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Thread: .454 Casull/.45 Colt questions....help please

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    Default .454 Casull/.45 Colt questions....help please

    Bought a Freedom Arms .454 Casull that was suppose to have a .45 Colt cylinder that turned out to be a .45 Auto....45 Colt is my go to gun, I'm geared up for that caliber....are there any issues with running .45 Colt through the . 454 Casull cylinder that I should be aware of..? any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated..

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    Member JoeJ's Avatar
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    Nice Revolver you have there.

    The only problem I've heard of is the lead and residue buildup at the throat step within the cylinder from firing the shorter 45 Colt cartridge.

    The FA chambers/tolerances are very tight, so anything just a tad out of spec (carbon/lead buildup) will cause a problem of some sort.

    The problem with firing 45 Colts in the FA 454 is when you don't clean the charge holes real good after shooting 45 Colt and then attempt to chamber a 454 - it may not chamber due to carbon buildup and if you do force the cartridges into the cylinder - you may experience higher pressures than desired, which might cause a problem, especially with max type loads.

    If you never shoot 454, I wouldn't see a problem - and if you do shoot 454's - then you need to clean those charge/cylinder holes very well prior to chambering and shooting a 454 and that will resolve the issue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oneriver View Post
    Bought a Freedom Arms .454 Casull that was suppose to have a .45 Colt cylinder that turned out to be a .45 Auto....45 Colt is my go to gun, I'm geared up for that caliber....are there any issues with running .45 Colt through the . 454 Casull cylinder that I should be aware of..? any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated..


    I used to fire alot of 45colt loads in my ruger SRH that was a 454 casull with no issues. As the previous poster said you will need to clean the cylinder really well to clean out carbon build up and fouling to be able to chamber 454 casull rounds without forcing them in but if you only fire 45colt all the time its a non issue and I got very good accuracy out of mine with a 2x M8 leupold and 45colt ruger only loads. You can also probably have the 45acp cylinder rechambered to 45colt if memory is correct it can be done pretty cheap. I think the 45 colt case is a little larger than 45acp so it chould clean up just fine.

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    I've been trying to find the same answer as I now have a Rossi levergun in 454 Casull. I have new 454 Casull brass but there has been zero small rifle primers for that brass in town for months. That leaves me with only my 45 Colt components. From what I have found out in addition to the lead buildup is a corrosion factor as well that can occur behind the lead/carbon ring that can if not cleaned out after each use over time damage the chamber. This supposedly occurs mainly firing the shorter rounds in a damp environment. There is also another thing I read concerning running hot loads of 45 Colt is that can damage the chamber due to extreme heat in the gap space over time. Whether this is true or not I don't know, hopefully not because I really bought this rifle for using high pressure 454 Casull loads and with those 50-60 KPSI pressures I would want a chamber is very good shape. Meanwhile I am shooting 8.5 gr of Unique through it with the 45 Colt brass and cleaning it with a wire brush wrapped in chore boy which seems to be keeping the chamber clean. Do have to wonder tho why FA would make a cylinder for 45 Colt if they felt it was okay to feed them in the 454 cylinder.

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    Every company I know states its ok to shoot 45colt in their 454 and S&W says so even in theirr 460. No different than shooting 38spec in 357 or 44spec in 44mag
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oneriver View Post
    Bought a Freedom Arms .454 Casull that was suppose to have a .45 Colt cylinder that turned out to be a .45 Auto....45 Colt is my go to gun, I'm geared up for that caliber....are there any issues with running .45 Colt through the . 454 Casull cylinder that I should be aware of..? any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated..
    I shoot 45 Colt in all of my 454's and I have never ever experienced a problem

