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Thread: Draw & Let-Off questions

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    Member Roger45's Avatar
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    Default Draw & Let-Off questions

    I never thought that a Fly machine at the gym could screw up my shoulders so bad...I am on my second Ortho doc and I now have some hope of being able to shoot a bow again...in the mean time I am looking at changing out my bow. Over the last 4-5 years I have loved my Mathews Switchback, but with 65% let off, I can no longer "hold" at the draw position more than 3-5 seconds. I went to Screaming Eagle and drew back on a HeliM and a Creed and the let-off was soooo much better on both that I could easily hold for 10 seconds. What I did not ask at the time was, is there any bow that also has a very smooth draw? I am not Brand motivated, other than a few bows have always hurt my brace hand...for example, I have never been able to shoot a Hoyt that did not hurt, same with a Martin...not sure what it is about them, they just rock back and hurt my thumb. Anyway, any suggestions on specific bows to try would be appreciated.
    "...and then Jack chopped down the beanstock, adding murder and ecological vandalism to the theft, enticement and vandalism charges already mentioned, but he got away with it and lived happily ever after without so much as a guilty twinge about what he had done. Which proves that you can be excused just about anything if you're a hero, because no one asks the inconvenient questions." Terry Pratchett's The Hogfather

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    Roger it's all about the cam... Round wheels are the smoothest and high let offs are generally the roughest. And there are a host of hybrids out there. I will ask around for you as I have not shot a lot of the newer ones. But I would suggest throwing a post on archery talk as that is a bow dedicated site.

    Not sure what you mean by they hurt your thumb...

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    Member shimano 33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger45 View Post
    I never thought that a Fly machine at the gym could screw up my shoulders so bad...I am on my second Ortho doc and I now have some hope of being able to shoot a bow again...in the mean time I am looking at changing out my bow. Over the last 4-5 years I have loved my Mathews Switchback, but with 65% let off, I can no longer "hold" at the draw position more than 3-5 seconds. I went to Screaming Eagle and drew back on a HeliM and a Creed and the let-off was soooo much better on both that I could easily hold for 10 seconds. What I did not ask at the time was, is there any bow that also has a very smooth draw? I am not Brand motivated, other than a few bows have always hurt my brace hand...for example, I have never been able to shoot a Hoyt that did not hurt, same with a Martin...not sure what it is about them, they just rock back and hurt my thumb. Anyway, any suggestions on specific bows to try would be appreciated.
    You HAVE to try an Elite Answer... I promise it has to be one of the smoothest/ if not smoothest bow out there.

    and this is coming from a past Mathews/Hoyt guy.

    Just check out this thread http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showth...t=Elite+answer

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    Several of the elite brand bows are very smooth and have great let off with a solid back wall. There are others that are smooth as well but I am not as familiar with them. I do have an older bowtech commander I like.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bear View Post
    Not sure what you mean by they hurt your thumb...
    when I release an arrow, the way the bow rocks back, it smacks the MP joint (the joint of the thumb that is at the hand) of my brace hand. It hurts and is no fun. Something about the angles is wrong for y hand.
    "...and then Jack chopped down the beanstock, adding murder and ecological vandalism to the theft, enticement and vandalism charges already mentioned, but he got away with it and lived happily ever after without so much as a guilty twinge about what he had done. Which proves that you can be excused just about anything if you're a hero, because no one asks the inconvenient questions." Terry Pratchett's The Hogfather

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger45 View Post
    when I release an arrow, the way the bow rocks back, it smacks the MP joint (the joint of the thumb that is at the hand) of my brace hand. It hurts and is no fun. Something about the angles is wrong for y hand.
    ok I gotcha.. could be how your wrist is positioned ... Also mkae sure you hand that you are holding the bow with is completely relaxed at full draw.. Some one should be able to wiggle your fingers while you are at full draw..

    Also be extremely careful in your condition of creeping....ie relaxing your draw back arm and the draw weight pulls you off the wall.. most of the newer bows have a very small unforgiving valley and if you let up the slightest bit it will jerk you... try using your back more in the shot too if possible in your condition... keep the pounds down....


    http://www.bowsite.com/bowsite/featu...grip/index.htm

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    Moderator Daveinthebush's Avatar
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    If you can only hold the bow back for ten seconds, you might want to reduce your poundage. Ten seconds is not that long to hold.

    Vietnam - June 70 - Feb. 72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bear View Post
    ok I gotcha.. could be how your wrist is positioned ... Also mkae sure you hand that you are holding the bow with is completely relaxed at full draw.. Some one should be able to wiggle your fingers while you are at full draw..
    One of the things I love about my Switchback, (since installing the thin rubber grip), is that I can cradle the riser in a balanced way and be completely relaxed. It never rolls back onto my MP joint...I think it is solely an anatomical condition my hand has and the ergonomics for Hoyt just don't fit...a real bummer. I have not tried any of the newer generation from them, maybe I will try.

    As t my draw/hold time...I know that 10 seconds would be the minimal amount of time I need to be able to hold Before I consider hunting. Once I can do 10, then I can work on longer and longer...

    Thanks for all the recommendations so far. I will be on the look out for an Elite to draw :-)
    "...and then Jack chopped down the beanstock, adding murder and ecological vandalism to the theft, enticement and vandalism charges already mentioned, but he got away with it and lived happily ever after without so much as a guilty twinge about what he had done. Which proves that you can be excused just about anything if you're a hero, because no one asks the inconvenient questions." Terry Pratchett's The Hogfather

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    Ah, the blessings of instinctive shooting !!! I'm sure that most of us get our shots off in less than one second. Certainly less than two. Are we successful in the field? Yep. And while our old longbows are not smooth, and certainly do stack up, they are supremely accurate in the field. That includes both running and flying critters.

