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Thread: Selective fishing comes to Cook Inlet....

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    Member fishNphysician's Avatar
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    Default Selective fishing comes to Cook Inlet....

    Oh the times, they are a'changin'

    http://peninsulaclarion.com/opinion/...nook-chute-out

    Go Johnson!
    "Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." Zane Grey
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    Thumbs down More propaganda . . .

    Not true . . .


    "Selective fishing" has always been part of Cook Inlet's harvest of its mixed-stock fishery.


    Brent Johnson's efforts are simply an effort to further refine the process in response to the state-wide decline in chinook returns.


    Now if we could only get the Catch-and-Release, in-river, sportfishing folks to figure out a way to lessen or eliminate their continued stress on the spawning kings and eliminate the mortality associated with their fishing-for-thrills, the poor fish would have an even better chance of survival.

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    This is very much just an idea at this point. Has not been tested - anywhere. Nothing wrong with trying to find a way to harvest higher quality fish - which is what this is all about.

    What do you think those Kings will look like after being caught and released from one trap after another up 60 miles of beach? Oh, that's right, we don't study the effects of multiple C&R hookups here on the Kenai

    Maybe we should just have one giant trap and all the fishermen could split the proceeds... Oh, wait I've heard that somewhere before... I think somebody wrote a report on it about the same time as the last C&R mortality study...

    Suppose that these "SHM's" do work even fairly well - suppose they cut EESN king harvest in half. Doc, you're not happy with the 13% of Kenai LR Kings that setnets catch now even though it has absolutely nothing to do with current low abundance. Why should we think you or you buddies would be ok with 6%? Given that there are absolutely no limits on the inriver fishery or the potential harvest or habitat destruction it can bring, why should we assume that eliminating setnets will solve anything at all?

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    Quote Originally Posted by smithtb View Post
    Suppose that these "SHM's" do work even fairly well - suppose they cut EESN king harvest in half. Doc, you're not happy with the 13% of Kenai LR Kings that setnets catch now even though it has absolutely nothing to do with current low abundance. Why should we think you or you buddies would be ok with 6%? Given that there are absolutely no limits on the inriver fishery or the potential harvest or habitat destruction it can bring, why should we assume that eliminating setnets will solve anything at all?

    Doc's just making a funny here—his "Selective fishing" is nothing new in Cook Inlet.


    This is just another and the latest propaganda in a relentless and perennial effort to smear Cook Inlet's gill-net industry and their harvest of CI's mixed-stock fishery.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smithtb View Post
    This is very much just an idea at this point. Has not been tested - anywhere. Nothing wrong with trying to find a way to harvest higher quality fish - which is what this is all about.
    Yes, in Cook Inlet, just an idea.... and one whose time has finally come. Glad to see ideas being put into action, even at a preliminary investigative level.

    Selective fishing started as "just an idea" here in the PNW, but it has become standard operating procedure... first in the rec fishery, and incrementally more so in the commercial fishery. The Confederated Colville Tribes were the first to to successfully implement selective seining in the Columbia River. It completely re-vitalized their fishery in ways NO ONE could imagine. The WDFW was not far behind them in the lower Columbia as they set out to test alternative gear that was more fish friendly. Live capture and sorting of NON-target species is the key! They are currently poised to go full fleet with a selective commercial fishery. This past January the WA Fish Wildlife Commission voted to ban the use of NON-selective gillnets in the mainstem Columbia for the state commercial fishery.... the four year transition to no gillnets will be complete in 2017. Oregon is currently in the process of legislation to legalize alternative gears for its commercial fishery.

    Selective fishing IS the wave of the future. The choice is clear... ride the wave or be prepared to get swamped.
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    4mer guide....the mortality and stress associated with C&R must be discussed and allocated if anyone wants to be fair and get workable solutions. No C&R beyond a 1 mile area near the river mouth.

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    Red face How they try to do it in the PNW . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by fishNphysician View Post
    Yes, in Cook Inlet, just an idea.... and one whose time has finally come. Glad to see ideas being put into action, even at a preliminary investigative level.

    Selective fishing started as "just an idea" here in the PNW, but it has become standard operating procedure... first in the rec fishery, and incrementally more so in the commercial fishery. The Confederated Colville Tribes were the first to to successfully implement selective seining in the Columbia River. It completely re-vitalized their fishery in ways NO ONE could imagine. The WDFW was not far behind them in the lower Columbia as they set out to test alternative gear that was more fish friendly. Live capture and sorting of NON-target species is the key! They are currently poised to go full fleet with a selective commercial fishery. This past January the WA Fish Wildlife Commission voted to ban the use of NON-selective gillnets in the mainstem Columbia for the state commercial fishery.... the four year transition to no gillnets will be complete in 2017. Oregon is currently in the process of legislation to legalize alternative gears for its commercial fishery.

    Selective fishing IS the wave of the future. The choice is clear... ride the wave or be prepared to get swamped.



