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Thread: The fallacy of Diponetting only zones.

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    Premium Member kasilofchrisn's Avatar
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    Default The fallacy of Diponetting only zones.

    So it seems every year I hear of people claiming during dipnet season the Kenai and Kasilof river mouths are for dipnetting only and closed to sportfishing.
    That is totally wrong! those areas are never closed to sportfishing. I would post a link to the regs but it doesn't say those areas are closed or specifically that they are open. But nowhere does it say they are closed to sportfishing in the legal dipnetting areas before during or after dipnet season.
    Now I will say it would be foolish to try and fish amongst the throngs of dipnetters in those areas while dipnetting is going on. Not to mention the trash and waste left behind both human waste and fish waste you would have to dodge.
    It might also be unethical to be flinging hooks around a bunch of dipnetters trying to fill their freezers.
    Where do people get this notion of exclusive dipnetting zones from?
    Do dipnetters spread these rumors or is it just an assumption of the misinformed?
    Also if you think I am wrong please feel free to post a link or other evidence that proves your point though you won't find any.
    "The closer I get to nature the farther I am from idiots"

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    It is just one more example of a user group, or group, acting like they have exclusivity. I have encountered the same sort of attitude at the Russian river (years ago) when the fish would hold in the sanctuary. There would be a collective effort among people to stop fishing and retreat from the water in order "allow" the fish to start upstream again. Once the fish started moving the "collective" would wage assault upon the salmon. I was chasing rainbows one day and carried on legaly fishing for for trout, one guy across the river told me to knock it off, I told him to screw himself, he then went so far as to threaten to shoot me while everyone else stood there like cattle.

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    webmaster Michael Strahan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by .338WM View Post
    It is just one more example of a user group, or group, acting like they have exclusivity. I have encountered the same sort of attitude at the Russian river (years ago) when the fish would hold in the sanctuary. There would be a collective effort among people to stop fishing and retreat from the water in order "allow" the fish to start upstream again. Once the fish started moving the "collective" would wage assault upon the salmon. I was chasing rainbows one day and carried on legaly fishing for for trout, one guy across the river told me to knock it off, I told him to screw himself, he then went so far as to threaten to shoot me while everyone else stood there like cattle.
    "Exclusivity" is forced on dipnetters in that they are forced into very limited areas by law. Nothing wrong with that (personally I would not want to see dipnetters upriver on the Kenai, for example). But sport fishermen have the run of the whole river. I'm sure it happens, but I have never seen dipnetters trying to force anglers out of the area, nor have I seen anglers fighting with dipnetters for a spot along the beach. Truth is, most of the dipnetting areas offer poor angling opportunities anyway.

    As to the example of backing out of the river to let fish come up, that is absolutely true, and I have seen it many times. Sound travels a long distance underwater and I believe those downstream fish "hear" those sinkers bouncing along the bottom and will hold below the fishing area until it slows down or stops. I could not imagine fishing right on through a group of anglers who were trying to cooperate on enticing reds to move up into the hole. Yes, you are legally allowed to do that, but this is a classic example of a clash of rights, and one person ruining an opportunity for others as a result. Would you have missed much by waiting fifteen minutes? You have 12 miles of prime rainbow water above that hole!

    Both examples, (dipnetters mixing with anglers, and rainbow fishermen mixing with red fishermen) are cases where one group (or individual) insists on their rights to the detriment of the other. Seems to me that the only realistic answer is an attitude of deference to each other, while politely confronting the rudeness of those whose actions compromise the majority.

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    The dispute I often see on the Kasilof is not so much over sport fishing (with gear or bait), but snagging, which as far as I know is still not cool there. I imagine an experienced bait fisherman could do all right there though.

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    Member AlaskaHippie's Avatar
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    I know snagging is legal in the saltwater in Seward, is it legal in Cook Inlet (specifically in the dipnetting zones)?
    “Life has become immeasurably better since I have been forced to stop taking it seriously.” ― H.S.T.
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    Premium Member kasilofchrisn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlaskaHippie View Post
    I know snagging is legal in the saltwater in Seward, is it legal in Cook Inlet (specifically in the dipnetting zones)?
    Yes it is legal in the saltwater with the exception of Kachemak bay. It does say in the regs the Nick Dudiak fishing lagoon may open for snagging by EO.
    So the saltwater areas of the dipnet zone are open for snagging but the freshwater areas are not.
    "The closer I get to nature the farther I am from idiots"

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    Quote Originally Posted by kasilofchrisn View Post
    So the saltwater areas of the dipnet zone are open for snagging but the freshwater areas are not.