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    I have a FA 454 and they do state to not shoot 45 colt in the 454. I have shot the 45 colt in my other 454s. My guess is FA doesn't want to hear of any issues if the cylinders get gummed up. The FA revolver has very tight tolerances, more so than any of my other revolvers, and the shells have to be very clean or they stick a little getting them in and out. I just started shooting a reduced load 454 and save the 45 colt for my blackwawk. It is also nice when cleaning brass to not have to sort out the 45 and 454 after a range session.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oneriver View Post
    Bought a Freedom Arms .454 Casull that was suppose to have a .45 Colt cylinder that turned out to be a .45 Auto....45 Colt is my go to gun, I'm geared up for that caliber....are there any issues with running .45 Colt through the . 454 Casull cylinder that I should be aware of..? any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated..
    Well there is an issue (or can be) with shooting 45 Colt in a 454, due th the extreme pressure of a 454 it isnít quite like shooting 38sp in a 357mag. As said you get a buildup at the end of the case (lead and carbon) and if not cleaned out when you fire the 65.000psi 454 in the chamber some of the hard granular carbon gets embedded in the cylinder wall. It takes many many cycles of this to become an issue but it will someday, you will get a ringed cylinder bore, a ring where the embedded carbon was ground into the wall over and over. Then you start getting hard extraction because the brass expands into that ring aria and the little bulge is larger than the part you need to shove it through to get it out.
     
    As long as you clean between shooting 45 colt and 454 it shouldn't be an issue and even if you donít it will take a lot of rounds for it to become an issue. I shoot 45 Colt, 454 and 460 in Smiths and Rugers, Iím not the most fastidious gun cleaner by a long way but I do give a quick wipe usuley and have had no issues in years of doing it. But it is important to understand there is a reason FR says not to do it.
     
    Now sense you have a 45acp cylinder I may (depending on how it was made) be able to cut that take 45 Colt and still also shoot the 45acp. If itís cut for clips it may or may not work depending on how it was cut. If it headspaces the 45acp off the crimp now I should be able to cut new 45 Colt chambers in it then if you want to shoot the cheaper 45acp it could also be cut for clips.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADfields View Post
    Well there is an issue (or can be) with shooting 45 Colt in a 454, due th the extreme pressure of a 454 it isnít quite like shooting 38sp in a 357mag. As said you get a buildup at the end of the case (lead and carbon) and if not cleaned out when you fire the 65.000psi 454 in the chamber some of the hard granular carbon gets embedded in the cylinder wall. It takes many many cycles of this to become an issue but it will someday, you will get a ringed cylinder bore, a ring where the embedded carbon was ground into the wall over and over. Then you start getting hard extraction because the brass expands into that ring aria and the little bulge is larger than the part you need to shove it through to get it out.
     
    As long as you clean between shooting 45 colt and 454 it shouldn't be an issue and even if you donít it will take a lot of rounds for it to become an issue. I shoot 45 Colt, 454 and 460 in Smiths and Rugers, Iím not the most fastidious gun cleaner by a long way but I do give a quick wipe usuley and have had no issues in years of doing it. But it is important to understand there is a reason FR says not to do it.
     
    Now sense you have a 45acp cylinder I may (depending on how it was made) be able to cut that take 45 Colt and still also shoot the 45acp. If itís cut for clips it may or may not work depending on how it was cut. If it headspaces the 45acp off the crimp now I should be able to cut new 45 Colt chambers in it then if you want to shoot the cheaper 45acp it could also be cut for clips.
    ADFields,

    Can you setup a single action to run moon clips? I assume you can but wouldnt it be a pain to pull the cylinder out each time to get your brass out or do they make a single setup for each piece of brass that allows you to dump them one at a time out of the cartridge loading gate? Not trying to be smart I am asking because it seems like a pain but Im unsure of how it would work out?

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    Quote Originally Posted by kobuk View Post
    I have a FA 454 and they do state to not shoot 45 colt in the 454. I have shot the 45 colt in my other 454s. My guess is FA doesn't want to hear of any issues if the cylinders get gummed up. The FA revolver has very tight tolerances, more so than any of my other revolvers, and the shells have to be very clean or they stick a little getting them in and out. I just started shooting a reduced load 454 and save the 45 colt for my blackwawk. It is also nice when cleaning brass to not have to sort out the 45 and 454 after a range session.


