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Thread: What did I find?

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    Member JR2's Avatar
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    Default What did I find?

    Cleaning out my Grandmother's storage locker I found this rifle. Appears to be Japanese. What can you tell me? Kind of beat up but kind of cool. Only markings are in the photo.



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    Member Longkj's Avatar
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    http://www.cruffler.com/trivia-September00.html

    I believe those markings are serial numbers and this website will has a chart that will translate the serial number. Also there is a goodl chance that rifle is a Arisaka 38. Very nice piece of history you have there. I wish I had one.

    LongKJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by Longkj View Post
    Yes I believe it is...an Ariska, pretty cool! I think the ones with the chrysanthemum (flower marking) filed on or filed off, were the ones that were captured during the war.
    http://www.gunauction.com/search/dis...temnum=8765751
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    Quote Originally Posted by Longkj View Post
    Very nice piece of history you have there. I wish I had one.

    LongKJ
    Me too! I really like those guns with some history behind them.

    edit - Oops, looks like we were both looking up info at the same time...
    "Grin and Bear It"

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    Quote Originally Posted by JR2 View Post
    Cleaning out my Grandmother's storage locker I found this rifle. Appears to be Japanese. What can you tell me? Kind of beat up but kind of cool. Only markings are in the photo.



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    Wow....how cool is that?...... you lucky dog...!!!
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    Default surrendered

    The rifles with the mums defaced were surrendered rifles. Apparently both the japs and US forces defaced the mums. These were the rifles given out to the returning troops and sailors in large numbers as "trophies".

    Rifles with intact mums were generally captured or battlefield picks that were brought back by returning soldiers.

    In my experience there are 5 to 10 defaced rifles to everyone with the mum intact.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tearbear View Post
    Yes I believe it is...an Ariska, pretty cool! I think the ones with the chrysanthemum (flower marking) filed on or filed off, were the ones that were captured during the war.
    http://www.gunauction.com/search/dis...temnum=8765751
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

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    Member JR2's Avatar
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    Now I have to go back to the unit and look at it again, need to find the sn and other markings. Going to check the bore as well. I remember a bayonet that grandma used to have in her house.

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    Sponsor ADfields's Avatar
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    That is an intact type 38 Jap Arisaka in 6.5mm Jap/Arisaka) Only thing I see missing is the dust cover that most are missing, you can find a replacement in Shotgun News, someone is re-popping them now I saw. That is a very collectable rifle and worth a lot more than the type 99 7.7 Jap.

    Yours is in very good shape for a 6.5, these are the beet of the beet usually because they saw so much hard service for so long. There are worth more because there were ten times as many 99s brought home and 99s were also imported post-war just like the Mauser. These with an intact Mum like that are almost all battlefield pick-up. Iím betting your Grandpa was a Marine and like my Dad mailed this one home.
     
    I have one like yours (not as clean) and several 99s that my Dad mailed home. I may well be the only guy in Alaska with ammo for 6.5 Jap, itís very hard to find the stuff. Norma made ammo and brass into the 1980s before dropping it, and it got extremely hard to find then Norma started listing new brass last summer but IĎve not seen any for sale. Dies are stock items from Lee, RCBS and maybe others.


    Boxer primer brass is the big hangup to shooting a 6í5 Jap. Brass can be formed for the 6.5 Jap but it is not as easy as 7.7 Jap. The easy way is with 35 Remington and a short 30 caliber die like a 308 as an intermediate step. This comes up as a short but usable 6.5 Jap brass. The other way is from 243 or 308 brass, this will make a true 6.5 Jap size case but the base diameter must be swaged down so you need special tooling.
     
    Great find, pretty hard to come by and itís much more valuable than it looks like.
    Andy
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    Member Rod in Wasilla's Avatar
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    Sorry Andy, but that's a type 99 Arisaka. The type 38's have two holes in the top of the receiver, and the type 99's only have one.

    JR2... so you can identify/catalog which variant you have, here's a type 99 data sheet.

    And, for anybody with a type 38, here's a type 38 data sheet.

