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Thread: Trooper Warning

  1. #1
    Moderator Daveinthebush's Avatar
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    Default Trooper Warning

    I found this in the Trooper Blogs. Just an FYI!

    Anchor Point Troopers have received numerous complaints of boat operators throwing fish carcasses on the beach near the boat launch area in Ninilchik. The dead fish have caused a bad smell to linger in the area and has created an eye sore for many people. Due to this, the Anchor Point Troopers are asking citizens not to dispose of dead fish on the beach. To do so is a violation of Alaska Statue AS46.06.080 (littering). Troopers will begin taking enforcement action if fish disposal continues on the beach. Anglers are encouraged to seek Park staff or local waste facility companies for disposal information. If anyone has additional questions they can contact Anchor Point Troopers. Your cooperation in this matter is appreciated.

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    Member AK NIMROD's Avatar
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    hey Dave, JUST THOUGHT, if that is so then are all the fisherman littering on the Kenai and Russian River ( and every other body of water in Alaska) that dispose of fish parts in the rivers,lakes and bays?????,esp. as state has advised folks on Russian River & Kenai to throw them in the river????? only place i have seen anything different is small boat harbors, some have containers provided to dispose of guts and remains.
    -Pat
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    Member ak_powder_monkey's Avatar
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    Default

    Good to see our limited law enforcement resources are well spent
    I choose to fly fish, not because its easy, but because its hard.

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    Moderator Daveinthebush's Avatar
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    Default Messenger

    I am just the messenger. Obviously someone complained and the troopers are doing their jobs of acting on complaints.

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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AK NIMROD View Post
    hey Dave, JUST THOUGHT, if that is so then are all the fisherman littering on the Kenai and Russian River ( and every other body of water in Alaska) that dispose of fish parts in the rivers,lakes and bays?????,esp. as state has advised folks on Russian River & Kenai to throw them in the river????? only place i have seen anything different is small boat harbors, some have containers provided to dispose of guts and remains.
    -Pat
    If you read the original post it stated that the Troopers recieved numerous complaints about fishermen disposing the fish carcasses on the river banks. Throwing the carcasses back into the river would send the carcasses back down stream. I don't see a problem with asking fishermen not to discard the fish carcasses on the river banks, trails, parking lots etc. Why not keep the area as clean as possible?

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    Member willphish4food's Avatar
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    Default carcass disposal

    Fish and Game has requested that fish carcasses be returned to the water. Is it possible that fish carcasses at Ninilchik are being returned to the water, but at high tide, and then when tide recedes they are on the beach? That could make for a mess, and if so, the agency charging for parking and boat launches should provide a mechanism for carcass disposal, rather than imposing a criminal penalty for doing something that is not only legal but requested everywhere else in the state.

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    Member AKBighorn's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by willphish4food View Post
    Fish and Game has requested that fish carcasses be returned to the water. Is it possible that fish carcasses at Ninilchik are being returned to the water, but at high tide, and then when tide recedes they are on the beach? That could make for a mess, and if so, the agency charging for parking and boat launches should provide a mechanism for carcass disposal, rather than imposing a criminal penalty for doing something that is not only legal but requested everywhere else in the state.
    And that is exactly what I was thinking. Seems like the launch is on the upstream side of the harbor in which would cause the river to back up at the launch on an incoming tide and then at an outgoing tide the water wouldn't necessarily move fast enough to clean off the beach. But hey what do I know.

    PS: Not shooting the messenger.

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    Moderator Daveinthebush's Avatar
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    Default Hey

    Hey it's for you guys to figure out and me to let ya know. ; D I have never been there so can't relate to the problem. Just trying to keep you guys out of trouble.

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    Default simple in my mind

    This is State Park land. You cannot dispose of waste of any type on State land unless it is in an approved area. Throwing fish waste back into the river is probably technically illegal under a variety of laws - the clean water act being one of them. The State ran into this issue with the grinders on the Russian and Kenai.

