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Thread: Solenoid Question

  1. #1

    Default Solenoid Question

    I have a Cole Hersee 24059 solenoid and a 50 amp rated trolling motor switch that I plan to use with my Power Winch pot puller. I looked up the solenoid online and don't see the little "jumper" (left side) in any of the images. Does anyone know the significance of the jumper? Do I need to remove it or just use as is?


  2. #2
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    wrong!!! disconnect that jumper from input terminal and ground to relay case . then disconnect switch wire on jumper and connect it to the battery input terminal.

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    That is an isolated ground solenoid hence the jumper one of the little terminals needs to be grounded and the other little terminal needs 12vdc to engage the solenoid.
    If this does not help enough you can call me. send me a pm.

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    Member AK Fishkiller's Avatar
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    So as an electrician this is what I would do leave the jumper in place but disconnect the foot switch from that terminal. Instead ground the foot switch on one side and that will provide the path for current engage the solenoid. The main post with the jumper goes directly to your battery and the other big main post goes to your trolling motor. This way your foot switch never sees 12 V directly.
    It's better to burn out than fade away.....

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    Member Akgramps's Avatar
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    It appears to me the jumper is required, when you operate the foot switch it energizes the solenoid, which requires 12v to do. If you eliminated the jumper you would have to provide power to the switch via a separate wire, this would require your foot switch be a DPDT (double pull double throw).
    The only advantage to doing it that way is you could have the switch leg wired through your battery switch so it would not be hot when the battery switch is off.

    This is of course assuming the B+ to the line side of solenoid is wired directly to the battery. Typically it is, as most of the time the battery shut off switch does not have heavy enough contacts to carry the load of a puller.

    Your foot switch in this situation is completing the ground path to the coil to energize the solenoid.
    “Nothing worth doing is easy”
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    Member Akgramps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akgramps View Post
    It appears to me the jumper is required, when you operate the foot switch it energizes the solenoid, which requires 12v to do. If you eliminated the jumper you would have to provide power to the switch via a separate wire.
    The only advantage to doing it that way is you could have the switch leg wired through your battery switch so it would not be hot when the battery switch is off.

    This is of course assuming the B+ to the line side of solenoid is wired directly to the battery. Typically it is, as most of the time the battery shut off switch does not have heavy enough contacts to carry the load of a puller.

    Your foot switch in this situation is completing the ground path to the coil to energize the solenoid.
    A DPDT is not necessary, I wish this site allowed editing any time......
    “Nothing worth doing is easy”
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    Member Bullelkklr's Avatar
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    I just installed both a battery shut off switch and a Powerwinch pot puller on my boat. I didn't use a solenoid. I used the foot switch that came with the puller and the two 40 amp (in series 80) fuses that came with it also. The battery shut off switch is rated at 200 amps so I wired the puller to the common on it along with all of my boat accessories. I ran #4 + and - cable from the battery (& battery shut off switch) up to the foot switch/puller

    What are you trying to accomplish with the solenoid? The two little bolts on the solenoid activate the relay/solenoid - the two big ones will close when you pull the contacts in with 12volts. Little ones get a positive and a negative, big ones tie the hot 12vDC+ to the puller. Like grandpa said - if you don't have the jumper, you need another 12Vdc+ source. If you have the foot switch and the fuses that came with the puller, you can eliminate the solenoid all together.

    You have to get 12vDC + and - from the battery. If over 25 foot the boating yacht club recommendation is 4 ga stranded marine wire. I used stranded, but polar wire didn't have marine cable (expensive too) so I used heat shrink with glue over the top of soldered connections (then liquid electrical tape, then 130C, then 33). They should be watertight connections.

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    Member Bullelkklr's Avatar
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    I looked at it again - the switch that came with my puller is much heavier duty that that little one - so I see why you need the solenoid. My switch was made to be inline with the power - eliminating the solenoid requirement. I think that what retired and grampy told is how I would do it. Put it on the bench and try it first to make sure. + on one little screw, - on the other and I bet your continuity in the big screws changes!

  9. #9

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    "What are you trying to accomplish with the solenoid?" ....I'm not sure. My foot switch pictured is rated @ 50 amp. The puller came with 40 amp breakers. And yes, I see in the instructions that no solenoid is used. The leads from the puller and my switch are 10 awg and I'll have a run of no more than 7 ft. at the most from the battery. I didn't want to use the switch that came with the puller because it is long and I didn't to rig up something that would require me to stand unevenly...sounds goofy, but I have a spinal thing going on and for me it is significant. The switch in the picture has a roller so you can operate hands/ feet free and I was going to mount it on the gunnels by the puller. What prompted me to ask about the solenoid is that I showed my set up to the guy @ Polar Wire and he said my switch leads would heat up...(so thats why I started thinking solenoid.) But why? They are the same awg as the leads from the puller...so if the switch leads would over heat, then why wouldn't the same thing happen to the factory installed leads? Most frustrating is that when it comes to things electrical, I am more dense than lead so it is hard for me understand the answers I have received. So far it looks like I've got about 3 different answers to the same question. Maybe I'll hook it up on the bench and wire my switch in direct...run if for half an hour and see if anything gets too hot. That would be a no load situation so I don't know how much that would tell me.

