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Thread: P.O. Akley 7mm IMP ?

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    Member marshall's Avatar
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    Default P.O. Akley 7mm IMP ?

    I mentioned this rifle on the other 7mm Akley thread. A co-worker had described it as a 7mmAI. He sent these two cell phone pics after getting home this morning.

    It's plane to see this is not a Remington bolt rifle as he thought, not even close. It also doesn't say 7mmAI. It says 7MMIMP, even more confusing. So many possibilities, I will cast it once it's in my possession.

    It looks like a classic, I'm looking forward to working with it.

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    You're in for some really good fun. Sorry I'm nowhere near my notes, but I recall a little from my limited loading for the round. At that time I followed up on experience with the standard 7x57, using the old surplus 4831 and 160 grain bullets (both speer and nosler IIRC). The case was pretty darned near full, and vels would make a hot 284 very nervous. Never compared case capacities, but I'm betting it's closer to 284 than 7-08.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marshall View Post
    I mentioned this rifle on the other 7mm Akley thread. A co-worker had described it as a 7mmAI. He sent these two cell phone pics after getting home this morning.

    It's plane to see this is not a Remington bolt rifle as he thought, not even close. It also doesn't say 7mmAI. It says 7MMIMP, even more confusing. So many possibilities, I will cast it once it's in my possession.

    It looks like a classic, I'm looking forward to working with it.

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    That is 100% for sure a military mauser action that its built on since you can see the thumb cut out on the left side of the receiver for ease of loading with stripper clips. What type Mauser it is I have no idea but I would say that shield should be familiar with someone who knows mausers well enough. I couldnt tell you what caliber it is without a chamber casting to measure and see.

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    Quote Originally Posted by YotaTRD4x4 View Post
    That is 100% for sure a military mauser action that its built on since you can see the thumb cut out on the left side of the receiver for ease of loading with stripper clips. What type Mauser it is I have no idea but I would say that shield should be familiar with someone who knows mausers well enough. I couldnt tell you what caliber it is without a chamber casting to measure and see.

    I'm leaning in that direction too. I'm hoping that it is a total custom build. Perhaps that will mean it has been trued, tweaked and adjusted to perfection. I will chamber cast it as soon as I have it in my possession. It appears that the P.O. Akley stamp resembles a production marking. The 7MMIMP portion appears to be hammered in by a smith after chambering the barrel. A complete disassembly, inspection, cleaning, polishing and oiling will follow. Then the gathering of components will begin, research has begun simply by posting here.

    I'm assuming I will need to fire form brass, kind of a bummer sending 50 shots down range to expand cases, thinking wasted barrel life here. The load development will start after those cases are finished and prepped.

    The rifle owner has inherited prime mule deer and elk land in the Tonto national forest too. His grand fathers land is a lush paradise in a valley with a natural spring and creek feeding an orchard with a variety of apple, plum, pecan and walnut trees. This land is the only private piece in the middle of no where. The grandfather bought it back in the 1940's. I will get a chance to see the lay of the land next Wednesday. Perhaps he can complete this project with a nice Buck or Bull taken from his grandfathers land with his grandfathers rifle. I will do my part for sure...

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    It sure looks like it was done right and not just a bubba job. I can't say for sure that it would have been trued etc but it can still be an excellent shooter even if it wasn't and has a good barrel. As far as bore wear just do a little search on the cream of wheat fire forming. You need no bullets for this method. I have done it with a 30-30 ackley improved and it was pretty easy. You will need a fast burning pistol powder though. I don't know how much you will need but research and I'm sure someone has already done it. I used some red dot I won't say how much as I can't remember for sure and then I filled the case to the top with creak of wheat afterwards and used an old candle to cap it off so it wouldn't come out then I we t to the range and fired all the 50 I made up and it really won't have any effect on the barrel and it was easy to clean up. I saw the P.O.Ackley on the barrel. Could be that it was built by Ackley or with a barrel from Ackley. It looks like a nice old rifle and I would bet it is a good shooter just by looking at it.

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    It's a German 98 has the German proof marks. Eagle stamp and gew 98... I will bet good money that came out of P.O Ackley shop he had in utah, as far as fire forming no need just fire 7x57 through it...

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    Quote Originally Posted by 323 View Post
    It's a German 98 has the German proof marks. Eagle stamp and gew 98... I will bet good money that came out of P.O Ackley shop he had in utah, as far as fire forming no need just fire 7x57 through it...
    Thanks, I have a hunch that it may have been touched by Akley. Word has it the grandfather enjoyed quality items. Utah is just up the road, it could've easily been built by Akley.

    I've also heard that production 7X57 Mauser can be shot in 7X57 Akley Improved rifles. My intention is to work up a load for the grandson so I will need to acquire the brass and fire form it so I can do a correct load with the improved cases. Since the barrel only says 7mmIMP I will need to confirm that it is indeed a 7X57 AI, casting will solve that.

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    Marshall,
    Good luck with the rifle and it looks like a great one. Let us know how she shoots when you get to that point

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    I decided to fill the chamber with ear mold material and let it set up a few minutes, it released with zero clean up required.

    The ear mold material made a fine chamber cast. After comparing the dimensions to an Ackley 7x57mm Improved technical drawing I was able to confirm the rifle is in fact chambered in 7X57 AI.

    Norma brass is on the way. I look forward to fire forming and working up a nice deer load. Results to follow in a couple of weeks.


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    Load some inexpensive bullets and go for it. Won't hurt the barrel.
    Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre minds. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Albert Einstein

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    This evening I tried the cream of wheat technique with some .243Win brass in the 7x57 IMP. I know the brass is to short but I'm just trying this as an experiment in fire forming the body, shoulder and neck. A small change was to use grits instead of cream of wheat. This process worked remarkably well.