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    I use an old Oneida bow. I love that thing and the draw is very smooth. It's performance is not the equal of today's bows but it still earns critters for me nearly every year. Not sure if they still make them.

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    You can also replace the cam on your switchback with an 85% let off cam. Probably run you about $100.

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    Roger have you ever thought of trying a custom grip on those mentioned that mess up your hand? you could try shimming it and seeing what fit, and having one custom made for ya if need be.

    10secs is plenty of time (and it wouldnt keep me out of the woods if I could only hold 5), honestly its a LONG time to hold for guys like me LOL! I can do it, with a paritally torn rotator cuff to boot, but I hate doing it. It was a huge difference on when to draw going from wheels to sticks. The one joy of shooting a stick is stopping at half draw or less. Unfortunatly sticks will tear up your shoulders. I smacked mine up on a mt bike crash a few years back and can feel it after a long shoot, not painful but I know its there, never did have surgery.

    Change your mindset slightly, pick your shots accordingly and enjoy the woods again!

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    After seeing my ortho doc I am even more confused than normal ;-) My left shoulder is more irritating than debilitating...but the MRI shows that surgery could help. On the other hand, my right shoulder is "better" according to the MRI and surgery would do nothing to help. Huh??? Even though they have similar pain and in the same spot, mechanically they have different causes. Go figure. On top of that, I am on a No Exercise/PT for two more months. Again, huh??? I can't stand not working on my shoulders in the gym, but I have to admit that for the first time in 9 months my right shoulder does not hurt like it did, I am able to sleep all night without pain, and my range of motion is improving. I think I will try changing out my Cam on my Switchback to the 80% let-off as a cheaper alternative...then if I can handle this, then I will start looking at new bows. I appreciate all the advice...thanks to all who have replied.
    "...and then Jack chopped down the beanstock, adding murder and ecological vandalism to the theft, enticement and vandalism charges already mentioned, but he got away with it and lived happily ever after without so much as a guilty twinge about what he had done. Which proves that you can be excused just about anything if you're a hero, because no one asks the inconvenient questions." Terry Pratchett's The Hogfather

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    I would agree with the other poster who suggested lowering your draw weight. With less draw weight you will also have less to hold back even if you dont change out your cams. I think there is more strain on your shoulders during draw than when holding for a shot.... Just my opinion.

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    I'm a switchback shooter also, but while down at Screaming Eagle last weekend (buying a new bow for my daughter), I got to play with a Monster Chill. That bow has a very smooth draw cycle, and high let off. I had to leave before I convinced myself it was a need not a want....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rock7 View Post
    I would agree with the other poster who suggested lowering your draw weight. With less draw weight you will also have less to hold back even if you dont change out your cams. I think there is more strain on your shoulders during draw than when holding for a shot.... Just my opinion.
    Actually, the draw is not as painful for me, it is the hold that can be screaming! Still, having an easier draw is desirable if I don't get any better...
    "...and then Jack chopped down the beanstock, adding murder and ecological vandalism to the theft, enticement and vandalism charges already mentioned, but he got away with it and lived happily ever after without so much as a guilty twinge about what he had done. Which proves that you can be excused just about anything if you're a hero, because no one asks the inconvenient questions." Terry Pratchett's The Hogfather

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger45 View Post
    Actually, the draw is not as painful for me, it is the hold that can be screaming! Still, having an easier draw is desirable if I don't get any better...

    What did they say was actually wrong with your shoulders? I'm an MRI technologist and some of that seems like a funny diagnosis and strange treatment plan...based on what you've written anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mossyhorn View Post
    What did they say was actually wrong with your shoulders? I'm an MRI technologist and some of that seems like a funny diagnosis and strange treatment plan...based on what you've written anyway.
    Right shoulder is frozen, but no tears...capsulitis. Let has a labrim (?sp) tear.
    "...and then Jack chopped down the beanstock, adding murder and ecological vandalism to the theft, enticement and vandalism charges already mentioned, but he got away with it and lived happily ever after without so much as a guilty twinge about what he had done. Which proves that you can be excused just about anything if you're a hero, because no one asks the inconvenient questions." Terry Pratchett's The Hogfather

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    Safari,

    Yes they do, in fact there is a factory staff shooter in the Valley, me. They are smooth, you can set the let off, draw and valley, but you are right, they aren't 300fps bows. You can get parts for every model out there through the factory.

    Hugh[

    QUOTE=safari;1260640]I use an old Oneida bow. I love that thing and the draw is very smooth. It's performance is not the equal of today's bows but it still earns critters for me nearly every year. Not sure if they still make them.[/QUOTE]

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    I hear ya on the odd shoulder read. Mine flat out said I had a partial cuff tear, asked me what I wanted to do. LIKE WTH!??!?! I have no clue lol.

    Well after 20ish minutes of chatting flexing etc and a pretty penny later he did nothing?!?!?! NOt sure that was my best move.

    SO far the ONLY thing I notice it on is holding, its also my left. I have no clue what a labral tear is compared to a cuff tear (I'm not even sure what part of my cuff is torn) but I only see it shooting. The docs medicine.....'keep on shooting'. he's also a bowhunter.

    Do you think you could be overworking your shoulders during the workouts? Becoming an overuse injury? MIne I bounced on the asphalt on the mt bike. wierd part was it didnt show up for 2 days...after that I could hardly lift my arm for 2 months. Gonna suck getting old! I'm pretty cautious when I'm working out my shoulder.

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