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Thread: Please Help: Sighting In Issues

  1. #1
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    Default Please Help: Sighting In Issues

    I have a 1903 Enfield .30-06, made by Eddystone that was sporterized prior to me inheriting it. Even though it wasn't worth much, the gun has a lot of sentimental value to me. This fall I had it parkerized since the blueing was almost completely rubbed off. At that time I also refinished the stock. It had an old Weaver 3-9x40 scope on it with Leupold STD base and rings. The scope was in rough shape and my budget is tight so I got a Redfield 4-12x40. It seems like a decent scope for the money so far.

    Now for the problem:

    After getting the gun back together I cannot get it to zero. The bullet point of impact is 3" low with the scope's elevation maxed out. I was about to return the Redfield and decided to try the old Weaver again. The POI is still low and I did notice it's elevation was almost maxed out. Before changing anything, the gun shot fine and always held zero. There were a couple of (I'm assuming) shims under the rear of the scope mount when I took it apart. My question is, what can I do to fix the POI? I don't like the idea of shims but I don't want to spend a fortune on the mount. As much sentimental value as the gun has, I just can't spend a bunch more money on it. Any suggestions would be GREATLY appreciated.

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    Member hodgeman's Avatar
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    You'll need to put the shims back in.

    Not that uncommon to see shims on older rifles- particularly sporterized military ones.
    "I do not deal in hypotheticals. The world, as it is, is vexing enough..." Col. Stonehill, True Grit

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    Quote Originally Posted by SLDMTN View Post
    I have a 1903 Enfield .30-06, made by Eddystone that was sporterized prior to me inheriting it. Even though it wasn't worth much, the gun has a lot of sentimental value to me. This fall I had it parkerized since the blueing was almost completely rubbed off. At that time I also refinished the stock. It had an old Weaver 3-9x40 scope on it with Leupold STD base and rings. The scope was in rough shape and my budget is tight so I got a Redfield 4-12x40. It seems like a decent scope for the money so far.

    Now for the problem:

    After getting the gun back together I cannot get it to zero. The bullet point of impact is 3" low with the scope's elevation maxed out. I was about to return the Redfield and decided to try the old Weaver again. The POI is still low and I did notice it's elevation was almost maxed out. Before changing anything, the gun shot fine and always held zero. There were a couple of (I'm assuming) shims under the rear of the scope mount when I took it apart. My question is, what can I do to fix the POI? I don't like the idea of shims but I don't want to spend a fortune on the mount. As much sentimental value as the gun has, I just can't spend a bunch more money on it. Any suggestions would be GREATLY appreciated.
    Depending on a couple of factors you might use a set of Burris Signature Rings with their inserts allowing elevation adjustment rather than shims under the base. The inserts can be bought in sets of multiples or individually but I'd recommend the set as you can put inserts in both rings for maximum effect. I've used this setup many times before and it works quite well when something is out of whack.
    Foolishness is a moral category, not an intellectual one.

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    Thanks for the quick response. Any suggestions on the type of shim material? How much is too much? I am figuring it need somewhere in the range of .07-.09".

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    Quote Originally Posted by SLDMTN View Post
    Thanks for the quick response. Any suggestions on the type of shim material? How much is too much? I am figuring it need somewhere in the range of .07-.09".
    Why not reuse the old shims?
    Foolishness is a moral category, not an intellectual one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1Cor15:19 View Post
    Depending on a couple of factors you might use a set of Burris Signature Rings with their inserts allowing elevation adjustment rather than shims under the base. The inserts can be bought in sets of multiples or individually but I'd recommend the set as you can put inserts in both rings for maximum effect. I've used this setup many times before and it works quite well when something is out of whack.
    Hey I like the look of those. Do you know if the signature standard rings will work with a Leupold STD base? I'm assuming they're compatible by the look of them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1Cor15:19 View Post
    Why not reuse the old shims?
    Stupidly I misplaced them from the time I took the gun in to the time I reassembled it.

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    I love those sporterized Enfields. Lots of work went into sporterizing them. They're Beeg & Strong. Suitable for big cartridges. They don't seem to get the respect they deserve any more

    The option I would choose, is weaver bases, and get a gunsmith to machine them.

    Shimming the bases is fine if it's a good job, and doesn't leave empty spase under the base.

    That opinion is bases on only one experience I had.

