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Thread: pioneer x-stream

  1. #1
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    Default pioneer x-stream

    Clever name. I'd been idly dreaming about picking up a pro-pioneer one day. SOTAR still sells but Larry doesn't. He sells a urethane shell, chinese made boat with fuller ends for nearly the same dollars (The Pioneer X-Stream). I have never owned a raft. Anyone help me with the + and - of these two designs?

    Pro-pioneer. (I wonder if Larry's own successful marketing of this version might now work against his new design?) Followed by a link to the X-stream. I like the lines but know nothing about how the materials compare.

    http://soar1.com/soar_pro.htm

    http://www.pristineventures.com/prod...-x-stream.html

  2. #2

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    North61, I've had growing concerns about SOAR for some time now.

    1..In the last few years SOAR has been trying to sell that business and has no given no guidelines for how my designs would fit in to that potential sale. The owner says it will be up to the buyer how they wish to work with me to build the Pioneer and Magnum models.

    2. I've had customers who needed warranty replacements for blown tubes and/or I-beams, and those boats ended up being replaced by me for customer service guarantee...still nothing from SOAR to cover those issues. My position on this issue is if I'm going to have to cover warranty repairs or replcements, I want to work with a factory directly vs. going through a middle-man company with financial strains.

    3. SOAR has stated that they will not honor warranty guarantees on the Levitator, so it appears that SOAR's focus is more on their bottom line and less on customer service.

    4. The design itself of the Pro Pioneer and Magnum has always bothered me a little bit...the floor being made of neoprene makes gliding (dragging) over rocks an issue, since rubber grips rocks whereas plastic materials glide without friction. The bow and stern design concept on the Pro Pioneer and Magnums have tapered ends that prevent roughly 2 feet on each end from these boats from being used as load displacement.

    5. The floor design also drops below the side tubes about 4", which makes this boat less stable when lightly loaded. Inherently, the heavier these boats are loaded the more stable they become as the side tubes touch the water.

    6. Neoprene and hypalon are inherently heavier than plastic material, and our constant focus is to build superior products that shed weight where possible.

    These are just some reasons we've moved away from SOAR manufacturing.

    The pluses and minuses of these two designs by comparisons are:

    Pioneer X-stream has a drop-stitch floor design that offers a more rigid and easier to repair floor that is removable (floor weight 16 lbs) so load displacement in small aircraft is more attractive.

    The Pioneer X-stream has a tapered bow and stern from 15" to 19" at each end, which provides a greater weight capacity.

    The Pioneer X-stream weighs 65 lbs with two seat slings attached, whereas the Pro weighs 85 lbs with the two wood seats. The Magnum weighs 105 lbs with the seats. Weight savings is huge with the new design.

    The Pioneer X-stream is made of 30-oz PVC and is fully self-bailing, so repairs are easier in the field and will have less friction in dragging scenarios.

    The Pioneer X-stream has an 1800-lb capacity, the Pro has 1500-lb allowance.

    The Pioneer X-stream is about $300 less in cost

    The Pioneer X-stream has a 5-year warranty. Any replacements required will be handled by me at Pristine Ventures immediately and dealing with the factory occur on my timeline, not yours.

    The Pioneer X-stream has clean lines, no sloppy seams like is often common with the SOAR boats.

    In the end I figure that if I have to guarantee warranty repairs or replacements anyway, why not handle the production and make the design exactly what I need (for customers) rather than paying a middle man to build a design that is limited by the taiwanese factory. Just makes the most sense to me.

    My constant goal is to keep costs as low as possible and to build quality lightweight products that customers appreciate and demand. Technology has improved PVC manufacturing and also allows intrinsic designs that are ideal and efficient for Alaska waterways and logistics.

    Hope this helps:

    Pioneer X-stream website photo.jpg

  3. #3
    Member BluNosDav's Avatar
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    Default

    I know this doesn't help a guy in Whitehorse, but, I saw a gray Pioneer X-Stream at Sportsmans Warehouse in Wasilla yesterday. Interesting raft!
    "Luckily, enforcement reads these forums, and likely will peruse this one...Especially after a link of it is forwarded to them....." - AlaskaHippie.

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    Thanks a lot. I took out my Strahan float hunting book and read up on the rubber vs plastic debate and it looks like the x-stream might be the way to go! Thanks for the reply. Better to work with an Alaskan than a continental supplier anyway.

  5. #5
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    Larry> How tight does the new x-stream roll, Is it a bit more bulky than your SOTAR design the pro-pioneer?

  6. #6
    Member BluNosDav's Avatar
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    Hey North,

    The Pro Pioneer is made by a company called SOAR (Somewhere On A River), that primarily uses Hypalon (rubber) to build it's line of canoes & rafts overseas.

