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Thread: King Crab Citation

  1. #1
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    Default King Crab Citation

    The fine on this seems kinda low given the amount of crab and their value. Doesn't seem like it would be much of a deterrent if someone was selling them...Figured I could post this trooper report since it doesn't name anyone.


    Location: Juneau
    Case number:
    Type: Take Red King Crab without Permit
    Text: On 3-1-13 Alaska Wildlife Troopers in Juneau contacted a 17 year old male juvenile that was returning from crabbing in the area of Coghlan Island. Investigation revealed the subject had retained eight red king crab from the waters of 11-A. The juvenile was issued a $510 bailable citation for retaining the crab during a time when red king crab was not open to fishing under the authority of a permit. He was given 30 days to respond to the citation in the District Court at Juneau.

  2. #2

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    Probably about right, considering his age. Too much more and the parents would have to kick in, but a good parent is going to make him "work off" the $510. I'm willing to bet that he comes out of court with some kind of conditions about not screwing up again for several years, maybe even taking his fishing license for a year with a threat of longer if he doesn't fly straight and level. THERE is the real deterrent for a kid. Adults, too.

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    Member kodiakrain's Avatar
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    that is interesting,...not sure what the current value of King Crab is,...but on the black market, if someone was doing that,...

    Eight crabs, is a fair amount of value,...seems like more than $500

    I hate to "Imagine," too much here, black market fishing, etc,....

    when a 17yr old may have been more likely sneaking some crabs home
    maybe the judge "Discerned that"
    which would be a cool judgement, $500 on a kid, is enough to discourage any more messing around
    probably for the rest of his life,..

    now if it was a 37 yr old,...they should have whacked him a lot harder,...right ??

    Eight King Crabs tho,...that's not just a small mistake, and a Valuable Resource,...so others watching, might be thinking
    that's not such a bad risk
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    Moderator bkmail's Avatar
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    In comparison, it seems like alot.
    A friend shot an illegal moose and only paid a $200- fine. He was a 50 YO out of stater too.
    8 crabs.....doesn't sound like a black market operation to me. Sounds like he wanted some crab for easter dinner!

    BK

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    Adjudication is always inconsistent with defined regulations due to the whims of any any elected or appointed court official. That's why we elect and appoint, and this is the American way, and it is usually the fairest and best we can do.

    Best advice?

    Don't break the law and you'll never be cast into the whim...

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    This is a fishery that was closed down around 10 years ago and just recently had come back but in a very limited fashion the fine should be closer to 1000 and a loss of a crab permit in 11a for the next year (if we get one)

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    if it was for a black market deal you would be correct , but it looks like the kid was getting supper, most people in there younger day's have dunthings like this so I agree it is about right , after saying that I hope this is the frist time offence , if not this young man is paying the game
    it should be more but it is out of our hands an settled ,

  8. #8

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    $510 is a lot of money! Since when is that not a big fine? For a kid working minimum wage, that's a bunch of work hours after the gov takes it's share.

    Why are people so giddy for the government to HAMMER people with huge fines?

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    Member L. G.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 270ti View Post
    Why are people so giddy for the government to HAMMER people with huge fines?
    I don't get "giddy" but two things to consider:

    1. Is the fine enuff for others to be deterred from similar violations?

    2. Poachers all stealing everyones resource. This is an area where, when open, the bag limit is two legal males per household per year. So he poached 4 household yearly limits.

    To put that in perspective for you, that'd be like someone taking 20 (24?) deer illegally down your way. You don't think that's a big deal?

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    My brother in law's dad was just in town and bought a couple king crab at that new seafood place by the Nugget mall. $200 each. So this kid took approximately $1600 in retail crab. And that's just what he got caught with. I doubt he was caught his first time out poaching.

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    Member homerdave's Avatar
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    I'm just in it for the rep points.
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    While I in now way condone what he did there are kids out there dealing drugs and destroying things and they don't get a 500.00 fine. I guess if it was my kid I would be very miffed that he was poaching and relieved he was in the outdoors fishing and not dealing drugs, shooting at people, beating the snot out of them. or robbing them to buy more drugs

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    Obviously, the kid was poaching crabs to trade for meth and stolen guns. He should have been put away.
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    Dave you may be right! Prison may have been the way to go. I am just in it for the rep points like you Dave LOL I tried to rep ya Dave but I have to spread it around they tell me

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    Surprised no one has used the DLP defense yet.
    I mean an attack of crabs, especially KING crabs, could lead to the Deadliest Scratch....
    “Life has become immeasurably better since I have been forced to stop taking it seriously.” ― H.S.T.
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  16. #16

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    I don't like the government using people as "examples", to deter crime. The punishment should fit the crime, and "deterents" are always subjective. If somone was running an illegal crab ring, a $15000 fine wouldn't deter him. But, an over zealous teenager shouldn't have to forfit over 80hrs of wage for making a mistake in judgment, for freaking crabs. My memory hasn't totally lapsed from when I was a young/dumb 17 year old.