    I have multiple FA-83's and have never ever experienced a problem shooting 45 Colt in 454's. FA loves to sell extra cylinders

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    Quote Originally Posted by YotaTRD4x4 View Post
    ADFields,

    Can you setup a single action to run moon clips? I assume you can but wouldnt it be a pain to pull the cylinder out each time to get your brass out or do they make a single setup for each piece of brass that allows you to dump them one at a time out of the cartridge loading gate? Not trying to be smart I am asking because it seems like a pain but Im unsure of how it would work out?
    the .45 Auto get it's head space from case mouth and you unload them through the gate..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oneriver View Post
    the .45 Auto get it's head space from case mouth and you unload them through the gate..
    Oneriver,

    I understand the headspace comes from the case mouth. I was asking if moons clips are an option on the single action setup to shoot 45 colt and 45acp with moon clips. I know the factory setup ejects one at a time out of the loading gate but wanted to pick adfields brain as to how this setup would work on a single action. I know on a double action with swing out cylinder you can do it and they make 2rd 3rd and 6rd and so on moon clip setups but with a single action I would think it may be a pain to have to pull the cylinder to switch out cases as they would all be clipped together and that would be the only way to get them out. Not trying to be an ass just trying to be more detailed and trying to learn something in the process.

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    Quote Originally Posted by YotaTRD4x4 View Post
    ADFields,

    Can you setup a single action to run moon clips? I assume you can but wouldnt it be a pain to pull the cylinder out each time to get your brass out or do they make a single setup for each piece of brass that allows you to dump them one at a time out of the cartridge loading gate? Not trying to be smart I am asking because it seems like a pain but Im unsure of how it would work out?
    You have the concept, for moons you would need to pull the cylinder out, major pain. Set up for individual ďCĒ clips you leave a bump to headspace the Colt and cut a C to let the clip on acp fall in deeper. So you have the minor pain of indexing the clip around the bump so acp goes in all the way . . . And the pain of fiddling with the clips naturally but in normal times there used to be some cheap 45acp around to be worth the pain.
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    For more detail, it headspaces acp off the crimp so most likely the acp cylinder is longer so as not to have a rimless case head hanging out looking odd. So first Iíd turn some off the end of the cylinder to establish a headspace surface for the Colt. Then ream the chambers to Colt chambers, at this point it is a colt cylinder. Then mill that just like you would a double action cylinder for full moons leaving an aria on the outside to catch the rim of the Colt. Now if you can find full or half clips that match the hole pattern of the Freedom Arms you could use them. You can use the single round ďCĒ clips that are becoming hard to find or cut apart moons for your ďCĒ clips. I havenít looked but I bet there are C snap rings in the industrial supply world the right size out there that would work too.
    Andy
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    ADFields,

    Ok I understand now what you are saying thanks for the info. I get what you mean I guess if someone wants it to work with multiple calibers they probably would deal with the pain of the clips. Thanks for clearing my head I couldn't quite figure how it would work.

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    If I made .454's, I would also want to suck more money for a separate cylinder if I wanted to take advantage but I can't do that.
    You will never harm the gun in 100 years. Just clean between cases. It is only some crud. Even a trimmed to length .454 case will leave crud at the start of the throat entrance without harm, just dirt.
    No other gun maker says you need another cylinder and it is NOT because they are cut to minimums. It is to pry open your wallet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bfrshooter View Post
    If I made .454's, I would also want to suck more money for a separate cylinder if I wanted to take advantage but I can't do that.
    You will never harm the gun in 100 years. Just clean between cases. It is only some crud. Even a trimmed to length .454 case will leave crud at the start of the throat entrance without harm, just dirt.
    No other gun maker says you need another cylinder and it is NOT because they are cut to minimums. It is to pry open your wallet.
    Shoot your gun; clean your gun; be happy; don't worry.
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