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Thread: Maule

  1. #1
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    Default Maule

    Another Maule bites the dust.... Juneau

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    Member Float Pilot's Avatar
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    Date: 05-MAY-2013
    Time: 19:30 LT
    Type: Maule M-5-210C Strata Rocket
    Operator: Private (Pending)
    Registration: N378X
    C/n / msn: 6178C
    Fatalities: Fatalities: 0 / Occupants: 3
    Other fatalities: 0
    Airplane damage: mis
    Location: Juneau International Airport - PAJN, Juneau, AK - United States of America
    Phase: Take off
    Nature: Unknown
    Departure airport: PAJN
    Destination airport:
    Narrative:
    The aircraft, a Maule M-5-210C Strata Rocket, N378X, experienced a loss of directional control during the takeoff roll from Juneau International Airport - PAJN, Juneau, Alaska, and came to rest on the adjacent seaplane pond embankment.
    The aircraft sustained unreported damage and the three passengers onboard were not injured.
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  3. #3

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    would be curious what the ntsb comes up with for the cause of the crash. Were they flying in a crosswind greater than the plane was rated for or some other pilot error or was it mechanical failure.

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    Airplanes have crosswind ratings?

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    Airplanes have crosswind ratings?

    Strictly speaking, no. Some have what is called "maximum demonstrated crosswind component" for landing. The value for mine is 17 mph.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Pid View Post
    Airplanes have crosswind ratings?
    Usually noted in the POH as "maximum demonstrated crosswind velocity", but also noted as not a limitation. This "NOTE" is u most often found in the POH's "Wind Components" section.

  7. #7

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    I think it was a question intended to spur thinking on the part of the previous poster...pretty sure Mr. Pid knows that there is no crosswind rating...

    Sad to see somebody bung up a good plane.
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    JUNEAU WIND FOR MAY 5th.


    Wind
    Wind Speed 7 mph (North)
    Max Wind Speed 16 mph
    Max Gust Speed 21 mph
    Visibility 9 miles

    It was only about 12 knots at the time of the accident (according to the gizmo I found so it my be wrong) coming from 270 to 260...

    Of course since jets come and go,,, there is always the vortices factor. Maybe..

    It is interesting that it shows pending AS THE PRIVATE PILOT STATUS.
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    I thought the "Pending" was the transfer of ownership of the plane not the pilot info. Runway is aimed 26/8 and they are about center field.

    Latest news was they were taking off and might have steered off the runway down the embankment, across the access road and into the pond.

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    P-factor event?
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    Member Float Pilot's Avatar
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    I am thinking that when it says operator status Private (pending) that it means he or she is a new pilot who recently obtained their private rating (check-ride temp) but had not yet received their official FAA license...

    Going on a short cross country drive in an aircraft seems like a long term event to those involved... But in reality it usually occurs in less than 3 seconds.
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    Sounds like a ground loop to me, but then again I was not there. Newly Certificated Private Pilot, he or she just got bit. Nobody hurt and certainly a good size repair bill. Well he is in for a chat with the FAA , maybe a flight check.

  13. #13

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    21 mph gusts if they are directly cross wind is fairly decent especially for a new pilot, not sure what the max recommended cross wind component is for a maul but for a pitts its about 15 kts which is about 17.25 mph anything beyond that and your going to be at high risk of ground loop. They simply should not have been flying in such adverse weather conditions.

    These short coupled high power planes are not super cubs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Float Pilot View Post
    JUNEAU WIND FOR MAY 5th.


    Wind
    Wind Speed 7 mph (North)
    Max Wind Speed 16 mph
    Max Gust Speed 21 mph
    Visibility 9 miles

    It was only about 12 knots at the time of the accident (according to the gizmo I found so it my be wrong) coming from 270 to 260...

    Of course since jets come and go,,, there is always the vortices factor. Maybe..

    It is interesting that it shows pending AS THE PRIVATE PILOT STATUS.

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    I interpret "private" to mean not commercial. Pending indicates a new owner. It has nothing to do with pilot proficiency. Never judge a pilot or an incident by an NTSB report.

    Demonstrated crosswind component is a factor of what was available during aircraft certification. It is not a limitation or a recommendation. I've exceeded the 180's demonstrated crosswind component more times than I can count. C'mon, A-Gamer, get it straight.

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    "Crosswind Component" and "Crosswind Velocity" are two different animals. The former can be from a quartering head or tail wind, while the latter is wind directly across the runway from one side or the other, though it will also be ethe crosswind componenet.

    As an example, a 30-knot head wind coming from about 40-degrees off the nose translates into only an 18-knot crosswind component. Mr. Pid is right: most of us have exceeded the "demonstratedd" crosswind component many, many times. If you're not comfortable with that sort of operation, it might be best to stick closer to airports with more than two runways.

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    Member alaskabliss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rppearso View Post
    They simply should not have been flying in such adverse weather conditions.
    I think before we cast judgment we should know all the facts...
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  17. #17

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    There are not many airports with more than one run way, Merril and Palmer are the only ones I know of in the entire state. There is tannacross but I think they have let that airstrip degrade into disrepair. South east also has yakutat and gustavus. Exceeded crosswind component in a plane like a cub is alot different than exceeding it in a maul or a pitts. Not all airframes are equal or designed for the same type of flying.

    Just dont fly in high wind if you have one of these types of planes, a cub you can fly in pretty much anything ...... but you cant do snap rolls.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grizzly 2 View Post
    "Crosswind Component" and "Crosswind Velocity" are two different animals. The former can be from a quartering head or tail wind, while the latter is wind directly across the runway from one side or the other, though it will also be ethe crosswind componenet.

    As an example, a 30-knot head wind coming from about 40-degrees off the nose translates into only an 18-knot crosswind component. Mr. Pid is right: most of us have exceeded the "demonstratedd" crosswind component many, many times. If you're not comfortable with that sort of operation, it might be best to stick closer to airports with more than two runways.

  18. #18
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    I've never been to an airport with only one runway (unless you count Sparrevohn, since only one is useable really.)
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  19. #19

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    Have 900 hrs in my 177A. I've made a grand total of 1 landing in a crosswind that was higher than the max demonstrated listed by Cessna. That would be my second landing in Alaska last summer. Eighteen knots gusting to 25 knots, direct crosswind at Tok. Almost pranged it!

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    TO: rppearso

    There are a whole bunch of airports in Alaska with two or more runways. You're going to have to get busy with a little more flying and a little less malarky broadcasting of erroneous information.

    And, yes, a Cub will snap roll. On the other hand, a P-51 Mustang will not. A Cub will also perform aileron rolls, but with their dinky little ailerons, it takes about a week to get through one.

    As to operating in crosswind conditions. the techniques are pretty much the same in a Cub as in a Maule or a Pitts. When it comes to the landings, it might be a little easier in a Cub, since a Cub gear is not so narrow as in the other two types . . . relatively speaking.

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