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Thread: Verifers Legal?

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    Default Verifers Legal?

    I looked around on here and did a search but didn't fined the answer. Is it legal to use a verifier (http://www.specialtyarch.com/verifier.asp) to hunt with? I have my IBEP shoot tonight and I will ask them that question. But wanted to see what the masses thought.

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    Member ekberger's Avatar
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    I would be interested in what you find out. A verifier is completely different than any sort of light enhanced sight which are currently not allowed in AK. I would also be somewhat surprised if many outside of the target shooting community knew what they were, so in this respect you may not get the answer you're looking for at your IBEP shoot. Nonetheless, keep us posted and good luck on the shoot...!

    Point of reference:

    A verifier lens is like wearing a pair of prescription glasses and are used to focus the pins of your site. A clarifier lens is used to focus the target for the shooter. These lens are simply screwed into the peep aperture hole.



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    Update: The guys at the IBEP Bowhunter Certification did not know what a verfier was much less if they are legal to use in hunting. He told me he would check with his ADF&G contacts and get back with me. As soon as I find out I will post the answer.

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    AkGrumpy, my advice is to contact ADFG yourself through their web site. I've done this re: lighted bow sites and got a very reasonable response. You are now relying on the individual you talked to to adequately represent and educate someone at Fish and Game (F&G) and you might be in a better position since you know what you are talking about to do that yourself. Like I mentioned in my previous post, many do not know what verifiers or clarifiers are and why they are used. It could simply be a matter of the users eye sight and the need for correction. F&G may understand this and rule in your favor (or everyone else's favor for that matter). If you want to be legal, the only recourse is to get it in writing from F&G. If they think they are sight advantages like lights you may be out of luck.

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    Please don't take my word on it, but I can't see why they would not be allowed. As stated, its basically a pair of glasses in the peep.

    EK, I would be interested to see what ADF&G told you about a light for the fiber optics on a sight.

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    It's not ADF&G that does the enforcement. You need to contact the Alaska Fish and Wildlife Troopers and talk to them about it. It is going to depend on their interpretation of what constitutes "optical enhancement" as stated on page 19 of the hunting regulations.

    " You MAY NOT use scopes or other devices attached to the bow or arrow to optical enhancement."

    I am not familiar with this device but if it takes batteries then it would definitely be a no-go as only luminock and non-illuminating cameras are allowed.

    The device would definitely be legal to use during general weapons seasons.

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    As LuJon alluded to, you want to make sure the answer you get is to the right question. The answer could very easily be different whether you are asking about an archery only (weapons restricted) hunt versus a general weapons hunt. Some things are legal on a bow if you are just using a bow in a hunt open to rifles/etc... but might be illegal for a bow only hunt.

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    Member ekberger's Avatar
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    Wildwood Hunter...a year or two ago I asked about pin lights, basically whether or not they were allowed in AK. The response I got, not to my liking I might add, was that they were not. The lights I'm referencing is the small light used on various sights to give added light to the fiber optic threads that direct light to the pin itself. My sight is an HHA sight and you can see a photo of the light in question here: http://www.hhasports.com/products/accessories.htm It's called the "Blue Burst". It does not shine directly on the pin itself, however, provides added light to the fibre optic threads. I'd have to dig though past emails to see if I still have F&G's original response, but I recall that they invited me to provide additional information on the light in question for it to be considered by one of the review boards. I did not pursue this.

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    The following is from the Deputy Director of Division of Alaska Wildlife Troopers:

    Under current state law, specifically 5AAC 92.085.10 (B) verifiers would be illegal to use. A verifier would be considered an “other device attached to the bow for optical enhancement”. Sorry for the delay, I don’t bow hunt (yet) and it took me some time to research it and then I verified my findings before I answered you. Thanks, for asking the question, I learned a little myself.

    LuJon, you were correct with them calling it optical enhancement. Even though it has no batteries nor is it really an optical enhancement, as it doesn't help you see down range. It only clears up the pins so that a peoson can make a clean shot by being able to see his aiming sight. Maybe time to try to get that law changed. You can use a scope to shoot an animal several hundred yards away but can't clear up your sight pins to shoot an animal 20 to 60 yards away. And I knew that the reg stated " You MAY NOT use scopes or other devices attached to the bow or arrow for optical enhancement" but had to ask.



    Quote Originally Posted by LuJon View Post
    It's not ADF&G that does the enforcement. You need to contact the Alaska Fish and Wildlife Troopers and talk to them about it. It is going to depend on their interpretation of what constitutes "optical enhancement" as stated on page 19 of the hunting regulations.

    " You MAY NOT use scopes or other devices attached to the bow or arrow to optical enhancement."

    I am not familiar with this device but if it takes batteries then it would definitely be a no-go as only luminock and non-illuminating cameras are allowed.