    Sweeeeet!

    Thanks Chris.
    “Life has become immeasurably better since I have been forced to stop taking it seriously.” ― H.S.T.
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    Premium Member kasilofchrisn's Avatar
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    I get what you are saying Mike on dipnetters being restricted,
    What gets me though is when people say the dipnet zone is closed to sportfishing. Regardless of whether the fishing there is worthwile or not I just become annoyed at the mis information.
    I personally would not want to see the dippers spread out up river either.
    I have not heard of conflicts with dippers and fishermen and can't personally see someone trying to rod and reel some fish next to a bunch of people with a 5' dipnets.
    Then again if you are done dipping and there is some open water to fish why couldn't a person give it a whirl? Productive or not it gives a person camping in the area anyway something to do.
    It is just the principle of people saying you cannot fish in that area if you wanted to that I find misleading. It makes me wonder where people get that idea in their head from thats what I question.
    I also wanted to put it out there for those wanting to try it that legally they can do so.
    "The closer I get to nature the farther I am from idiots"

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    webmaster Michael Strahan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kasilofchrisn View Post
    I get what you are saying Mike on dipnetters being restricted,
    What gets me though is when people say the dipnet zone is closed to sportfishing. Regardless of whether the fishing there is worthwile or not I just become annoyed at the mis information.
    I personally would not want to see the dippers spread out up river either.
    I have not heard of conflicts with dippers and fishermen and can't personally see someone trying to rod and reel some fish next to a bunch of people with a 5' dipnets.
    Then again if you are done dipping and there is some open water to fish why couldn't a person give it a whirl? Productive or not it gives a person camping in the area anyway something to do.
    It is just the principle of people saying you cannot fish in that area if you wanted to that I find misleading. It makes me wonder where people get that idea in their head from thats what I question.
    I also wanted to put it out there for those wanting to try it that legally they can do so.
    I used to dipnet the Kenai just below the bridge, and I've seen anglers fishing in there before. Nobody had an issue with it. But I did notice that they were careful to avoid fishing where people were trying to dipnet. Makes sense. I've seen a handful of anglers in with dipnetters before, but it seemed that they were only fishing when dipnetting was slow... I have not heard anyone telling anglers that they could not legally fish there though. But I only dipnet the Kenai. Maybe it is more common elsewhere, and I'm only one guy anyway. A lot happens down there that I don't know about.

    One thing I do know, by the time a situation escalates to a shouting match, or even when people are only focused on their rights (without thinking about how their legal actions might negatively affect others), there's not much hope of a good outcome.

    Regards,

    -Mike
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    "Dream big, and dare to fail." -Norman Vaughan
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    Premium Member kasilofchrisn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kasilofchrisn View Post
    Yes it is legal in the saltwater with the exception of Kachemak bay. It does say in the regs the Nick Dudiak fishing lagoon may open for snagging by EO.
    So the saltwater areas of the dipnet zone are open for snagging but the freshwater areas are not.
    looks like I mispoke. I looked it up just to be sure and snagging is only legal south of Anchor Point.
    Not sure why that is but thats what the regs say. Also Kachemak bay is open to snagging fromJune 24 to December 31. I don't know why that is either.
    http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/static/re...egulations.pdf

    For some reason I had thought it was legal in all cook inlet saltwaters but unfortunately I was wrong and I am man enough to admit it.
    Still a guy could cast a bunch of lures or flies or whatever in the dipnet zone if they wanted to.
    "The closer I get to nature the farther I am from idiots"

    "Fishing and Hunting are only an addiction if you're trying to quit"

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    Quote Originally Posted by kasilofchrisn View Post
    looks like I mispoke. I looked it up just to be sure and snagging is only legal south of Anchor Point.
    Not sure why that is but thats what the regs say. Also Kachemak bay is open to snagging fromJune 24 to December 31. I don't know why that is either.
    http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/static/re...egulations.pdf

    For some reason I had thought it was legal in all cook inlet saltwaters but unfortunately I was wrong and I am man enough to admit it.
    Still a guy could cast a bunch of lures or flies or whatever in the dipnet zone if they wanted to.

