Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 22

Thread: What to do?

  1. #1
    Moderator Adison's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Anchorage, AK
    Posts
    236

    Default What to do?

    As most of you know, I have been moderating this forum for quite awhile, and I am very pleased with the quality of the advice and experience that has been shared by all of the members who visit here. Some of you are gifted with knowledge and some with experience and some with a combination of both. Needless to say, All of you are valuable to this forum and to each of us in one way or another.

    That brings me to my question. I have been flying as a student since July 1, 1991. Money and life have conspired from time to time to prevent me from finishing my pilots license. During all of this time I have accumulated around 85-90 hours in my logbook and several more that are unlogged. I have met all of the requirements time wise to satisfy the FAR's for my license. Last year my job took me out of Alaska and down to Florida ( I am an A&P mechanic by trade). My current employer is a small flight school, and as part of my compensation, I get a discount on flight instruction. Here is my dilemma.

    My instructor is a young German woman and when we fly, she is very jumpy, always wanting to grab the controls, and she isn't teaching me anything. All of my maneuvers are acceptable to her, but when I took my check ride with the chief pilot, he said they need more work. I did my ground check with the chief pilot and learned more with him in two hours than I did from her in the last month.

    I took my end of course test with the chief pilot yesterday and felt like I did well only to find out that I failed. I feel like I am wasting my time with the current instructor and I told the chief pilot that as well. He dosen't want to give me another instructor at this late stage of instruction. What should I do? Should I tough it out with her and give it a few more hours or should I just go somewhere else where they will listen to me and actually teach me something even though it costs more? Also, will I be able to find another school that will take me at this point?

    BTW, my reason for failing the end of course was this. I was diverted to another airport and when I entered the pattern I forgot to check the published pattern direction for that airport and ended up flying the pattern backwards. Otherwise, my ground work was good and so were my flying skills. Just a dumb mistake by a student that I should have caught.

    I look forward to your advise.
    Adison
    I carry a gun because a cop is too heavy!
    Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice, remember life is expensive and ammo is cheep!

  2. #2
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Hawaii
    Posts
    330

    Default

    Hi Addison,


    There are flight schools everywhere, many of which would be happy to hire you as a mechanic and probably offer you a discount for flight instruction. I don't know if you are locked into your present location, but if not you might be well off to be looking around for another flight school and job. It sounds like you are really close to passing your check ride. I think your chief pilot is dead wrong in insisting that you stay with the young flight instructor that doesn't cut the mustard as an instructor. Have you considered talking with any of her other students to see if they too are having the same problem? And if so would they be willing to say something to the chief pilot about that? She shouldn't be instructing if she is ineffective.
    You might try again stating your problem to the chief pilot, but be a whole lot more emphatic and detailed about the problem. You might also suggest diplomatically that you will have to be looking for another flight school and job if he insists that you stay with your current instructor. It's your money and there should be a complete willingness to accomodate your legitimate concern.


    If you do end up switching to a different school, I would advise finding an older instructor who has been instructing for a few years. It sounds to me as if this young German woman like many other young flight instructors, is doing it to build time for an eventual regular flying job and is more concerned about building time than she is about imparting the necessary knowledge efficiently and with a minimum of grabbing of the controls. A good flight instructor will demonstrate a manuever and then have the student practice it. And unless the student is about to do something catastrophic, verbal instruction with an occasional demonstration is all that is usually necessary to fine tune a student's skill in any given manuever.


    Final advice: Be as assertive about this problem as you can and drive home the point to your chief pilot, that the instruction you're receiving is not acceptable.

  3. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Fairbanks
    Posts
    520

    Default

    Most of the flight training manuels I've read allude to the fact that teaching methods and personalities between student and instructor can clash, even with good instructors. I would think that if that flight school was run in any kind of professional manner that your request for a different instructor, at any point in your flight instruction, should not be questioned. Finding the right instructor will likely save you enough hours of instruction to more than make up for the discount sacrificed by going to a different school....Louis
    Louis Knapp

  4. #4
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    1,461

    Default

    UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCE should you contine with the German instructor. If the Chief Pilot there doesn't agree that her clearly apparent nervousness in an airplane is serious, then he is a ****ed poor Chief Pilot. It would appear to me that the lady is headed for disaster, and one can only hope she doesn't take some other erstwhile student with her.

    Clearly, you are not learning those basic things that all student pilots should learn from their instructors, as witness the fact that you have so far come in second best in a truly basic undertaking. That isn't your fault, it is the fault of your instructor. Given that, you are wasting both your time and your money, however large a discount you may be receiving at the moment.