    SOTAR is a different company that builds it's rafts, catarafts, and kayaks out of Urethane (plastic) in the USA. "Goeaux" here on AOD is SOTAR's dealer in Alaska.

    Two very different building materials and companies. Just wanted to let you know, since the two names are often confused.

    Thanx, Dave.
    "Luckily, enforcement reads these forums, and likely will peruse this one...Especially after a link of it is forwarded to them....." - AlaskaHippie.

  7. #7

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    The Pioneer X-stream and Pro Pioneer are close to the same size when rolled up. The Pioneer X-stream can be rolled up with or without the floor. With the floor out, it rolls up to a wad about 21" tall X 20" wide X 15" deep. The floor is 6" wide x by 21" long.

    If rolled together, it adds about 4" to the width and depth.

    The warmer the temperatures the smaller you can roll the PVC, whereas hypalon rolls are fairly consistent regardless of temps.

    larry

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    Quote Originally Posted by BluNosDav View Post
    Hey North,

    The Pro Pioneer is made by a company called SOAR (Somewhere On A River), that primarily uses Hypalon (rubber) to build it's line of canoes & rafts overseas.

    SOTAR is a different company that builds it's rafts, catarafts, and kayaks out of Urethane (plastic) in the USA. "Goeaux" here on AOD is SOTAR's dealer in Alaska.

    Two very different building materials and companies. Just wanted to let you know, since the two names are often confused.

    Thanx, Dave.
    Thanks..I knew that but had a brain fart. (it happens)

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Bartlett View Post
    The Pioneer X-stream and Pro Pioneer are close to the same size when rolled up. The Pioneer X-stream can be rolled up with or without the floor. With the floor out, it rolls up to a wad about 21" tall X 20" wide X 15" deep. The floor is 6" wide x by 21" long.

    If rolled together, it adds about 4" to the width and depth.

    The warmer the temperatures the smaller you can roll the PVC, whereas hypalon rolls are fairly consistent regardless of temps.

    larry
    Great information thanks again. Just have to find some extra money laying about the house. Where did I leave that 2000.00 bill again? I'll start saving I guess.

  10. #10
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    One last question from me...wish I had thought of these together! Welded or glued seams?

  11. #11
    webmaster Michael Strahan's Avatar
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    Larry,

    How is the floor secured to the tubes? And how easy is it to remove? Can you post some pics?

    Thanks!

    -Mike
    LOST CREEK COMPANY: Specializing in Alaska hunt consultation and planning for do-it-yourself hunts, fully outfitted hunts, and guided hunts.
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    Member Vince's Avatar
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    Damit Larry... You got me wanting again.... And i still dont have the last one i want....



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  13. #13

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    here's a video link that demonstrates assembly and repair of the Pioneer X-stream

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuZ1f...ature=youtu.be

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Bartlett View Post
    here's a video link that demonstrates assembly and repair of the Pioneer X-stream

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuZ1f...ature=youtu.be
    Awesome. Can't wait to see some video of it in action. Have you tested it in the field yet Larry?

  15. #15

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    I haven't drag-tested the final production model. Last year I had five versions built before working out all the current features...each one performed better than the last, but by hunting season I had spent four months with my PR-49 filming trips, so this year I'll rock the X-stream and get some killer footage.

  16. #16

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    Awesome stuff Larry, when my life situation limits my packrafting trips, I'll certainly look into this setup. Whats not to like about a raft that you can still check on the airlines as its sub 50 pounds without the floor (not be accident I'm sure) and still haul a moose and two people. Pretty sweet for sure!! I'll have to get one down the road but for now while I'm footloose and fancy free I'll keep going with hiking in and using the Big Rig and PR-49....

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    Larry it's great to see so much innovation from a Northern company! It looks great in the video and the floor design looks pretty ingenious. I have an old wrestling injury in the upper back which sometimes limits my rowing (but I can paddle) but the oar rig looks first rate. Tempted!

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    Default pro pioneer vs x stream

    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Bartlett View Post
    I haven't drag-tested the final production model. Last year I had five versions built before working out all the current features...each one performed better than the last, but by hunting season I had spent four months with my PR-49 filming trips, so this year I'll rock the X-stream and get some killer footage.
    Would like to see the pro pioneer and the x stream both loaded with a moose and see how they handle the load side by side that would be a awsome real world comparison with video footage

  19. #19
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    Was just at Sportsman's Warehouse in Anchorage and they have one upstairs in the whitewater section. Very nice looking raft. Made the 13' Otter look sort of wimpy.

  20. #20
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    Took my new Pioneer X-stream out on the Matanuska this weekend. Carrying two men and two days worth of gear it handled beautifully. Kudos to Larry Bartlett for a fine product. Next I'll be conducting some field testing to determine how it handles with an extreme load (hunter + gear + moose). I'm particularly interested in measuring at what point water begins coming in through the bailing holes given their location. I can't think of a better way to start the summer!

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