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Thread: Ruger question

  1. #1
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    Default Ruger question

    I have a 4" Blackhawk in 44 mag that I can't get to shoot 300gr or bigger rounds with any consistency. If I drop down to a 240gr load I can group under an inch at 20 yards fine. I was hoping to get the same out of a heavier round. I'm relatively new to hand-gunning so idk if its just me or not. Am I expecting to much out of a factory loaded "buffalo bore" round. All so they seem to drop down and fly left if that helps. Best groups are around 5" or so.

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    Member Akheloce's Avatar
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    Reaming the cylinder throats seem to increase accuracy most on the heavy bullets.
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    Good to know where do I have that done?

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    Member Akheloce's Avatar
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    There's a guy online called cylindersmith, or Brownells sells the reamer for DIY. It's pretty easy.
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    On my revolvers I pick one cylinder and remove all oil then put a dot of red fingernail polish near the rim on the cylinder. Then test loads in only that one cylinder. Shoot five from one cylinder.

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    I will look into the DIY. Thanks

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    What are u looking for with your testing?

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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    I'm guessing the BB leaves the bore faster making it shoot low.Also guessing you are using two hands annd pulling extra with your left hand to counter the known extra recoil. To check my guess at random load two hot rounds two of the lighter rounds and two empty chambers and feel what happens.
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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    Good call I have a few 44sp rounds I will toss in and test my self.

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    Barrel is too short to reach the velocity needed for the big boolit stability. Get over it, you are out of twist range. You can't burn enough slow powder. Notice how little twist is in the barrel when you look down it. Shorter will have almost no twist at all but some say it is the same twist, get off my back! It will be almost a straight groove in a short barrel. RPM's come from velocity and time in the barrel to spin up.
    A 1 in 20" in a 20" barrel needs less velocity, a 10" barrel needs more and as you go shorter, you need faster and faster that you can't reach.
    Get to 1" and it is just a smooth bore. Twist is not a constant with barrel length and velocity.

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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    My Ruger alaskan spins bullets just fine as does my SP101 and 12ga. rifled choke tube.
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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    Left and low, as pointed out above is -often- recoil anticipation.

    Try shooting off a rest, or even better find the old grumpy wheelgunner at your range and ask him to shoot a group off a rest.

    The other cheap/ easy is to measure the diameters of the 240gr bullet that groups well and the 300+gr bullet that doesn't. It could be those two diameters are different, as in different enough.

    .44magnum is lots of gun even for experienced shooters. You might want to find a .22LR stable mate for that beast if you can find some .22LR ammunition.

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    Sponsor ADfields's Avatar
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    BFR your theory is unsound. If there is a bullet bearing surface length of rifling a properly sized bullet will spin up to rpm just fine, even with a heavy, soft, round ball in a front stuffer will spin right up. To fully stabilize it, to take any non concentric wobble out takes just 2Ē at most. A properly sized bullet will immediately swedge into the rifling and turn with them like driving a 14mm socket onto a 9/16Ē nut . . . Itís mechanically engaging like two gears, ainít no slipping there at all.
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    You do get more velocity from longer barrels and the faster you push the bullet through a given twist rate the more RPMs it will get but the rate, number of turns per distance traveled is definitely linier and fixed no matter the barrel length.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADfields View Post
    BFR your theory is unsound. If there is a bullet bearing surface length of rifling a properly sized bullet will spin up to rpm just fine, even with a heavy, soft, round ball in a front stuffer will spin right up. To fully stabilize it, to take any non concentric wobble out takes just 2Ē at most. A properly sized bullet will immediately swedge into the rifling and turn with them like driving a 14mm socket onto a 9/16Ē nut . . . Itís mechanically engaging like two gears, ainít no slipping there at all. You do get more velocity from longer barrels and the faster you push the bullet through a given twist rate the more RPMs it will get but the rate, number of turns per distance traveled is definitely linier and fixed no matter the barrel length.
    It is what I said, not enough velocity reached to have the rifling take affect. Spin is velocity dependent.
    The loss of 50 to 100 fps in the shorter barrel is enough to ruin accuracy.
    Take a rifle, 1 in 10" twist. The bullet at 1000 fps will revolve 1200 times per second or 72,000 rpm's. Take it to 3000 fps and spin goes to 216,000 rpm's.
    The difference between a heavy boolit stability at 1350 fps to 1000 fps is about 12,600 rpm's. Shorten a barrel to 900 fps and the difference is 16,200 rpm's.
    The boolit breaks loose from the gear you talk about too soon.
    The only way is to shoot the same boolit at the same velocity from every barrel length. The twist is the ONLY fixed rate.
    Actually the 300 and 310 gr from the .44 needs 1316 to 1350 fps. You will not get that with 4".
    I said look down at the twist and imagine how you can get to velocity when you can't burn the powder.