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    Member tustumena_lake's Avatar
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    http://www.colehersee.com/home/item/cat/167/24059/

    Found this. Which makes it look like your control switch isn't hooked up right to the coil as it would be a short across the coil leads once depressed as well as no path for current flow.

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    Member Akgramps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tustumena_lake View Post


    http://www.colehersee.com/home/item/cat/167/24059/

    Found this. Which makes it look like your control switch isn't hooked up right to the coil.
    Ok so 1 & 4 carry the load to the puller across the heavy contacts in the solenoid, either one can be B+, but for this example lets say 1 is B+ (battery) and 4 goes to the puller. 2 & 3 energize the solenoid to pull the plunger, if 2 is hot (B+) it can be feed from 1 or another B+ source can be used, then your switch interrupts the path to ground and connects to 3. Ground to the puller is not shown as it would simply run to the puller motor.
    “Nothing worth doing is easy”
    TR

  12. #12

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    Quote: "the switch that came with my puller is much heavier duty that that little one" Bull, does not the amp rating denote how heavy duty a switch is? Yes, my switch is encased in plastic, but it is rated @ 50 amps...it is a trolling motor switch and is designed for long periods of continuous use. I can't find the one that came with the puller so I can't say at what amperage it is rated. But..if my 50 amp switch is located past the 40 amp breaker that did come with the puller, the switch should never see 50 amps anyway...is that correct?
    Quote: "
    I used the foot switch that came with the puller and the two 40 amp (in series 80) fuses that came with it also." Mine came with 2 breakers, also. I thought the extra one was simply a spare as the instructions say nothing about hooking them up in series. ...Not arguing, just asking. Thanks.

  13. #13

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    OK...I hooked it per install instructions without solenoid and with the exception of substituting my switch for the one that came with the puller. I ran it no load for 35 minutes. None of the wires or switch housing heated up at all. The puller housing did warm up a little after about 20 minutes. I imagine it would be a different story with a load. At any rate, I think I'll can the solenoid and leave it this way. I'll keep a fire extinguisher adjacent and have a buoy anchor lift system at hand if the thing fails. Sure makes a lot of racket when running no load!

  14. #14
    Member Bullelkklr's Avatar
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    Your switch and solenoid will work fine.

    Remove the jumper - did it come with it or did you put it on there?

    Take +12VDC to one little top terminal #2, Take -12VDC to the other little terminal #3.

    Run an 8 guage cable from +12VDC on your Battery to terminal #1.

    Run another 8 guage cable from terminal #2 to the one of the puller leads (If you get them backwards it will run backwards) - use the RED one.

    Run anohter 8 guage cable from the black pot puller lead to the -12VDC on the Battery.

    Done deal.

    That puller pulls 80 amps at full load. You have to hook up the breaker/fuses in series. The Powerwinch Quick Catch pot puller is rated at 80 amps. A 50 amp foot switch would burn up and potentially start a fire so your solenoid will work great.

    Maybe you have a different puller than what I have? I have the quick catch pot puller http://www.powerwinch.com/powerwinch...action=support Page 12 of the installation manual shows the wiring diagram with the two fuses in series.

    You are going to have potential to burn up 10 guage wire even if it is within 7 feet....personally I would use 8ga. I know that the leads on the puller 10ga - but they are real short.

  15. #15
    Member Bullelkklr's Avatar
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    Oops - you have to put the switch in series with the =12VDC going to terminal 1

    The foot switch will supply positive 12VDC voltage to terminal #1 only (ie. you are only breaking the +12DC with the switch).

    sorry bout that

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    Member Bullelkklr's Avatar
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    O - just read your post #13.

    You did not test at full load.

    Put 150 pounds on the end of your rope and try it again. Your foot switch is going to melt.

    I would not run that motor at full load for more than 5 minutes or so...........just me sayin!

    I would not run it with zero load for 35 minutes either.

  17. #17
    Member Bullelkklr's Avatar
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    I would not interrupt the ground as grampy stated. I would interrupt the battery positive + instead. He is right though - you could steal the +12VDC from the terminal #1 if that is used as battery positive feed. Wouldn't do you much good unless the solenoid is real close to the switch...which it may be.

    Definately don't go smaller than 8 ga - and you really should use 6. See page 12 here again - at the quick catch pot puller manual and parts list link http://www.powerwinch.com/powerwinch...action=support

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    Member tustumena_lake's Avatar
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    solenoid.jpg

    Would you guys have a problem with the way I have this wired ? Fuse F1 would be sized for the control circuit wiring and Fuse/breaker F2 would be sized for the load. I was thinking it might be helpful to the OP to get a visual.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tustumena_lake View Post
    solenoid.jpg

    Would you guys have a problem with the way I have this wired ? Fuse F1 would be sized for the control circuit wiring and Fuse/breaker F2 would be sized for the load. I was thinking it might be helpful to the OP to get a visual.
    May I suggest, F2 should to be a slow trip Circuit Breaker And located next to the battery to protect the all of the + power cable.

  20. #20
    Member Bullelkklr's Avatar
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    The fuse on the motor for the puller needs to be located real close to the battery to prevent fire. The fuse on the foot switch can be much smaller (at whatever the rating of the solenoid coils is).

    Your diagram works, but I think that he needs more detail.

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