    Thanks, again, for the revised info (but I'm not repping ya this time ).
    “Life has become immeasurably better since I have been forced to stop taking it seriously.” ― H.S.T.
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    Premium Member kasilofchrisn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlaskaHippie View Post
    Thanks, again, for the revised info (but I'm not repping ya this time ).
    We could still go down and throw out some heavy pixees or something anyway. It would give me an excuse to practice with my 14' surfcast rod.
    Of course we wouldn't want to get in the way of all those dippers filling their freezers and the freezers of their lesser 48 friends and family.
    "The closer I get to nature the farther I am from idiots"

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    Quote Originally Posted by kasilofchrisn View Post
    We could still go down and throw out some heavy pixees or something anyway. It would give me an excuse to practice with my 14' surfcast rod.
    Of course we wouldn't want to get in the way of all those dippers filling their freezers and the freezers of their lesser 48 friends and family.


    You had me at Pixie.......
    “Life has become immeasurably better since I have been forced to stop taking it seriously.” ― H.S.T.
    "Character is how you treat those who can do nothing for you."

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    Thumbs down time to troll for dipnetters - apparently they're in season again.

    Quote Originally Posted by kasilofchrisn View Post
    So it seems every year I hear of people claiming during dipnet season
    It seems that every year, about this time, the forum becomes ripe for dipnet bashers to abound.

    If dipnetters converged on the flyfishing forum to trade tips on how to mess with (which is illegal btw) lawful flyfishing there's be a resounding crash as many would descend on that person.

    But hey, dipnetters are easy to bash, for the non dipnetters among us who choose to troll here.

    Lastly, for any idiot that thinks he's going to swing a weighted treble hook among dipnetters, think again. That idiocy has been tried before and it is not tolerated. Nor should it be. So you geniuses are going to have to think of a different (illegal) thing to do to your fellow (legal) Alaskans that you seem to have no tolerance for.

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    Member AlaskaHippie's Avatar
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    I just loaded up on Pixies Chris, see ya down there!

    Although I don't have a 14' surfcaster, I'd reckon the rod & reel I use in Seward will suffice. Hopefully we can have some fun, and land a few sockeye.
    “Life has become immeasurably better since I have been forced to stop taking it seriously.” ― H.S.T.
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    Not cool to be flingin' hooks when people are in the water sweeping.....other than that, I say go for it.
    "– Gas boats are bad enough, autos are an invention of the devil, and airplanes are worse." ~Allen Hasselborg

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    Quote Originally Posted by cdubbin View Post
    Not cool to be flingin' hooks when people are in the water sweeping.....other than that, I say go for it.
    Of course its not cool. And not safe. And a fair argument can be made for not legal too.

    I think those issues were kinda the point of the post(s) and possibly this entire (sorry) thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cdubbin View Post
    Not cool to be flingin' hooks when people are in the water sweeping.....other than that, I say go for it.

    Agreed, however wouldn't the reverse also be true? If folks with rods and reels are fishing, with no one nearby, wouldn't any of the Dips who move in on em then be the transgressors?
    “Life has become immeasurably better since I have been forced to stop taking it seriously.” ― H.S.T.
    "Character is how you treat those who can do nothing for you."

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    Gentlemen, I'm fairly certain that those advocating flinging pixies among dipnetters are being sarcastic. We may ban lots of things around here , but we haven't banned humor just yet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian M View Post
    Gentlemen, I'm fairly certain that those advocating flinging pixies among dipnetters are being sarcastic. We may ban lots of things around here , but we haven't banned humor just yet.

    *Checks PM Box*

    -grin-

    The humor wasn't lost on most Brian, just a few gals apparently......
    “Life has become immeasurably better since I have been forced to stop taking it seriously.” ― H.S.T.
    "Character is how you treat those who can do nothing for you."

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