    However, law enforcement is usually reasonable and will not prosecute someone in an area that is not a problem. In this situation they are warning people, even it is illegal to do it today. They are letting sport fisherman know that in this situation they are going to enforce existing laws because a problem has come up.

    In the Kenai/Soldotna area we have this problem every year. People harvest fish in one area, drive to another area, clean them and leave the waste in the stream. Skikok Creek is a prime example. Last year I found a halibut waste near a public access point - in the creek. As far as I know halibut do not spawn in Skikok Creek. In the same summer I returned to find about 30 sockeye salmon heads and guts. Right after the PU fishery had a big day.

    So the troopers are correct on this one - clean up the mess sport fisherman or get fined. It is the responsibility of the individual not the state or boat launch operators.

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    Member AKBighorn's Avatar
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    Well maybe I am totally wrong here but is sure seems like the state has trained all the fishermen to toss carcasses back into the streams to help eliminate bear problems etc. Everywhere I have been it has been suggested or you are told to toss them in. It just doesn't seem right to start threatening people with fines for doing what they were told to do reguardless if it was meant for that specific spot or not. Sheesh I'm so Now we will have to start checking the regs to see if we are allowed to discard the carcasses after we catch fish at each stream, what's next you gonna tell me I can't take a leak behind the bushes but the bears can?

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    Default trade offs

    Quote Originally Posted by AKBighorn View Post
    Well maybe I am totally wrong here but is sure seems like the state has trained all the fishermen to toss carcasses back into the streams to help eliminate bear problems etc. Everywhere I have been it has been suggested or you are told to toss them in. It just doesn't seem right to start threatening people with fines for doing what they were told to do reguardless if it was meant for that specific spot or not. Sheesh I'm so Now we will have to start checking the regs to see if we are allowed to discard the carcasses after we catch fish at each stream, what's next you gonna tell me I can't take a leak behind the bushes but the bears can?
    Akbighorn - I can understand the frustration. I have shared the same thoughts about the Russian River. Here is the problem. Most Russian River fish harvested below the falls spawn above the falls and in the Upper Lake. So harvesting 50,000 fish below the falls and throwing the waste back into the river does nothing for nutrients in the Upper Lake - so why do it? Also, nutrients are not limiting production in skilak lake so again why do it when thousands of mainstem spawners are already floating down stream. On the other hand some systems, especially smaller one, may benifit from the waste.

    The answer is simple to some but more complex to me. The waste sometime ends up in places it should not - dumped on land that draws bears in, in streams that it should not be in, or in landfills and dumpsters that people pay to remove. So the State picked the least of the evils and said go ahead and dump the waste into the stream and let mother nature take care of it - it may help and probably does not hurt ( except if dropped in quanities in slow flowing waters). In contrast, in areas that waste is being piled up on land then it creates a problem and should be dealt with.

    As one example, the PU fishery at the mouth of the Kenai leaves piles of waste along the high tide line. My understanding is that the city of Kenai has taken bulldozers down and moved the waste back into the water for the tides to flush out after the season. This cost money but the city is making money on the fishery so it is a cost of doing business.

    So in conclusion a blanket statement that it is good to return your waste to the stream was a constant message to the public to get them to reduce problems. However, like all rules there are exceptions and the Ninilchik area is one of them.

  12. #12
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    Default confused

    wow, either i am reading Daves first post wrong or this is getting way off topic!
    How did this all go from dumping, mostly halibut carcases, on the beach.
    all the way up to the Russian? I do belive that the reason fish and game has asked fishermen to chop up there carcases and throw them into the river (russian)has nothing to do with littering. the inevitable bear problem has caused them to this. The people that are filleting there fish there, and throwing there carcs into the river with head, guts, and most all of the belly meat still attached have created a smorgas board for the bears.
    I do remember several years back when the beach thing was an issue, dont remember all the players, but they had tried to set up a grinding station. if i remember it correctly it lasted only a month or so. Guess the best thing to do is to take your carcs offshore a mile or so and dump them there. Downside to that is the fact that unless you are running every day it just does not work.