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    I went back through my stuff and found this. I tried to shoot a heavy boolit too slow from my .44. This is how sick it can be.

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    Sponsor ADfields's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bfrshooter View Post
    It is what I said, not enough velocity reached to have the rifling take affect. Spin is velocity dependent.
    The loss of 50 to 100 fps in the shorter barrel is enough to ruin accuracy.
    Take a rifle, 1 in 10" twist. The bullet at 1000 fps will revolve 1200 times per second or 72,000 rpm's. Take it to 3000 fps and spin goes to 216,000 rpm's.
    The difference between a heavy boolit stability at 1350 fps to 1000 fps is about 12,600 rpm's. Shorten a barrel to 900 fps and the difference is 16,200 rpm's.
    The boolit breaks loose from the gear you talk about too soon.
    The only way is to shoot the same boolit at the same velocity from every barrel length. The twist is the ONLY fixed rate.
    Actually the 300 and 310 gr from the .44 needs 1316 to 1350 fps. You will not get that with 4".
    I said look down at the twist and imagine how you can get to velocity when you can't burn the powder.
    There ya go, didnít make sense to me the way you said it before. 10mm is another that doesnít tend to shoot the real heavys (220/230g) for the same reason. The guns are designed with an optimal twist for the most common bullets in the caliber so some combinations tend to fall on their face when you try real heavy for caliber bullets. You can sometimes play with bullet shape and/or velocity and get around having the wrong twist rate but the only real fix sometimes is a lighter bullet or a new barrel with faster twist.
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    Member S.B.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akheloce View Post
    There's a guy online called cylindersmith, or Brownells sells the reamer for DIY. It's pretty easy.
    Well, if the 240s are flying straight I doubt that the chamber throats are at fault? Are the bullets in both the 240s and 300s the same diameter?
    Steve

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    I understand the 4" will have less FPS then say a 7". I don't know if I agree with the theory that is do to less riffling the bullet gets to make contact with. I think it's more about the burn of the powder. Shorter time the round gets to be pushed before flight, and less overall powder burned.

    I have been shooting more 240gr rounds and am very happy with the grouping. I just need to stop the flinch I have developed with the BB rounds. Any ideas?

    SWMM. I have a 9mm and 45 that I shoot just fine ( if I can find more 9mm rounds) lol.

    Thanks for the info and advise.

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    bfrshooter: are you using some formula for the fps needed to stabilize for bullet weight? Input for dia. and/or bullet length? 1316fps sounds pretty precise!

    Thank you.

    Edit for more? Is a certain rpm needed to stabilize? So a 1in8" twist would need less fps than a 1in10" twist to reach the same rpm?

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    Quote Originally Posted by S.B. View Post
    Well, if the 240s are flying straight I doubt that the chamber throats are at fault? Are the bullets in both the 240s and 300s the same diameter?
    Steve
    I was thinking in terms of ogive and coal.

    In my redhawk, heavy bullets irregularly contacted the varied throats.
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