    But again, this begs a much different question. Why can't a 17 year old, go out, catch 8 king crabs, and sell them for $1600? What has happened to Alaska, and Alaska fisheries where there is no opportunity for a hard working kid to catch halibut, salmon, crab, and shrimp and be able to pay his way through college or get a start in life? Anybody look at what a SE King Crab permit goes for? Lets see.. This youngster can buy a Crab Permit for 205k. yeah, that's realistic. Or, can buy 1000# of IFQ (halibut) so he can sell. That'll cost him 43k.
    Sure you can say that he can crew on a boat.. but with the percentage he'll get, theres no way he'll be able to afford IFQ, permits, a boat, etc without going into mountain's of debt.



    Quote Originally Posted by L. G. View Post
    I don't get "giddy" but two things to consider:

    1. Is the fine enuff for others to be deterred from similar violations?

    2. Poachers all stealing everyones resource. This is an area where, when open, the bag limit is two legal males per household per year. So he poached 4 household yearly limits.

    To put that in perspective for you, that'd be like someone taking 20 (24?) deer illegally down your way. You don't think that's a big deal?

  17. #17
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    I think you're correct, a fine wouldn't deter someone running an illegal crab ring. But at this level, it wouldn't deter anyone (from a monetary standpoint). Let's say that the base fine is $110, which is what they fine for snagging salmon. If you kept 1 illegal crab and the fine was $110 but the market value was $200, then what is the deterrent effect? Does anyone who thinks this fine was too steep have any suggestions?

    As far as his age is concerned, at what point do we hold someone accountable? I have known lots of dumb 20 / 22 / 24 /26+ year old guys. At times, I know I've made some poor decisions and could've been lumped in category as well. But it's not like I didn't know right from wrong, and I'm sure that's generally the case. Not saying this is a bad kid. Just that he thought he could get away with something and got caught. It's not like he turned himself in and I'm sure he knew that the season was closed -- it has been essentially closed for 5 yrs or so. Oh well. And in his particular case it looks like fine doesn't really match up to the value of what he was poaching....As far as working minimum wage, (1) even if he didn't have a job, it would just come out of his PFD and (2) maybe he shouldn't be poaching (also 8 crab is a LOT of crab to eat)

    As far as why comm fishing permits are so expensive....

    Quote Originally Posted by 270ti View Post
    I don't like the government using people as "examples", to deter crime. The punishment should fit the crime, and "deterents" are always subjective. If somone was running an illegal crab ring, a $15000 fine wouldn't deter him. But, an over zealous teenager shouldn't have to forfit over 80hrs of wage for making a mistake in judgment, for freaking crabs. My memory hasn't totally lapsed from when I was a young/dumb 17 year old.

    But again, this begs a much different question. Why can't a 17 year old, go out, catch 8 king crabs, and sell them for $1600? What has happened to Alaska, and Alaska fisheries where there is no opportunity for a hard working kid to catch halibut, salmon, crab, and shrimp and be able to pay his way through college or get a start in life? Anybody look at what a SE King Crab permit goes for? Lets see.. This youngster can buy a Crab Permit for 205k. yeah, that's realistic. Or, can buy 1000# of IFQ (halibut) so he can sell. That'll cost him 43k.
    Sure you can say that he can crew on a boat.. but with the percentage he'll get, theres no way he'll be able to afford IFQ, permits, a boat, etc without going into mountain's of debt.

  18. #18
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    Unfortunately, those days are long gone. There's a lot more people going after less available ocean creatures than back in the good old days. The current system isn't perfect. The really expensive permits create a class system of have-and-have-nots. But what's the alternative? Turn everyone loose to catch and sell what they want?

    But again, this begs a much different question. Why can't a 17 year old, go out, catch 8 king crabs, and sell them for $1600? What has happened to Alaska, and Alaska fisheries where there is no opportunity for a hard working kid to catch halibut, salmon, crab, and shrimp and be able to pay his way through college or get a start in life? Anybody look at what a SE King Crab permit goes for? Lets see.. This youngster can buy a Crab Permit for 205k. yeah, that's realistic. Or, can buy 1000# of IFQ (halibut) so he can sell. That'll cost him 43k.
    Sure you can say that he can crew on a boat.. but with the percentage he'll get, theres no way he'll be able to afford IFQ, permits, a boat, etc without going into mountain's of debt.

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