    Selective fishing is already a part of the harvest of Alaska's and Cook Inlet's mixed-stock fisheries and has been for decades. Some parts of the country are trying to match Alaska's policy successes.


    Fish traps are constitutionally outlawed in Alaska.


    Alaska is not the already-swamped, trying-to-recover Pacific Northwest, the Columbia River, Oregon, California, or Washington.




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    Quote Originally Posted by Akbrownsfan View Post
    4mer guide....the mortality and stress associated with C&R must be discussed
    And it can via another thread. This thread is about:

    Selective Harvest Modules (SHMs) as a method for setnetters to exclude king salmon from their harvest.
    ......
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    No doubt Doc is prescribing us with yet another dose of his Kool-Aid...all relating to his continual C&R mantra.

    Doc, where have you been? The Early Run set net sockeye fishery was closed decades ago in lieu of selectivity entirely for in-River Chinook. You don't get any more of a "selective fishery" than that. A shut-down of one fishery for another is complete selectivity...100% release with zero mortality...the set netters can't even fish! Not to mention there have been decades of exponentially increasing restrictions on the set net fishery, all in the name of selective in-River Chinook sportfishing, including your C&R facade.

    Also, selective harvesting methods are nothing new here. Set netters have been manually releasing Kings for a long time. When I fished set nets (some of those closest to the mouth of the Kenai), we released our Kings unharmed (usually they just rolled up in the net or were tooth-hooked). We were after the more valued sockeye, and knew getting Kings into the River would keep us open. We always put enough Kings in the River to sustain them. Unfortunately those Kings just got exploited by the in-River sportfishery anyway, including your own C&R killing fetish.

    Doc, selective set net harvest doesn't mean crap if you continue to kill them in-River. That includes C&R, which on the Kenai River is really Catch & Kill. The Early Run is an example of that...decimated by sportfishing (as we speak).

    Remember Grasshopper, this is a volunteer effort by the set netters. I believe it is a smart move that will expose the fact that no matter how many Kings the set netters put in the River, they will be decimated by sportfishing (including C&R). It puts the onus back on the real problem; in-river exploitation, false monikers of "C&R" (not a true C&R fishery at all), and do-good facades paraded by groups like KRSA...just like we see with the Early Run.

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    First off, I say kudos to Mr. Johnson for at least going through the hard work of getting the permit and trying something different. He makes a lot of valid points in the article imo.

    But the thing is, it's gonna be impossible imo to come up with any real scientific data on these two SHMs, and setnetters can't always just fish flood tides. Sure, efficiency data can be acquired for this operation, comparing the catch of the regular nets and the SHMs fished at the same time (though if he fishes during closures that goes out the window), but how can we measure any stress on the released kings, how it affects spawning etc. He did invite the public to come out and view, would like to hear how it works as far as releasing only kings during fishing openings.

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    Amazing.....at least one person that can relate to the topic at hand...!!!
    Sheep hunting...... the pain goes away, but the stupidity remains...!!!

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    Thumbs up Very good point . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by bushrat View Post
    . . but how can we measure any stress on the released kings, how it affects spawning . .

    Really good point, Mark, thanks for bringing it up . .


    How the stress of being caught and released by any means affects spawning is a big, open question that desperately needs to be answered.



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    Anybody know what this gear looks like & how it works? Some kind of a fish trap set up?

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    Lightbulb The topic at hand . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by 4merguide View Post
    . . the topic at hand...!!!

    The topic at hand is an article in the online edition of the Peninsula Clarion.


    The online article, which includes a comment section, mentions C&R twice.


    As has been noted above and in keeping with the Clarion article mentioned in the OP, the effects on spawning of being caught and released by any means is an unknown factor that, in the face of critical declines in chinook returns, needs to be known and factored into any efforts directed at remediation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fishNphysician View Post
    Yes, in Cook Inlet, just an idea.... and one whose time has finally come. Glad to see ideas being put into action, even at a preliminary investigative level.

    Selective fishing started as "just an idea" here in the PNW, but it has become standard operating procedure... first in the rec fishery, and incrementally more so in the commercial fishery. The Confederated Colville Tribes were the first to to successfully implement selective seining in the Columbia River. It completely re-vitalized their fishery in ways NO ONE could imagine. The WDFW was not far behind them in the lower Columbia as they set out to test alternative gear that was more fish friendly. Live capture and sorting of NON-target species is the key! They are currently poised to go full fleet with a selective commercial fishery. This past January the WA Fish Wildlife Commission voted to ban the use of NON-selective gillnets in the mainstem Columbia for the state commercial fishery.... the four year transition to no gillnets will be complete in 2017. Oregon is currently in the process of legislation to legalize alternative gears for its commercial fishery.

    Selective fishing IS the wave of the future. The choice is clear... ride the wave or be prepared to get swamped.
    I get it. You ruined your rivers, and selective fishing is now the only thing that works. Rather than help us not ruin ours, you would rather prescribe the solution for us and just watch it happen. Sorry, I'll take Alaska's salmon fishery over your state's. Gillnetting works very well when we have the healthy hatchery of mother nature.

