bear means business. I have guns and I carry them, but sometimes these tourists just seem kind of undereducated and overarmed. That is to say that in some cases they seem to figure that if they're heavily armed they don't need to learn how to avoid a confrontation in the first place.
    The article in the news miner says that these "tourists" were from Alaska... Not everyone that visits denali is a "tourist" I spent a few days there last week enjoying the sights.

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    There is a very graphic video that was played by KTUU news the night it happened, sometime in the 90's. It shows an elderly gentleman on the UAA campus being trampled to death by an angry cow moose. This Alaskan knows to be very cautious around moose, and understand their body language and respond appropriately.

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    Member willphish4food's Avatar
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    Quick breakdown of body language; hackles up, ears down... .BAD! Hackles down, ears up, GOOD. First moose angry/defensive posture, second moose alert/curious posture.

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by willphish4food View Post
    Quick breakdown of body language; hackles up, ears down... .BAD! .....
    Warning: hackles may rise and ears lower simultaneous with full on attack.

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