    The device would definitely be legal to use during general weapons seasons.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AkGrumpy View Post
    The following is from the Deputy Director of Division of Alaska Wildlife Troopers:

    Under current state law, specifically 5AAC 92.085.10 (B) verifiers would be illegal to use. A verifier would be considered an “other device attached to the bow for optical enhancement”. Sorry for the delay, I don’t bow hunt (yet) and it took me some time to research it and then I verified my findings before I answered you. Thanks, for asking the question, I learned a little myself.

    LuJon, you were correct with them calling it optical enhancement. Even though it has no batteries nor is it really an optical enhancement, as it doesn't help you see down range. It only clears up the pins so that a peoson can make a clean shot by being able to see his aiming sight. Maybe time to try to get that law changed. You can use a scope to shoot an animal several hundred yards away but can't clear up your sight pins to shoot an animal 20 to 60 yards away. And I knew that the reg stated " You MAY NOT use scopes or other devices attached to the bow or arrow for optical enhancement" but had to ask.

    From your description of it, I would say it definitely falls in the "optical enhancement" category. Optical enhancement doesn't specify that it would be helping you see down range, just that it helps you see, whether that be down range or just seeing what's right in front of you (the pins). Like you mentioned, the scope argument has zero association here. The point is for things that apply in a weapons restricted hunt.

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    I've been bowhunting for nearly 20 years and I've never heard of a verifier. LOL!

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    Default Verifiers and Clarifiers, a short course...

    Quote Originally Posted by mossyhorn View Post
    I've been bowhunting for nearly 20 years and I've never heard of a verifier. LOL!
    With all due respect, it's never too late to learn. Very often in target archery especially with compound bows they're quite common. Here is a quick summary... I have a clarifier in one of my target bows, but have never considered using one in my hunting bow. Nonetheless, some may need/want them simply due to vision correction issues.

    Q: How do I know if I need a Verifier or a Clarifier?

    A:
    A Verifier is used when you shoot with pins to clear up the pins, and a Clarifier is used when you shoot with a scope and a lens to clear up the target.

    Q:
    What is a Verifier?

    A:
    A Verifier is a lens installed in the peep that will allow you to see the pins clearly. It will not clear up your target. The verifier works similar to reading glasses and is made for older shooters who have difficulty seeing objects at close distances.

    The reference to a "scope" is a glass insert in the sight window, usually 1-2x magnification. Again, often seen/used in target archery.


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    Quote Originally Posted by ekberger View Post
    Wildwood Hunter...a year or two ago I asked about pin lights, basically whether or not they were allowed in AK. The response I got, not to my liking I might add, was that they were not. The lights I'm referencing is the small light used on various sights to give added light to the fiber optic threads that direct light to the pin itself. My sight is an HHA sight and you can see a photo of the light in question here: http://www.hhasports.com/products/accessories.htm It's called the "Blue Burst". It does not shine directly on the pin itself, however, provides added light to the fibre optic threads. I'd have to dig though past emails to see if I still have F&G's original response, but I recall that they invited me to provide additional information on the light in question for it to be considered by one of the review boards. I did not pursue this.
    Lighted pins are legal in the regular season, just not in the archery only/restricted hunts. If you read the regs, there is no restriction of lighted sight pins under the regular season which means they are legal. They are only identified as illegal under the restricted hunts page. We got that interpretation from F&G in Craig last year.

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    To continue, I think its rediculous that its legal to use lighted nocks, a camera mounted bow, shoot an arrow at over 350fps, use electronic game cams, scent absorbing clothing and still think that a lighted pin is going to ruin archery hunting. I wrote the F&G BOD about changing the law to allow lighted pins, but was told they won't take up methods of taking game for two more years. And its even more rediculous that you can use them in the regular season, but not in a restricted season.

    I shoot with an aimpoint type scope on my bow, which is legal in the general season and I shoot extremely well with it. But if I draw a restricted tag I have to switch out to a method I am not as profecient with to follow the letter of the law. Yes I can practice more with a peep/pin system, but with 32 years of hunting with a bow under me, Im not going to be good with a peep and pin, Ive tried.

    At least for me my proficeincy is going to drop off by switching. Thus the potential for wound/loss goes up. Is that what we want?

    Someone here can say, well then you shouldn't go hunting with a bow then. I don't think that is the answer either, despite practice, pins don't work well for me. But I have a system that Ive hunted with in many states and Africa, so why not embrace a method that is legal in most of the state? Makes no sense to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hughiam View Post
    To continue, I think its rediculous that its legal to use lighted nocks, a camera mounted bow, shoot an arrow at over 350fps, use electronic game cams, scent absorbing clothing and still think that a lighted pin is going to ruin archery hunting. I wrote the F&G BOD about changing the law to allow lighted pins, but was told they won't take up methods of taking game for two more years. And its even more rediculous that you can use them in the regular season, but not in a restricted season.

    I shoot with an aimpoint type scope on my bow, which is legal in the general season and I shoot extremely well with it. But if I draw a restricted tag I have to switch out to a method I am not as profecient with to follow the letter of the law. Yes I can practice more with a peep/pin system, but with 32 years of hunting with a bow under me, Im not going to be good with a peep and pin, Ive tried.