    Here's a Type 99


    And here's a Type 38


    And by the way, JR2... that rifle definitely isn't "kind of beat up". It appears to be in really good condition, and even has the "mum" on the top of the receiver intact. Good find.
    Quote Originally Posted by northwestalska
    ... you canít tell stories about the adventures you wished you had done!

  11. #11

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    Concur rifle is T99 Short Rifle 7.7X58 Arisaka. Pretty neat, and you have a family heirloom!! Originally, the T99 had a monopod affixed to the middle band, a cleaning rod in the front that fit in the stock under the barrel, and fold out wings on the rear sight to lead aricraft. Late war productions and rebuild often lack those items. Troops often removed both the dust cover and the monopod in the field.

    Graf and HDS catalogs PRI Brass 7.7 (and 6.5X50) and PRI loads ammo. Hornady has both loaded as well. Most of the 99's have chrome bores and bolt faces, so bores aften look great while outside does not. I have quite a bit of 6.5X50 loaded by PRC in the '50's for use in the rifles they kept in use in China after the war.

    Of note: 2nd LT Hiroo Onoda Imperial Japanese Army surrended in 1974. He carried a T99 in the RPI for 30 years. His last fire fight with Constabulary was in 1972, he lost his Corporal and they killed several of the policeman. The rifle held up well, but the stock was rotting off from the jungle environment. He used the MG ammo stripped from the stripper clips for the rifle. He could fire it single shot, but it would not feed from the magazine, due to the rimmed case. His book "No Surrender" is an interesting read.

    Enjoy!

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    Sponsor ADfields's Avatar
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    Possible that itís a 99 but hard to tell in the pix, my 38 (see below next to one of my 99s) has a single vent hole so that is no indicator. The band looks more 99 but the sight looks more 38 and overall length looks like the long 38. Just looks more 38 to me but an easy test is if a 30 caliber bullet fits snug in the muzle its 99 and if not itís a 38 in 6.5.
    IMG_0078a.jpgIMG_0079a.jpg
    Andy
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    Andy, are you sure you have a single-vent Type 38? I've never heard of such a variant. You may have a very rare rifle. Can you post a picture of the top of the receiver?

    Taken from the table on this website, the Japanese characters on JR2's rifle very clearly indicate "99 Type".

    Type 38's will have these symbols on the top of the receiver: .

    Character Meaning

    Type
    1
    2
    3
    4
    5
    6
    7
    8
    9
    10
    Quote Originally Posted by northwestalska
    ... you canít tell stories about the adventures you wished you had done!

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    Default jap rifle ammo

    When I started noticing them in the 60s the going price for ordinary jap rifles was $10 with the paratrooper (take down) and snipers bringing up to $100. 6.5 carbines could bring up to $25 or so if they were in nice shape.

    The only ammo avaliable was by Norma (as in very expensive), for some reason very little surplus jap ammo ever made it back after the war. I did pick up a little of the MG ammo 15-20 years ago or so, it was semi-rimmed and laoded in Hotchkiss clips. With a little work with a file it would work in the rifles, the rim was too large otherwise to work in the guns I tried it in.

    I did fire some 7.65 x 57 mauser ammo in the 7.7s but the cases were way short on headspace and too small in the base. Not recommended! I also formed cases for the 7.7 out of '06 brass but I never loaded them very hot and only neck sized after the first firing.

    With the way the barrels are recessed for the bolt head the japs are very strong and handle excaping gas well. I once hammered a 8x57 round in one of the crude late war 7.7s one time and set it in a tire and fired it with a string. Didn't hurt the gun as best I can tell but the cases was really blown out. I'll post a picture if I can find the case.


    Quote Originally Posted by allen-ak View Post
    Concur rifle is T99 Short Rifle 7.7X58 Arisaka. Pretty neat, and you have a family heirloom!! Originally, the T99 had a monopod affixed to the middle band, a cleaning rod in the front that fit in the stock under the barrel, and fold out wings on the rear sight to lead aricraft. Late war productions and rebuild often lack those items. Troops often removed both the dust cover and the monopod in the field.