    I filled four cases with Hodgdon Titegroup in 7gr, 9gr, 11gr and 13gr samples. On top of that charge I put a 3/4" square patch size piece of thick paper towel as a wad packing. I dumped grits on top of that and packed it with the smooth chuck end of a drill bit. With the grits about 1/8" below the top of the neck I melted three drops of candle wax to seal the load making it air tight and spill proof, it worked great.

    All of the samples measure exactly the same at the neck, body and head. I'm going to use the 11gr charge when the new proper 7x57 Norma brass shows up in a few days. The lighter charges expanded the cases just fine but the shoulder is better defined with the 11gr and 13gr loads.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marshall View Post
    ...but the shoulder is better defined....
    That's going to be be key. In my experience if the shoulder isn't formed completely (as in rounded edges part way round) you have to anneal before loading, in order to get them to finish the job on the next firing, even a full pressure one. Might sound crazy, but the fire forming "work hardens" the brass enough that you can be stuck with a rounded shoulder. Best to get it completely formed on the first fire-forming.

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    I have a 7x57IMP built on a pre-64 M70. I used Cream of Wheat or sometimes just tissue paper stuffed in the case to fire form. The last time I was reloading for it vel's with 140 gr. NP's were in excess of 3000 fps. Pretty potent little case. Rifle also came with a 6.5x57IMP barrel which I never tried reloading for. I think you will be pleased with the chambering. Good luck.
    "Actions speak louder than words - 'nough said"

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    Quote Originally Posted by shphtr View Post
    Rifle also came with a 6.5x57IMP barrel which I never tried reloading for. I think you will be pleased with the chambering. Good luck.
    That would be a nice zippy round for sheep hunting...

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    Left to right in the picture below a .243 Win, a fire formed .243Win in the 7X57 Ackley Improved chamber, a 7-08mm, a 7-08mm fire formed and a new Norma 7X57.

    The .243 and 7-08 formed just fine but the necks are to short to be practical. Comparing the fire formed brass to a virgin Norma 7X57 case it's easy to see the additional body length and the longer neck.

    Currently the rifle is apart. I'm making a repair to the stock, it's cracked in the grip area. Once that repair is completed I intend to refinish the stock and fire form the new Norma brass. Load development will follow.

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    Kinda resemble TCU cases to my eye!

    Keep us posted. I have a spare action laying around, and my mind has been all over the place on how to use it. Until you started this thread, the 7x57AI had slipped my mind. Good prospect.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrownBear View Post
    Kinda resemble TCU cases to my eye!

    Keep us posted. I have a spare action laying around, and my mind has been all over the place on how to use it. Until you started this thread, the 7x57AI had slipped my mind. Good prospect.

    I will BrownBear, there seems to be very little interest in this thread. I will finish what I started and post as I proceed.

    The stock has held me up. After removing the action I found a crack that runs from the recoil lug area through the magazine box and trigger area then down through the grip exiting on the right side of the butt. It is basically split in half from just behind the grip up to the recoil lug. I mixed up some Smooth On EA-40 then thinned it with acetone and injected it through all the cracks until there was squeeze out in all areas. I then clamped the wood and put it in a bowyer's hot box to cook at 180 degrees for four hours. Next I intend to drill about four inches deep from the rear of the trigger area into the butt and insert a 3/8" diameter hard wood dowel pin epoxied into place as a reinforcement.

    http://www.smooth-on.com/Epoxy,-Sili...179/index.html

    Clean up, refinish and bedding starts this weekend. After all that I will start the fire forming and load development so it may take a few weeks to have any results ready to post. Everything I've read about this cartridge sounds promising, I'm looking forward to finishing it.

    I'm planning to use the newly designed improved BC 150gr Long Range Accubond bullet in the Norma cases with BR primers. This should be a nice set up.

    http://www.nosler.com/Bullets/AccuBond_LongRange.aspx

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    Sounds good all around, from repairs to load development.

    One thought- Though not usual for a light round like this, would a through-bolt behind the lug help take some of the brunt of recoil and help assure against the unlikely reopening the split?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrownBear View Post
    Sounds good all around, from repairs to load development.

    One thought- Though not usual for a light round like this, would a through-bolt behind the lug help take some of the brunt of recoil and help assure against the unlikely reopening the split?
    I'm considering a through bolt too. The stock is an awsome piece of figured walnut. The grain isn't really aligned in the typical fashion. It was hand made decades ago. I think the action was loose at some point in time and fired enough to drive the back and start the damage.

    I too feel that the recoil of this firearm is going to be light, lighter than a .308Win. I'm guessing here but it seems to be a reasonable assumption. I want very much to save the stock for the owner and I 'm pretty sure it will be a good reliable repair.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marshall View Post
    I'm considering a through bolt too. The stock is an awsome piece of figured walnut. The grain isn't really aligned in the typical fashion. It was hand made decades ago. I think the action was loose at some point in time and fired enough to drive the back and start the damage.

    I too feel that the recoil of this firearm is going to be light, lighter than a .308Win. I'm guessing here but it seems to be a reasonable assumption. I want very much to save the stock for the owner and I 'm pretty sure it will be a good reliable repair.
    I had a 7x57 AI yrs back beautiful rifle nice piece of black walnut. That thing kicked so **** bad I sent it down the road... I was better off shooting a 7mag... I heard not long after I sent it down the road the stock cracked in the tang area and had to be restocked... Man did that thing kick though...

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