    At least for me my proficeincy is going to drop off by switching. Thus the potential for wound/loss goes up. Is that what we want?

    Someone here can say, well then you shouldn't go hunting with a bow then. I don't think that is the answer either, despite practice, pins don't work well for me. But I have a system that Ive hunted with in many states and Africa, so why not embrace a method that is legal in most of the state? Makes no sense to me.
    Well, dang, I have better accuracy, especially between 30-50 yards with a rifle, so they should make that legal in the weapons restricted hunts too, right? Since some people are better with crossbows because they can't hold a bow at full draw long enough to aim clearly, so we should let them do that too. Sorry. Maybe you are right, if you don't feel you have the proper proficiency with a bow under the current regulations and you are worried about not making a clean kill, maybe you should avoid weapons restricted hunts. Really, what's the point of weapons restricted hunts if you just want them to allow all the same stuff that they allow in non-restricted hunts?

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    Because its a bow hunt and I'm still using a bow. If you don't like lighted pins that can and do make me a better shot please justify why bow mounted cameras, and lighted nocks should be allowed. For that matter if we really want to keep things primitive lets ban everything but long bows and force people to where loin cloths.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hughiam View Post
    Because its a bow hunt and I'm still using a bow. If you don't like lighted pins that can and do make me a better shot please justify why bow mounted cameras, and lighted nocks should be allowed. For that matter if we really want to keep things primitive lets ban everything but long bows and force people to where loin cloths.
    I can see a huge difference between lighted pins and the two things you mentioned. Lighted pins help you in the actual targeting and taking of game. A camera doesn't help you in any way other than to document the hunt/shot and lighted nocks just help you find your arrow after the shot and see where you hit the animal. It doesn't help you make the shot in the first place. You seem to think we should go with one extreme or another, either everything is legal or nothing is. Where the regs are now, we are in a nice middle ground that has been developed over many years of tweaks. You are welcome to submit ideas for future changes as things are always evolving. I just don't support that particular idea.

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    "At least for me my proficeincy is going to drop off by switching. Thus the potential for wound/loss goes up. Is that what we want? "

    You'd think someone with 32 years experience would have learned shot selection and pick their shots accordingly so wound-kill ratios should NOT change based on sights scope pins alone. But alas it's left up to the experienced hunter to make the right judgement 'shoot don't shoot call'. Now stop all this sniveling! Laws are not about "me", they are about "us" and the majority of 'us' at some point realized the challenge we accepted when we decided to "bowHUNTERS"!

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    Quote Originally Posted by anchskier View Post
    I can see a huge difference between lighted pins and the two things you mentioned. Lighted pins help you in the actual targeting and taking of game. A camera doesn't help you in any way other than to document the hunt/shot and lighted nocks just help you find your arrow after the shot and see where you hit the animal. It doesn't help you make the shot in the first place. You seem to think we should go with one extreme or another, either everything is legal or nothing is. Where the regs are now, we are in a nice middle ground that has been developed over many years of tweaks. You are welcome to submit ideas for future changes as things are always evolving. I just don't support that particular idea.
    Okay, so your are saying we should be less proficient. According to your statement, "lighted pins HELP you in targeting and taking of game". So they should be banned? Really?


    Tradbow, no one is sniveling. The sad fact is the State contradicts itself by allowing lighted pins in the regular season, but not allowing them in draw hunts.

    I keep hearing the "technology" argument and I think that's a farce. Look at what is allowed in the restricted hunts, in fact the lighted nocks already make you ineligeble for P&Y consideration as does the camera. All I'm pushing for is to keep the regs consistent. Whats good for one archery season should be good for all seasons.

    With few exceptions, lighted pins are allowed in the majority of all the States.

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hughiam View Post
    Okay, so your are saying we should be less proficient. According to your statement, "lighted pins HELP you in targeting and taking of game". So they should be banned? Really?


    Tradbow, no one is sniveling. The sad fact is the State contradicts itself by allowing lighted pins in the regular season, but not allowing them in draw hunts.

    I keep hearing the "technology" argument and I think that's a farce. Look at what is allowed in the restricted hunts, in fact the lighted nocks already make you ineligeble for P&Y consideration as does the camera. All I'm pushing for is to keep the regs consistent. Whats good for one archery season should be good for all seasons.

    With few exceptions, lighted pins are allowed in the majority of all the States.
    No, I am not saying that. I am simply explaining WHAT they do. I felt that was necessary since YOU were trying to compare them with other items that served completely different purposes. You were, to use an old phrase, comparing apples to oranges. Again, if the point was to make everything as easy as possible for everyone, there would be no such thing as a weapons restricted hunt. There would be no restrictions on what someone can use. The regs ARE consistent. There is no difference between what is allowed in one archery season and what is allowed in another. There IS a difference, however, between what is allowed in a non-weapons restricted hunt and a weapons restricted hunt (rifle hunt that allows other means versus a bow-only hunt).

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