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Thread: Community Harvest Discussion

  1. #1
    Member Yellowknife's Avatar
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    Default Community Harvest Discussion

    Is anybody paying attention to the BOG discussions going on today regarding the "Community Harvest" hunts in GMU 13? They have become so popular these last few years that F&G expects 49 "communities" to sign up this year with 1200 households and 2500 people. Talk about a program gone way out of control.

    Link to live feed:

    http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm...gameboard.main

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    Member martentrapper's Avatar
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    How can there be 49 "communities in 13?
    I can't help being a lazy, dumb, weekend warrior.......I have a JOB!
    I have less friends now!!

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    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by martentrapper View Post
    How can there be 49 "communities in 13?
    Any group of people can form their own "community", and they don't have to live in Unit 13. I can't recall the details, but what I remember is that you need 25 people to deem yourself a community (any group of friends and family works), and as long as you all agree to abide by the hunt rules, you then get an earlier season without antler restrictions. There are additional requirements such as organ salvage, but it's an odd deal for sure.

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    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
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    During the years I lived in 13 I was happy to be able to hunt under the Federal subsistence regs, even tho it severely limited where I could hunt, and have nothing to do with the State's silliness.
    ...he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods & errors. ~Thomas Jefferson
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    Member mod elan's Avatar
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    We can thank Ahtna for getting this one started. They initiated this then it was deemed unfair for them to get all the tags so then someone invented this fiasco

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    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mod elan View Post
    We can thank Ahtna for getting this one started. They initiated this then it was deemed unfair for them to get all the tags so then someone invented this fiasco
    Yeah, but the tier system that preceded the current fiasco wasn't much better.
    ...he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods & errors. ~Thomas Jefferson
    I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief. ~Gerry Spence
    The last thing Alaska needs is another bigot. ~member Catch It
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    Quote Originally Posted by iofthetaiga View Post
    During the years I lived in 13 I was happy to be able to hunt under the Federal subsistence regs, even tho it severely limited where I could hunt, and have nothing to do with the State's silliness.
    At least some GMU 13 residents can get both those fed permit(s) you say, plus whatever they can get from the State's silliness.

    About that last thing, I have to say that their silliness about this has gotten less silly the past few years. Was way worse.

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    Member mod elan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FamilyMan View Post
    At least some GMU 13 residents can get both those fed permit(s) you say, plus whatever they can get from the State's silliness.
    Negative. Any state taken bou is counted against the first fed tag. I got one up north this fall so can only get one here in 13 this winter. It's not 2 plus more elsewhere.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mod elan View Post
    Negative. Any state taken bou is counted against the first fed tag. I got one up north this fall so can only get one here in 13 this winter. It's not 2 plus more elsewhere.
    So it is an "or" type of situation. Thanks for correcting. I must've heard wrong from a guy that lives there; I'm in 14 myself.

  10. #10

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    So, with everything that's going on... Federal Subsistance,Drawing,Community Harvest, Tier I, and all the extra Draw tags they gave out. The season is still open right? They haven't hit the magic number yet? haha

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    We have such, without official sanction, in Unit 23 as tradition, and they go off at each village during Big Search and Rescue searches, funerals, gatherings and such. People just bring what they can and feast. People go out and hunt and contribute to feeding all the relatives that have arrived, local folks, workers when graves are dug, caskets built and the Potlatch thrown after the Funeral. Most are a 4 day wake.

    Theres nothing wrong with feeding alotta peole in one , litteral , Shot, and who ever does the shooting is litterally working for everyone else. When everyone thinks of one another, theres one mind. Honoring someones death with a feast should just be consitterd that persons last Catch.......Feeding alot of people healthy natural food and comming together to eat........isnt that the best reason to hunt?
    If you can't Kill it with a 30-06, you should Hide.

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    Member mod elan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FamilyMan View Post
    So it is an "or" type of situation. Thanks for correcting. I must've heard wrong from a guy that lives there; I'm in 14 myself.
    Correct. It is not accumulative. If I went up to the haul road and picked up 2 or more I do not get any Fed 13 bou.