    By all means, get another instructor - - - - - or find another school. Quickly. You will be MILES ahead if you will do that. This advice is free, and that's just about what it's worth. Still, it comes from a 20,000 hour pilot. And that's my $0.02 worth.

  5. #5
    Member Float Pilot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Kachemak Bay Alaska
    Posts
    4,218

    Default

    I agree with the above...
    Since you have gone to the top and explained your situation, it reflects poorly on the school if they do not take customer opinions seriously.

    Many moons ago I had a similar situation when I was assigned a super young and inexperienced CFI for my CFI rating. The chief pilot blew me off when I asked for a change to a grown-up CFI... So I just told them that I was firing the juvenile CFI and I was more than willing to explain the situation to their competitors down the road. It worked out great because I ended up with a lady cfi who had flown with Howard Hughes.

    PS. Is the young German gal a looker ?? Us creepy old guys starring at them makes them nervous and it also makes our brains go to mush...Not a good combo....
    Floatplane,Tailwheel and Firearms Instructor- Dragonfly Aero
    Experimental Hand-Loader, NRA Life Member
    http://site.dragonflyaero.com

  6. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Hawaii
    Posts
    330

    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by Float Pilot View Post
    I agree with the above...
    Since you have gone to the top and explained your situation, it reflects poorly on the school if they do not take customer opinions seriously.

    Many moons ago I had a similar situation when I was assigned a super young and inexperienced CFI for my CFI rating. The chief pilot blew me off when I asked for a change to a grown-up CFI... So I just told them that I was firing the juvenile CFI and I was more than willing to explain the situation to their competitors down the road. It worked out great because I ended up with a lady cfi who had flown with Howard Hughes.

    PS. Is the young German gal a looker ?? Us creepy old guys starring at them makes them nervous and it also makes our brains go to mush...Not a good combo....

    I had a similar thought but didn't voice it. Maybe the chief pilot is getting it on with the German flight instructor...

  7. #7
    Member Akheloce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Homer
    Posts
    1,135

    Default

    I don't envy your situation, since I've been there before. I worked as a ramper during college at an FBO. We only had one CFI at the FBO, and we didn't work well together. While I don't advise this, I once (on the ramp), killed the master, pulled the mixture, and walked away from the airplane.

    The next day, I heard from my boss (who was the boss of both of us). I told him that I didn't appreciate his teaching style (he was a yeller), and I chose not to fly with him anymore. I WAS PAYING THE CFI... HE WAS MY EMPLOYEE for the billed time.

    It was almost 10 years later before I logged time with a CFI again, but I don't regret the decision I made.

    Alas, my current CFI is a very successful float plane/ bear viewing guide, and she's difficult to schedule given my schedule, but thats my fault, not hers, and she's awesome...really challenges me.
    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

  8. #8
    Member Float Pilot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Kachemak Bay Alaska
    Posts
    4,218

    Default

    RIGHT FROM THE CFI DUTIES CHECK-LIST

    Seek feedback :
    Ask open-ended questions that begin with what , why , and how to probe for honest feedback about your studentsí learning experience. When students actively participate in learning, they find their own opportunities for improvement and support their goal of becoming a pilot. As a facilitator, your role is to guide students through their own learning process rather than just supplying them with facts.

    * Unless you are flying with AKheloce, who needs to be yelled-at on a continual basis...
    Floatplane,Tailwheel and Firearms Instructor- Dragonfly Aero
    Experimental Hand-Loader, NRA Life Member
    http://site.dragonflyaero.com

  9. #9
    Member Akheloce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Homer
    Posts
    1,135

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Float Pilot View Post
    RIGHT FROM THE CFI DUTIES CHECK-LIST

    Seek feedback :
    Ask open-ended questions that begin with what , why , and how to probe for honest feedback about your studentsí learning experience. When students actively participate in learning, they find their own opportunities for improvement and support their goal of becoming a pilot. As a facilitator, your role is to guide students through their own learning process rather than just supplying them with facts.

    * Unless you are flying with AKheloce, who needs to be yelled-at on a continual basis...
    Thanks buddy . And you know "buddy" is only half the word
    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

  10. #10
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Hawaii
    Posts
    330

    Default

    Addison,

    Update us when something changes.

    I'm sure we would all be interested in your solution when you have one and wish you the best in solving the problem the best possible way.