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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    On my 1917 Enfield 30-06 I gave up on a scope and put on a peep and have not looked back.
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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    Sponsor ADfields's Avatar
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    I’m with Smitty, mill the mounts to match the rifle. Doesn’t need to be a Weaver set-up there are ways to tweak most mounts and to me it’s just part and parcel of a quality mounting job.
     
    Shims work but they add another failure point, decreased stability setting you up for galvanic corrosion down the road due to dissimilar metals in contact. At best you want “shim stock” because it is a true uniform thickness and you get it at good automotive stores, machining supply stores, machine shops, or the web. You can make due with tin can lids, sheet stock from a hobby shop and a lot of other things. But to me no matter what you use it’s a compromise that will likely give you fits at some point rather than a permanent repair.
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    I may be totally wrong in my thinking here, so I am asking for my own education. If the POI on the OP's rifle is LOW with the elevation maxed out, would he not need to shim the FRONT base rather than the rear? I realize if we were dealing with irons sights the rear would go up due to the two point aiming. But is that true with a scope? With a scope reticle being a single point I presumed you would move the front of the scope to accomplish what is needed. I haven't had any coffee yet so maybe my head's muddy. It just didn't seem to make sense that you'd shim the rear.

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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    Think you are right on that
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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    Member 1Cor15:19's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLDMTN View Post
    Hey I like the look of those. Do you know if the signature standard rings will work with a Leupold STD base? I'm assuming they're compatible by the look of them.
    They are interchangeable.
    Foolishness is a moral category, not an intellectual one.

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    No the shims go under the back.

    I am thinking an Eddystone is a 1917, but I'm sure you know what you have. If a 1917, when those rifles are reworked the rear sight and ears, about the size of a Volkswagen, are milled off to make a nice flat to on which to mount a scope. They are made to fit various scope bases and what ever that was I guess you've found it. But if an original '03, here again I'm sure you have that figured out, you have bases that fit.
    About the shims. When the rifle shoots low we adjust the scope in the UP direction. This is actually moving the reticle down, not up. The rifle shoots where it shoots, (POI) we adjust where we look, point of aim (POA). So the scope needs to look down more and shims under the back will help it to do that. We cannot bend the barrel to move the POI so we move the scope to adjust the POA. When we set a rifle up for the long line (800 to 1000 yards) we use a base with usually 20 MOA of drop (lower in front) so the scope can look way down to where the bullet will be when it reaches the target.
    I'm wondering how you calculated the shim thickness needed. I'd start with .020" but that is just a guess from all the times I've shimmed scope mounts. You want to over correct so you can center the reticle or near center after sighted in.
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    Quote Originally Posted by evandailey View Post
    I may be totally wrong in my thinking here, so I am asking for my own education. If the POI on the OP's rifle is LOW with the elevation maxed out, would he not need to shim the FRONT base rather than the rear? I realize if we were dealing with irons sights the rear would go up due to the two point aiming. But is that true with a scope? With a scope reticle being a single point I presumed you would move the front of the scope to accomplish what is needed. I haven't had any coffee yet so maybe my head's muddy. It just didn't seem to make sense that you'd shim the rear.
    Uhn-uh.....have you seen one of the long line scope mounts with 20 MOA drop?
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



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    Lift the rear of the scope to make the rifle aim, (shoot), higher. Just like an iron sight. Don't over think it.
    "A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise, and independence to the mind."

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    I Cor. 15:19's post #3 seems to have the most merit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gunbugs View Post
    Lift the rear of the scope to make the rifle aim, (shoot), higher. Just like an iron sight. Don't over think it.
    You always make it so simple. Wish I'd thought of that.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Murphy View Post
    Uhn-uh.....have you seen one of the long line scope mounts with 20 MOA drop?
    Quote Originally Posted by gunbugs View Post
    Lift the rear of the scope to make the rifle aim, (shoot), higher. Just like an iron sight. Don't over think it.
    That all makes perfect sense now that I'm fully awake and thinking clearly.

  20. #20
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    Murphy has it right. Don't waste money with a gunsmith or buying shims. Get a 20 MOA base for it. My predator rifle has a turret and is very capable of long distance shots but I didn't have enough adjustment in my turret. It was pretty maxed out on elevation, so I ordered a one piece 20 MOA base and now I have a total of 45 MOA total elevation from my hundred yards zero POI.

    I bought mine off MidwayUSA for $20 bucks but it looks like the enfield mounts are around 80 bucks.

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