  13. #13

    Angry

    Lets see..... You not suppose to leave them in the woods (it attracks bears) and not leave them at the dump (it attracks bears) and now your not suppose to leave them back in the water where you caught them? What are we suppose to do now.... Shoot them up into space?
    Pretty funny since i remember my fishing club throwing tons of carcases back into the rivers for nutrient inhancement projects.
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  14. #14
    Moderator Daveinthebush's Avatar
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    Default Simple

    Quote Originally Posted by Daveinthebush View Post
    numerous complaints of boat operators throwing fish carcasses on the beach near the boat launch area in Ninilchik.
    Guys! This is not difficult. If you are a boat operator at the Ninilchik state boat launch, clean you fish before you get to shore and leave the carasses at sea. Do your wash down and return to port or the launch area.

    Be a part of the solution and represent sportsmen as responsible people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daveinthebush View Post
    Guys! This is not difficult. If you are a boat operator at the Ninilchik state boat launch, clean you fish before you get to shore and leave the carasses at sea. Do your wash down and return to port or the launch area.

    Be a part of the solution and represent sportsmen as responsible people.

    WRONG! Pasted right from ADFG's website. Read the final paragraph, part B.

    Regulations

    Most anglers 16-59 years old must have a current year's Alaska sport fishing license. There are two exceptions for Alaska residents:

    Alaska resident anglers 60 and older must have a free ADF&G Permanent ID Card.

    Alaska resident disabled veterans (50% or greater) must have a free ADF&G Disabled Veteran's Permanent ID Card.

    Resident and non-resident anglers younger than 16 do not need a sport fishing license.

    The open season for halibut is February 1-December 31.

    The bag limit is 2 fish daily and 4 in possession.

    There is no size limit.

    When a fish is landed and killed it becomes part of the bag limit of the person originally hooking it. Once you have attained your bag limit, you are not allowed to catch and keep halibut for anyone else on the vessel that same day.

    Possession of sport-caught halibut: a) No person may possess sport-caught halibut aboard a vessel when other fish or shellfish aboard the vessel are destined for sale, trade, or barter; and b) until brought back to shore and offloaded, no person may fillet, mutilate, or otherwise disfigure a halibut in any manner that prevents the determination of the number of fish caught or possessed.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  16. #16

    Default halibut fillet

    I was told by ADF&G that you can fillet a halibut on board as long as it's identifiable as a single fish. In other words, leave your halibut in four pieces (2 fillets per side) and the skin attached. He said what will get you in trouble is if you chunk up your halibut in 1lb or 2lb pieces.

  17. #17
    Moderator Daveinthebush's Avatar
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    Default Regs and reality

    We have always filleted halibut over here and left them in indentifiable pieces. Unless you fillet them, you can't fit them into a cooler and ice them down. Either that or leave it in the water or sun all day on a 80 mile trip back to port. If you stay over night you are allowed 4 halibut. So unless you fillet them, they are sitting in the open air for two days or in the water.

    Fillet them out to sea and leave the remains there.

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    Member AKBighorn's Avatar
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    Default

    We got here from there because the original post did not say halibut rather it said fish carcasses. The Ninilchik is a producer of King salmon. I took the original post to include carcasses that may drift downstream with the current. Of course if this is in fact all about boats and halibut carcasses well then I understand this issue in a different light. However usually when there becomes a problem, that is when something changes. I don't know if they are charging for use of the launch etc. but maybe they need to provide cleaning tables and/or catch basins for carcasses to be paid for with the collection of fees. After all isn't this how heavy traffic areas typically deal with these type of problems rather than calling the law and being threatened with fines etc. That's where I start to have a problem.

  19. #19
    Moderator Daveinthebush's Avatar
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    Default Lucky

    We are lucky over here in Valdez where there are fish cleaning stations, about 7, all over the harbor. All caracuses go into holding bins and using a skiff, they take the pens out to sea to dump them.

    Like I said lucky. Maybe the sportsmen that use the area could look into doing the same or at least let the state know they are needed and something positive can be done.

    Thye do make great shrimp bait, almost remains do.

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