  11. #11
    Member IndyCzar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Just 55 miles north of ANC ... on the lake
    Posts
    351

    Default

    Hello Adison,
    the advice that has been put out there is spot on...Sometimes students and instructors just don't connect...New instructors can be jumpy because they don't know how far to let a student go, (self survival)...I had that same experience when I got my float plane rating...Even with over 8000 hrs at the time the instructor never had his hands off the controls...I just cannot imagine that the Chief Pilot would not just finish you up himself being within a few hours of finishing...

    Anyone can make a simple mistake on a pattern entry or a holding pattern or whatever and perhaps the "failure" on your work up was just a way to emphasis a little more attention to detail...Sometimes a brain F@rt is just that...We all still make them...Its how you mitigate a mistake by not compounding or making another...

    Like others...mine 2 cents is what its worth...I say hang in there..don't be discouraged...have a heart to heart with instructor and Chief maybe in the same room...Your opinions and feeling should be respected and if not...A good A/P should have no problem moving on..best of luck...

  12. #12
    Moderator Adison's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Anchorage, AK
    Posts
    236

    Default

    She is deffinately NOT a looker! Unless you like them with short cropped hair and broad shoulders and a big.....ahhhh, bumper on the back side.

    I have an appointment to sit down with her and him tomorrow afternoon. I am planning to discuss my dissatisfaction with my training so far. I also will discuss where I want to go from here and what I expect in the future.

    I have come so far and I don't want to give up when I am this close.
    I carry a gun because a cop is too heavy!
    Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice, remember life is expensive and ammo is cheep!

  13. #13
    Member Float Pilot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Kachemak Bay Alaska
    Posts
    4,218

    Default

    She is deffinately NOT a looker! Unless you like them with short cropped hair and broad shoulders and a big.....ahhhh, bumper on the back side
    Well heck,,, that kinda ruins the whole thread........
    Floatplane,Tailwheel and Firearms Instructor- Dragonfly Aero
    Experimental Hand-Loader, NRA Life Member
    http://site.dragonflyaero.com

  14. #14
    Moderator Adison's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Anchorage, AK
    Posts
    236

    Default

    Well the appointment didn't go as planned. I was there, the female instructor was there, but the cheif pilot was doing a check ride and was delayed. We sat around for forty-five minutes for him to arrive but he never did. Then I looked arround and the female instructor was gone. After an hour, I left. I never got a phone call from either of them to reschedule or to ask what I wanted to talk about. That was yesterday. I never got a phone call today either. I think it is time to find another flight school and another job.
    I carry a gun because a cop is too heavy!
    Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice, remember life is expensive and ammo is cheep!

  15. #15
    Member IndyCzar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Just 55 miles north of ANC ... on the lake
    Posts
    351

    Default

    gotta say it...that sux...best of luck on completing your PPL and on wherever your next endeavor takes you...whenever one door closes...2 more will open...keep the faith and hang in there...

  16. #16

    Default

    The first advice I would give is NEVER put words on the internet you don't want on CNN!!!!! How your instructor looks is not something you should post!! Second advice is there are a lot of ways to the top of any mountain. You can move to another job but that is a big change and could slow you down. Do try for another instructor, remember young low time pilots do it to gain hours. Old pilots do it for fun. BUT you may just need to get a big glass of SUCK IT UP an do 10 hours in two weeks and retest. If you are a good wrench the company will do what it takes to keep you.
    DENNY

  17. #17

    Default

    Can't go with that last advice. To me, the chief pilot blowing you off on an appointment says everything that you need to know. Find a new instructor and finish your license. Instructors are everywhere, and they are hungry for hours (and usually just hungry, it don't pay much). She may be a great instructor but personalities have to click even a little to work. At this point it is too big of a distraction. Keep your job if you like the place but go find somebody you can learn from.
    The winner isn't the person with the most gold when they die, but rather, the person with the most stories.

  18. #18
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Hawaii
    Posts
    330

    Default

    I wouldn't worry the least about the description of your instructor. We don't know her name, her location, her age, your flight school, or your name. I think your post is sufficiently anonymous that any worries about its getting out via CNN or any other venue is nil.

  19. #19
    Member Float Pilot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Kachemak Bay Alaska
    Posts
    4,218

    Default

    Sounds like a messed up business.....
    Floatplane,Tailwheel and Firearms Instructor- Dragonfly Aero
    Experimental Hand-Loader, NRA Life Member
    http://site.dragonflyaero.com

  20. #20
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    chugiak
    Posts
    70

    Default

    The first advice I would give is NEVER put words on the internet you don't want on CNN!!!!!

    + 1.... million!

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •