Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: Reload POI VS. Factory

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    AK
    Posts
    4,034

    Default Reload POI VS. Factory

    My .375 put 3 300 grain Federal Premium TSX onto paper with the holes touching a few years ago. POI was within an inch or so of the bullseye. Clearly the gun is capable of shooting very nice.

    This weekend I shot some handloaded 300 grain Partitions that were loaded in 1 grain increments from min. to a bit below max with IMR4064 in the Lyman manual. The POI was about 5 inches low and 3 inches left and the groups were around 3-5".

    Although un-happy with the groups I was more curious about the POI. Is it realistic that these handloads would change POI by 5" or has my scope lost zero? If the factory TSX were not $4 a round I would be much more tempted to go shoot a few but I thought I'd check with the experts first!

    Thanks in advance!

  2. #2
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Palmer Alaska
    Posts
    224

    Default

    Im in no way a ballistic expert.... I can however tell you that I have seen this type of thing before. As for as your scope being zero'd to the factory cartridges, the only way to know is to buy some and see how they do. With that being said even though the bullet weights are the same there are s many variables to consider. here are just a few

    1. What is the velocity difference of compared rounds?

    2. Is the design of both bullets simialar? Jacket Design, bullet shape, bullet length all play a role.

    3. What is the difference in temperature/ Elevation / Barometric Pressure ? From now and when you last sighted in your rifle? some of these are minor however they all play a role.

    4. Does your Scope still feel secure and tight? Have you made any changes to your rifle that would affect the barrel harmonics?

    Personally I would just load 5 rounds each of varying powder increments and see how they group....Incrementally change components powder primers, Distance off of lands Exct.... until I found a group I was happy with. Then just adjust your scope to it and call it a day.

    I hope i've given you some ideas and good luck.

  3. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Palmer Alaska
    Posts
    224

    Default

    Finding the right reload... Can be a challenge within itself as a general rule of thumb a short barrel likes a faster powder while a longer one likes a slower one....this is not always the case. it should serve as a starting point. I would try a different powder first. if you still have bad groups try a different bullet. a quick google should find what weight bullets your caliber and twist rate prefers..... there are so many more variables.... This quest for the magic combo is why reloading....at least for me has never saved me a dime.

  4. #4
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    AK
    Posts
    4,034

    Default

    I appreciate the quick replies, I guess I am going to have to bone up and shoot some factory loads again and see what they do!

    FWIW the scope feels tight and I have not made any changes to the rifle, I was mosty curious on peoples thoughts on a particular load being 2-3 inches left of another load, high or low would have made sense to me but left didn't make so much sense.

    Thanks again!

  5. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Palmer Alaska
    Posts
    224

    Lightbulb

    Quote Originally Posted by limon32 View Post
    I appreciate the quick replies, I guess I am going to have to bone up and shoot some factory loads again and see what they do!

    FWIW the scope feels tight and I have not made any changes to the rifle, I was mosty curious on peoples thoughts on a particular load being 2-3 inches left of another load, high or low would have made sense to me but left didn't make so much sense.

    Thanks again!

    I was thinking if you are going to buy these bullets. I would Suggest a chronograph.....and document the velocities And Standard Deviation spread's ... thus you can load up a good substitute that closely matches your factory rounds in the near future. if done properly your reloads will closely match your Factory stuff for A point of Impact. and it looks to me that thats what your fishing far.

  6. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    AK
    Posts
    4,034

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AlaskanTides View Post
    I was thinking if you are going to buy these bullets. I would Suggest a chronograph.....and document the velocities And Standard Deviation spread's ... thus you can load up a good substitute that closely matches your factory rounds in the near future. if done properly your reloads will closely match your Factory stuff for A point of Impact. and it looks to me that thats what your fishing far.
    I don't necessarily want to match the POI of my handoads to the factory round I was more curious if a 5" difference vertically and 2-3" horizontally was conceivably due to the difference in loads or if my scope was loosing zero.

    I should add a chronograph, perhaps that will be my tax return present to myself!

  7. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Kenai Peninsula
    Posts
    69

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by limon32 View Post
    I don't necessarily want to match the POI of my handoads to the factory round I was more curious if a 5" difference vertically and 2-3" horizontally was conceivably due to the difference in loads or if my scope was loosing zero.

    I should add a chronograph, perhaps that will be my tax return present to myself!
    I have had handloads change POI up to 6 inches, usually lower powder charges vs the factory loads.
    As Alaskan Tides says, I find the load that shotts the best groups in THAT! weapon, and then adjust the sights.
    I have a Remington 700 and a Savage 110, both in 30-06, that prefer quite different powders and loads.

  8. #8

    Default

    I think the best part of a new gun is finding that perfect load, try some different bullets and powders, she'll come back again. I have had some bullets five some funny stuff at least that's the story I'm sticking with it couldn't have been me right.

  9. #9
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    AK
    Posts
    4,034

    Default

    Calm Seas and Mooneyman, thanks for the additional input and encouragement! I've not reloaded extensively for this gun yet so this was a bit of a surprise.

    My AR in .223 had relatively the same POI for 40, 60 and 69 grain bullets I was playing with this fall, which ony added to my confusion!

    I'll keep at it and post back later this week maybe.

    Thanks again!

  10. #10

    Default

    As a matter of course, after developing a load and sighting in a gun, I shoot factory rounds through it for comparison. Yehaw! Get ready for the rodeo.

    POI with small cals are usually less affected by the switch, but that barely qualifies as a trend, much less as a rule. You never know until you shove the factory rounds into the gun. My custom 257 Roberts long throat puts factory loads about 4" low and left from the sight in with my hot handloads. One of my 375's doesn't seem to care what you shove down it over a wide range of handloads and factory loads. They all fall into essentially the same group. My other 375 is as finicky as my mother-in-law. My Savage bolt 223 is as forgiving as the first 375. My Mini 14 is more picky than my Roberts.

  11. #11
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    AK
    Posts
    4,034

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BrownBear View Post
    As a matter of course, after developing a load and sighting in a gun, I shoot factory rounds through it for comparison. Yehaw! Get ready for the rodeo.

    POI with small cals are usually less affected by the switch, but that barely qualifies as a trend, much less as a rule. You never know until you shove the factory rounds into the gun. My custom 257 Roberts long throat puts factory loads about 4" low and left from the sight in with my hot handloads. One of my 375's doesn't seem to care what you shove down it over a wide range of handloads and factory loads. They all fall into essentially the same group. My other 375 is as finicky as my mother-in-law. My Savage bolt 223 is as forgiving as the first 375. My Mini 14 is more picky than my Roberts.
    Thanks for the additional input, all your guys' responses are making me feel a lot better! I've got 3 other types of bullets and a couple other powders to play with so I'm going to try a few more combinations in the next week or so!

    Thanks again!

  12. #12
    Member alaskabliss's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Wasilla
    Posts
    1,419

    Default

    I have never had a Barnes bullet shoot bad once I found the right charge and seating depth. The key is to find that special load that your rifle loves.

    First thing to do is make sure your scope is zero'd. I would pay the money to get those factory rounds again. Once that is confirmed be sure you are starting your seating depths .50 off the lands. I didn't know this when I first played with Barnes and I was dissapointed with my groups. Once I learned this the groups closed in. I tend to take the minimum and max charge and find a middle and load those three in 5 shot groups. The worse I have had was a 3" group at 100yds. Take the best and add or subtract a grain and see what happens. Choose the best and start on your seating depth. Play around going farther and closer to the lands till you find an acceptable load.

    I always tell people getting into reloading that if you don't plan on shooting more than a box or two a year its not worth it if your going for cheaper cartriges. You spend a lot of money trying to find the perfect round but once you do its like the sea has parted and you will be glad you did your research and spent the time... and $$$

    Good luck
    Ignorance is not Bliss, it's insanity

  13. #13
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Midwest
    Posts
    4,431

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by limon32 View Post
    My .375 put 3 300 grain Federal Premium TSX onto paper with the holes touching a few years ago. POI was within an inch or so of the bullseye. Clearly the gun is capable of shooting very nice.

    This weekend I shot some handloaded 300 grain Partitions that were loaded in 1 grain increments from min. to a bit below max with IMR4064 in the Lyman manual. The POI was about 5 inches low and 3 inches left and the groups were around 3-5".

    Although un-happy with the groups I was more curious about the POI. Is it realistic that these handloads would change POI by 5" or has my scope lost zero? If the factory TSX were not $4 a round I would be much more tempted to go shoot a few but I thought I'd check with the experts first!

    Thanks in advance!
    There are many variable that effect bullet flight not the least of which is velocity which can vary greatly between handloads and factory. Generally, Barnes solid copper POI is significantly different from cup?core, partition, and A-frame bonded. Each of those bullet types may be several inches different. If you mean 5" at 100 yards I'd just adjust the scope and continue with load development with the bullet you want to use. Also make sure you're doing your part. A once in a life time group fired from a rifle is of no value unless it can be duplicated on demand. One of the most accurate rifles I've ever owned fired a 6" group the first time I fired it,. Now after thousands of rounds through it it still will hold 1/2 MOA and better at 300 yards. A 375 is not an easy rifle to shoot tiny groups with from the bench. Try H4350 powder with the 300 Partition.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



  14. #14
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    AK
    Posts
    4,034

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Murphy View Post
    There are many variable that effect bullet flight not the least of which is velocity which can vary greatly between handloads and factory. Generally, Barnes solid copper POI is significantly different from cup?core, partition, and A-frame bonded. Each of those bullet types may be several inches different. If you mean 5" at 100 yards I'd just adjust the scope and continue with load development with the bullet you want to use. Also make sure you're doing your part. A once in a life time group fired from a rifle is of no value unless it can be duplicated on demand. One of the most accurate rifles I've ever owned fired a 6" group the first time I fired it,. Now after thousands of rounds through it it still will hold 1/2 MOA and better at 300 yards. A 375 is not an easy rifle to shoot tiny groups with from the bench. Try H4350 powder with the 300 Partition.
    Thanks for the input Murphy, funny you mentioned 4350, I picked up some I4350 to try with those partitions and some Hornady Intrlock RN. They didn't have any H4350 so I bought the I4350, seemed to be close.

    I haven't been back out to the range but i'll follow up here when I get a chance.

  15. #15
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    AK
    Posts
    4,034

    Default

    Well I finally shot the factory Federals again tonight, they ended up shooting about an inch higher than the 300gr Sierra SPBT over IMR-4350. Scope ended up needing adjustment also. Seems I had two issues going on at the same time.

    Thanks again for all the input!

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •