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Thread: Fish politics . . .

  1. #1
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    Cool Fish politics . . .

    Just received from an acquaintance . . anyone else heard anything?



    http://www.scribd.com/doc/123411209/...letter-to-KRSA



  2. #2
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    Board "confidential" draft....


    Well, not anymore.
    "Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." Zane Grey
    http://www.piscatorialpursuits.com/uploads/UP12710.jpg
    The KeenEye MD

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    Default toothless dog...


    Kinda reminds me of the time Gramps threaten to sue me for my posts on this forum

    Are they also going to demand prosecution of the person who "leaked" the confidential draft? Obviously it was one of their members or employees. Likewise, the call in number and code for the conference call had to be leaked by an insider / member.

    From what I've seen their chances of getting anyone prosecuted are slim.

    It will be interesting to see what was discussed, especially if questionable activities were involved.



    Quote Originally Posted by fishNphysician View Post
    Board "confidential" draft....


    Well, not anymore.
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

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    Hope you don't get sued for posting that.

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    Wink Golly whiz . . . thanks for your concern . .

    Quote Originally Posted by yukon View Post
    Hope you don't get sued for posting that.


    I'm sure you do . .






    Wanna read more, good buddy?



    Here you go: http://deckboss.blogspot.com/


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    Default sued..

    Suing is easy - winning and collecting is the hard part! The fishermen would have to prove they suffered losses and /or damages- that would be fun to hear.

    Or they could try to convince that feds to prosecute for violations of the laws they cited. Good luck with that also - the feds have a lot more important things to worry about.

    Gramps threatening to sue me was the really funny part- one anonymous person slandering another anonymous person on a open forum


    Quote Originally Posted by yukon View Post
    Hope you don't get sued for posting that.
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

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    Sort of an odd letter in that a draft letter is never signed. That's what makes it a draft. But if a letter is signed, it's final. That letter is signed. As such, it ain't a draft. So I'm not sure how this letter can be considered anything but public information.

    Also, this is a complete non-issue unless the aggrieved party can show some harm. How was UFA harmed by the unauthorized participation of another group? The letter does not say. The letter contends that something illegal may have occurred but they don't indicate how they were harmed. I agree that KRSA might have obtained some 'inside information' that UFA would rather have kept private, but unless someone can show how they've been harmed, nothing will come of it. Nor should it.

  8. #8

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    Nothing should come from one organization allegedly listening in on another organizations board meetings? Can I listen in too?

    I for one am relieved to hear that these guys are keeping their ear to the ground. After all, they're dedicated to ensuring the sustainability of the Kenai, right? We should take them at their word. I don't care how many politicians may be paid off, how many phones may be tapped, how many laws may be broken, how many Alaskan jobs are lost, so long as these people eliminate commercial fishing, and cram as many fish as possible into a Catch and Release Kenai River running at replacement point. That would be the best thing for all Alaskans, right?

    Crooked people, crooked politics. I just wanna go fishing!

  9. #9

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    Everyone, you're missing the point here. This isn't about legalities, its about ETHICS, and KRSA has shown over the years that they have none. Through their lobbying efforts over the years they have demonstrated just how unethical an organization with money and power can be. There is no question that they lead the state in that category where fishery politics is concerned. With all the dinners, drinks, fishing trips, lodging, etc. they control who gets on the BOF and the BOF process itself. They are dirty, dirty, dirty and someday someone in the governor's office has to wake up to that fact. Sooner or later this has to catch up to them. There has to still be some ethical people around to make this blemish on the BOF process go away.

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    Default good catch..

    Good catch - you are absolutely correct - no one signs a DRAFT letter! Obviously there is something more going on here than meets the eye. In addition, discussing important or sensitive issues in an open unscrambled conference call is not normally done.

    I also pointed out the "show harm" issue - what harm was done and how can the damage be proved even if they could prove someone listened in and gathered some sort of information.

    Overall, the whole thing sounds like the UFA fishermen were getting advice from North Korea on how to intimidate the enemy




    Quote Originally Posted by Cohoangler View Post
    Sort of an odd letter in that a draft letter is never signed. That's what makes it a draft. But if a letter is signed, it's final. That letter is signed. As such, it ain't a draft. So I'm not sure how this letter can be considered anything but public information.

    Also, this is a complete non-issue unless the aggrieved party can show some harm. How was UFA harmed by the unauthorized participation of another group? The letter does not say. The letter contends that something illegal may have occurred but they don't indicate how they were harmed. I agree that KRSA might have obtained some 'inside information' that UFA would rather have kept private, but unless someone can show how they've been harmed, nothing will come of it. Nor should it.
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

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    Question How

    Quote Originally Posted by tvfinak View Post
    In addition, discussing important or sensitive issues in an open unscrambled conference call is not normally done.
    How is it normally done?

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    Face-face, or over a secure or scrambled line.

    If you send out an email, as is normally done, with the conference number and code anyone with those numbers can listen in.


    Quote Originally Posted by FamilyMan View Post
    How is it normally done?
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

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    Default secure call?

    Quote Originally Posted by tvfinak View Post
    Face-face, or over a secure or scrambled line.
    Of course F2F. Sorry to digress, and sorry if I'm behind the times, but I was a STU-II (govm't approved secure phone, like what the pres. used/uses) factory-trained hardware technician 30 years ago, so I do understand securing communications, but how does a private org do that today?

  14. #14

    Default Unethical at best

    Signed or unsigned, its hard to believe that KRSA would stoop to that level. At best, it was completely unethical, even if there is no legitimate lawsuit.

    I am surprised at the number of people defending KRSA's actions and faulting UFA. It's as if blatantly unethical behavior is totally acceptable--as long as you have a common opponent.

    Equally problematic is that they have such a cozy relationship with Johnstone that they freely brought the information to him and he fully acknowledged getting it.

    It's a sad state of affairs when UFA is being faulted for KRSA's espionage, and even more worrisome that those actions are supported by people whose job it is "to conserve and develop fishery resources of the state".

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    Default not the smartest...

    The eaves dropping action by a member or members of KRSA as indeed not ethical. Unfortunatly, it is a common action and I won't be surprised if someone at UFA won't do the same thing. We also don't know if the action was conducted by KRSA as a group or by one or more members. We also don't know how the information to intercept the conference call was obtained - it is highly likely it was "leaked" by a UFA memeber.

    Publishing a signed draft letter was not the smartest thing to do but I don't think anyone would call that action "wrong" in any moral sense. Likewise for discussing any important matters on a call in telephone conferences - not too smart but not morally wrong.

    i think we need more information before we place any blame on the KRSA as a group, At the same time, I think we can assume that the UFA is probably blamesless of anything other than poor judgement.


    Quote Originally Posted by AKJOB View Post
    Signed or unsigned, its hard to believe that KRSA would stoop to that level. At best, it was completely unethical, even if there is no legitimate lawsuit.

    I am surprised at the number of people defending KRSA's actions and faulting UFA. It's as if blatantly unethical behavior is totally acceptable--as long as you have a common opponent.

    Equally problematic is that they have such a cozy relationship with Johnstone that they freely brought the information to him and he fully acknowledged getting it.

    It's a sad state of affairs when UFA is being faulted for KRSA's espionage, and even more worrisome that those actions are supported by people whose job it is "to conserve and develop fishery resources of the state".
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

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    You move too fast for me; I'm still trying to figure out how they could have "scrambled" the call as you originally recommended.

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by AKPacman View Post
    Everyone, you're missing the point here. This isn't about legalities, its about ETHICS, and KRSA has shown over the years that they have none. Through their lobbying efforts over the years they have demonstrated just how unethical an organization with money and power can be. There is no question that they lead the state in that category where fishery politics is concerned. With all the dinners, drinks, fishing trips, lodging, etc. they control who gets on the BOF and the BOF process itself. They are dirty, dirty, dirty and someday someone in the governor's office has to wake up to that fact. Sooner or later this has to catch up to them. There has to still be some ethical people around to make this blemish on the BOF process go away.
    What facts do you have to support your blanket negative allegations. I cant stand when people make statements like yours and no facts to back them up, I would call that slander.

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    Default from another angle..

    Wonder what the outcry would be if the situation was reversed?

    You can bet the silence from the commercial fishermen and their supporters would be deafening. It is perfectly OK for them tp slander others, but if someone makes a negative statment about commercial fishing all heck breaks loose.

    Amazing how that works!

    Quote Originally Posted by SkwentnaMan View Post
    What facts do you have to support your blanket negative allegations. I cant stand when people make statements like yours and no facts to back them up, I would call that slander.
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by SkwentnaMan View Post
    What facts do you have to support your blanket negative allegations. I cant stand when people make statements like yours and no facts to back them up, I would call that slander.
    I don't think you understand how the series of tubes works. Or the difference between slander and libel, neither of which are displayed here.

  20. #20

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    Slander…Libel, really? Do folks not realize that this forum is no more than a gathering of personal opinions on a given subject? Do you really think that I am the first person to label KRSA’s fisheries political practices as unethical? Proof...just attend a BOF meeting anywhere, it doesn't matter because they attend all of them regardless of where they are at or what the area of subject is just to wine and dine and further laisons with board members. I don't know of any other organization that has an interest in going this far just to leverage the process.

    Friends of mine down in the Kenai area tell me that this group is not respected or very well liked in their own neighborhood no less. If you’re not a guide or a politician you’re probably not a big fan.

    If I were UFA I’d be looking into who was the mole that provided KRSA with the time and number. They should fire them regardless of whether they are a board member or an employee.

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