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    From ACR 14 of the Oct 9-11, 2012 Alaska Board of Fisheries Work Session in Anchorage...


    Allow a selective gear comprised of a seine lead that directs salmon into a live box be used by a set gillnet permit holder in the waters along the east coast in the Central District in the Cook Inlet Area, including gear specifications and operations standards. (5 AAC 21.220(b)(3)(C))

    The Board will amend the regulation: 5 AAC 21.330(b) Set gillnets or Selective Harvest Modules may be used only in the following locations: (3) Central District (C) waters along the east coast in the Central District.

    Selective Harvest Module (SHM) means seine leads directing salmon to a live box. Design would incorporate features of reef nets and floating traps. Seine lead ends would be limited to 210 feet apart, the same as setnets. Each SHM would require a permit approved by F&G. The design is not specifically herein defined because flexibility is needed to develop a method that will accomplish the goal of retaining sockeye and releasing kings. F&G would need to approve plans submitted to them and also do a physical inspection of the constructed SHM. Construction would likely cost the applicant several thousand dollars and it is therefore unlikely that a flood of SHMs would appear in 2013. A Limited Entry Setnet Permit would be required for fishing the SHM. Their use would be optional. Setnets could be fished simultaneous with setnets, except each SHM would be considered one 35 fathom net, thus a fisher would reduce the amount of setnet used proportionate to the number of SHMs used.
    If Brent Johnson got the reg change that was asked for, that means that any setnet site in east central may use an SHM by following the loosely defined gear regulation above. There is no exact design of the gear, because it is still under development. Sounds to me that the plan is to place a couple walls of seine net to direct all the fish into a "live box". The live box would have to be tended by the fisherman to release the kings and harvest the sockeye.

    I didn't notice directions to his fishing site being posted in the article. If he's invited the public to come see it, I'd like to know where I'm going to take a look.
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    Harvest reform is what the state appears to be encouraging.... and allowing stakeholders to be active in the process of figuring out what will work best in the real-life on-the-water proving grounds.

    Allow a selective gear comprised of a seine lead that directs salmon into a live box be used by a set gillnet permit holder in the waters along the east coast in the Central District in the Cook Inlet Area, including gear specifications and operations standards. (5 AAC 21.220(b)(3)(C))

    The Board will amend the regulation: 5 AAC 21.330(b) Set gillnets or Selective Harvest Modules may be used only in the following locations: (3) Central District (C) waters along the east coast in the Central District.

    Selective Harvest Module (SHM) means seine leads directing salmon to a live box. Design would incorporate features of reef nets and floating traps. Seine lead ends would be limited to 210 feet apart, the same as setnets. Each SHM would require a permit approved by F&G.
    The design is not specifically herein defined because flexibility is needed to develop a method that will accomplish the goal of retaining sockeye and releasing kings. F&G would need to approve plans submitted to them and also do a physical inspection of the constructed SHM. Construction would likely cost the applicant several thousand dollars and it is therefore unlikely that a flood of SHMs would appear in 2013. A Limited Entry Setnet Permit would be required for fishing the SHM. Their use would be optional. SHM's could be fished simultaneous with setnets, except each SHM would be considered one 35 fathom net, thus a fisher would reduce the amount of setnet used proportionate to the number of SHMs used.

    As in every other sector of modern industry, innovation will be amply rewarded. I see this situation as being no exception once the right innovators come up with the best mouse... errr fish.... trap.
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    Thumbs down Continued killing . . ?

    Quote Originally Posted by fishNphysician View Post
    . . I see this situation as being no exception once the right innovators come up with the best mouse... errr fish.... trap.

    Which—if fish traps is what they really are—are constitutionally outlawed by the state of Alaska.


    No, this is an effort by a responsible member of the ESSN community to speak to the alarming decline in state-wide decline in chinook returns.


    Now if we could only get those few sport anglers who continue to inflict an eight percent, catch-and-release mortality rate on the fish that do manage to return, we'd be doing even better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcus View Post

    The topic at hand is an article in the online edition of the Peninsula Clarion.
    I know...........I read the article that Doc linked. The comments are just that....comments. Opinions just like any other forum. They are entirely separate from the article. Which is exactly the same thing you have done here by bringing sport fishing C&R into the discussion. The way I see it, any mention IN THE ARTICLE of C&R, was totally related to the set netters.

    Understand.....we are on the same side here. I just believe that in this thread any mention of "sport fishing" C&R is not pertinent.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4merguide View Post
    Understand.....we are on the same side here. I just believe that in this thread any mention of "sport fishing" C&R is not pertinent.

    That we're on the same side is good to hear.


    Understand, however, that I disagree. To my mind, the relationship of C&R, in all its aspects, is very pertinent to the discussion of selective fishing, the current decline in size and numbers of chinook salmon, and our efforts to remedy the situation.


    Thanks . . .

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