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperCub View Post
    So, with everything that's going on... Federal Subsistance,Drawing,Community Harvest, Tier I, and all the extra Draw tags they gave out. The season is still open right? They haven't hit the magic number yet? haha
    Yup still open. Picking out bulls to fill the draw tags has proven difficult after the reopener Know a couple kids that are still trying to get theirs.

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    Member Ken R's Avatar
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    I think Ahtna has a proposal in again to change the number from 25 to 50. Apparently too many non-Ahtna were taking "their" moose.

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    Changing it to 50 wont fix the problem. There is no easy fix but I am tired of some of the shenanigans of a few native corps.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the outcome of the vote.--Benjamin Franklin

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken R View Post
    I think Ahtna has a proposal in again to change the number from 25 to 50. Apparently too many non-Ahtna were taking "their" moose.

    I find that odd. If the problem was to many non-Ahtna taking "thier" moose, Im thinking "They" would have wanted a reduction of said non-native moose takers......wouldn't the idea of a larger limit reflect a growing population or prehaps from economic need?
    If you can't Kill it with a 30-06, you should Hide.

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    Member Yellowknife's Avatar
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    I'm not sure if they took any action on the variety of CH proposals this afternoon, but from initial discussions it was clear that they (BOG) was going to either find a way to add additional barriers to becoming a "community" or reduce the benefits like that sweet early season any bull moose hunt to reduce the incentive to sign up for the program. I KNOW that there are some members of this board that signed up for this program this year, so they should be paying attention to the changes that are about to come down the pike.

    Was anybody present or listening in this afternoon that might be able to clue us into where they are going with the changes?

    Yk

  17. #17
    Member Ken R's Avatar
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    They actually have a number of proposals. In my opinion, they are well written--but, I wholeheartedly disagree with their proposals. One of them-Proposal 65 is steered toward Tier 1 caribou, but is consistent with their other proposals in that they want to exclude non-Ahtna's from this permit system- seems to want a combination of the old Tier 1 and new Tier 1. It seems they want a qualitative proposal for a permit that takes into account historical use, groups establishment of a history of subsistence, etc... kind of like the old system. I am quite sure this one is to weed out non-Ahtna. Proposal 68 is the one where they want the increase to "50 or more" users to qualify for the community harvest.

    Stranger--quite certain they are doing this for their benefit. I assume they think that by raising the limit there will be fewer groups able to come up with 50 people and take away "their" moose.

    Ahtna also thinks they know more about moose/caribou populations than the biologists and should be able to establish their own quotas--or at least have their input considered by biologists before establishing the quota for "their" moose (see proposal 69). I suppose some would argue that to be true, but I would say that opens the door to having the fox guard the chicken coop.

    A couple others are disturbing as well. They propose a number of predator control programs and specifically call for them to be held on "Ahtna in-holdings" (see Proposals 84 &85). So, they want the State to pay for predator control programs on their in-holdings yet not allow anyone else access. Then they have the audacity in Proposal 71 to request that non-residents have a 5 mile buffer on each side of the Richardson Highway in which they can't hunt. Which, for the most part, noone can do anyway since they have a majority of that land locked up already.

    This probably sounds like an anti-rant, but I am equally (or more so) unimpressed with other proposals by APHA, Parks Service, guides, various groups/councils and even most of the general public comments. But, APHA and this Ahtna group probably have the most sway-politically- to get what they want.

    I hesitate to even post this because I am sure there will be some wise-cracker comments about "what are you doing about it?", "why is it Ahtna's fault--they are just looking out for their best interests", "its "their moose" after all, etc... I'm just venting here is all. Don't read more into it than it is. Just not sure if people have taken the time to read all these proposals. FWIW--good luck to everyone on the draws tomorrow!

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    Unfortunatly many of the native corps are only out to change the system to make more money not to change it for the people. I say let them manage there land how they want but state and federal land should be managed for all alaskans in mind not just one group.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the outcome of the vote.--Benjamin Franklin

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    Any and all corperations are out for gain for "Thiers" be it Ahtna, IBM or Ford.
    If you can't Kill it with a 30-06, you should Hide.

    "Dam it all", The Beaver told me.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by strangerinastrangeland View Post
    Any and all corperations are out for gain for "Thiers" be it Ahtna, IBM or Ford.
    Yes, except not just corps.

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