    Graf and HDS catalogs PRI Brass 7.7 (and 6.5X50) and PRI loads ammo. Hornady has both loaded as well. Most of the 99's have chrome bores and bolt faces, so bores aften look great while outside does not. I have quite a bit of 6.5X50 loaded by PRC in the '50's for use in the rifles they kept in use in China after the war.

    Of note: 2nd LT Hiroo Onoda Imperial Japanese Army surrended in 1974. He carried a T99 in the RPI for 30 years. His last fire fight with Constabulary was in 1972, he lost his Corporal and they killed several of the policeman. The rifle held up well, but the stock was rotting off from the jungle environment. He used the MG ammo stripped from the stripper clips for the rifle. He could fire it single shot, but it would not feed from the magazine, due to the rimmed case. His book "No Surrender" is an interesting read.

    Enjoy!
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

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    Rod Iíll dig it out and post a pic tonight, but there is nothing there but a vent. I donít know how it got that way, I know Dad wouldnít have slicked it off and I think itís just the way he found it on one of the many Pacific islands he fought on but canĎt ask him anymore. Itís a very well made rifle in 6.5 Jap without a chrome bore and LONG, not like any of the many 7.7s Iíve had. Mine is the only 6.5 Dad sent back, he may have thought it was a 7.7 because it was 7.7s he wanted and mailed at least 8 of them back. Dad outfitted half his family with these and any Fields hunting camp would have at least one 7.7 in it until the mid 80s. Even though we donĎt hunt them anymore we all still have them, a lot of them.
     
     
    Iíve had at least 15 99s over the years, I like these rifles, they were well made and some were European contract made. If not for the horrible safety knob thing I think they would have been as popular as German rifles in the sporting market. Tough, accurate rifle with a weird safety and a poorly balanced stock for us Americans.
    Andy
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    Member Rod in Wasilla's Avatar
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    That's definitely intriguing... can't wait to see pics.
    Quote Originally Posted by northwestalska
    ... you canít tell stories about the adventures you wished you had done!

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    Member Rod in Wasilla's Avatar
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    Andy, I did a little digging and have a sneaking suspicion that what you have is an Arisaka training rifle. I found a few posts (here's one) where people are asking about what otherwise looks like a typical type 38, but with only one vent hole, and no mum or "type" markings on the receiver.

    I really want to see pictures now...
    Quote Originally Posted by northwestalska
    ... you canít tell stories about the adventures you wished you had done!

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    Quote Originally Posted by tvfinak View Post
    When I started noticing them in the 60s the going price for ordinary jap rifles was $10 with the paratrooper (take down) and snipers bringing up to $100. 6.5 carbines could bring up to $25 or so if they were in nice shape.

    The only ammo avaliable was by Norma (as in very expensive), for some reason very little surplus jap ammo ever made it back after the war. I did pick up a little of the MG ammo 15-20 years ago or so, it was semi-rimmed and laoded in Hotchkiss clips. With a little work with a file it would work in the rifles, the rim was too large otherwise to work in the guns I tried it in.

    I did fire some 7.65 x 57 mauser ammo in the 7.7s but the cases were way short on headspace and too small in the base. Not recommended! I also formed cases for the 7.7 out of '06 brass but I never loaded them very hot and only neck sized after the first firing.

    With the way the barrels are recessed for the bolt head the japs are very strong and handle excaping gas well. I once hammered a 8x57 round in one of the crude late war 7.7s one time and set it in a tire and fired it with a string. Didn't hurt the gun as best I can tell but the cases was really blown out. I'll post a picture if I can find the case.
    http://lagniappeslair.blogspot.com/2...ifle-ammo.html
    I looked this up a while back when I was considering an Arisaka. Sounds pretty complicated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JR2 View Post
    Now I have to go back to the unit and look at it again, need to find the sn and other markings. Going to check the bore as well. I remember a bayonet that grandma used to have in her house.

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    Grandpa worked in the ship yards in Washington during the war building war ships. I would guess he got the rifle from a neighbor or friend. He hunted deer alot to feed his family and and did lots of trading to obtain guns and equipment. His other deer gun that I have in my safe is a 1908 Springfield in 30-40 kraig.

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