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Thread: ffl question

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    Default ffl question

    in talking to someone about gun purchasing a question popped up and I do not know the answer.. This question is for the ffl license holders....can you legally refuse to sell a gun to someone even if they pass a background check based on behavior or if you think they are lieing or something or is that considered discrimination...thanks
    Dave

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    Of course.
    Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre minds. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Albert Einstein

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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    You can also say no.
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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    Sponsor ADfields's Avatar
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    Yes, itís just like you can refuse to sell your guide service, house, car, or anything else to someone . Race or sex dissemination is the only exception I can think of, I canít refuse to sell to someone solely because of their gender or race because itís illegal . . . Not to mention just plane wrong. If someone gives me the willies or I dislike their attitude Iíll send them packing no matter who they are though.
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    Member GrassLakeRon's Avatar
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    Yes you can.

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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    Unless of course its part of the government fast and furious program them you must sell to everyone.
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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    Thanks fellas. Knew the answer was pretty obvious but I try not to answer people's questions with knowing the answers...lol

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    The ffl holder is not always the one "selling" the gun. He/she is often just the receiving agent when a gun is sent thru the mail for whatever reason. In the case of a sale, the ffl holder is the one who does the NICS check before the person can take possesion of the gun.
    It would be interesting if an ffl refused to transfer a gun to a person who did pass the NICS check.
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    Quote Originally Posted by martentrapper View Post
    The ffl holder is not always the one "selling" the gun. He/she is often just the receiving agent when a gun is sent thru the mail for whatever reason. In the case of a sale, the ffl holder is the one who does the NICS check before the person can take possesion of the gun.
    It would be interesting if an ffl refused to transfer a gun to a person who did pass the NICS check.
    HMMMM never though of that... I would be interested in everyones thoughts on that one..

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    Quote Originally Posted by martentrapper View Post
    The ffl holder is not always the one "selling" the gun. He/she is often just the receiving agent when a gun is sent thru the mail for whatever reason. In the case of a sale, the ffl holder is the one who does the NICS check before the person can take possesion of the gun.
    It would be interesting if an ffl refused to transfer a gun to a person who did pass the NICS check.
    Case by case, only one I had buyer not get NICS ok so far the guy had me send it to Washington through another FFL . . . gifted it to his dad.


    When itís their property and I have it there isnít much choice but to give them their property . . . unless they get declined or delayed and doing so is illegal.
     
    As an FFL thatís a spooky one though, if they were to say something like "I'll have my wife come get it" we would be into the straw buy. The buyer owns it but canít possess it but he can sell or gift his interest in it to someone. I'd then want something to CYA like a copy of a bill of sale from him to her or something. See if I believe she is picking it up for him that would mean I have knowledge of a straw buy . . . So Iíll want something solid saying that it isnít a straw buy that I can show ATF in case there is ever an issue.


    Reasonable folks, we can always figure something out somehow . . . Unreasonable folks, well . . .
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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    Andy in those cases I transfered the gun to the local P.D. as they can do the paper work and CYA. When I had a pawn shop it happened a few times a year..
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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    Yup Will that was my ďwellď option I didn't much want to spell out, let the Troopers deal with unreasonable folks. With reasonable people who understand Iím in the mess with them not the enemy there are a lot of possibilities;
    Return to seller, shipping and restocking fees would apply.
    Sell it for owner on consignment, owner likely to loose some money there too.
    Let owner sell to a qualified buyer and transfer to new owner.
    Maybe just buy them out of it myself even.
     
    Pawn shops I bet do run into that quite a bit, guy pawns his gun then canít pass NICS to get it out. Thatís a can-o-worms there! For me itís just ordering guns or Gunbroker, donít need a NICS to give back guns I work on to their owner . . . Yet anyway.
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    Is a NICS check required if the FFL is just receiving the gun, like it was mailed? Not a purchase in other words.
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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    The gun must go to the same person it came from or have a 4473 filled out.
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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    I was "delayed" a few years back. (This was before I got denied" a few years later, took a year to get that squared away) Anyway, after 24hrs the dealer had still not hear back from NICS so chose to sell me the firearm. He could have chose not too. I think it was 24hrs, isn't that the way it works, ffl guys? Delayed, no response from NICS after 24hrs it's left to the FFL's discretion?

    I just looked it up, 3 days. It must have been 3 days then.
    A gun is like a parachute. If you need one, and donít have one, youíll probably never need one again

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    Sponsor ADfields's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by martentrapper View Post
    Is a NICS check required if the FFL is just receiving the gun, like it was mailed? Not a purchase in other words.
    Say you give me a gun to work on then it would need no NICS to give it back but it has to go back from whence it came to me or it becomes a transfer just like a sale. So if you hand it to me I can hand it back and if shipped to me I can ship it back . . . but if you hand it to me I canít ship it back to you without an FFL and if you shipped it to me I canít then just hand it to you without a NICS/4473.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snyd View Post
    I was "delayed" a few years back. (This was before I got denied" a few years later, took a year to get that squared away) Anyway, after 24hrs the dealer had still not hear back from NICS so chose to sell me the firearm. He could have chose not too. I think it was 24hrs, isn't that the way it works, ffl guys? Delayed, no response from NICS after 24hrs it's left to the FFL's discretion?

    I just looked it up, 3 days. It must have been 3 days then.
    After 3 full business days at FFLs discretion . . . Day of delay isnít a full day and you canít go till AFTER the 3rd full business day.

    Itís confusing enough that in true government fashion they supply a flow chart.
    Delayed Monday ok Friday
    Tuesday ok Saturday
    Wednesday ok Tuesday
    Thursday ok Wednesday
    Friday, Saturday, or Sunday ok Thursday

    So pick the wrong day to start and you end up as much as 6 days out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADfields View Post
    After 3 full business days at FFLs discretion . . . Day of delay isnít a full day and you canít go till AFTER the 3rd full business day.

    Itís confusing enough that in true government fashion they supply a flow chart.
    Delayed Monday ok Friday
    Tuesday ok Saturday
    Wednesday ok Tuesday
    Thursday ok Wednesday
    Friday, Saturday, or Sunday ok Thursday

    So pick the wrong day to start and you end up as much as 6 days out.
    I don't understand this. Every time I have bought one and sold one check time is within minutes. The fastest was cabelas and that was less then 60 seconds! It sounds like that ffl was taking their sweet time. Why don't you just get your own? Mine was six days from the time I sent it in to the time I received it and could start buying....

    Ron
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    Sponsor ADfields's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrassLakeRon View Post
    I don't understand this. Every time I have bought one and sold one check time is within minutes. The fastest was cabelas and that was less then 60 seconds! It sounds like that ffl was taking their sweet time. Why don't you just get your own? Mine was six days from the time I sent it in to the time I received it and could start buying....

    Ron
    Get my own what, FFL? I have an FFL 07, Manufacture of firearms other than destructive devices . . . took me more like 6 months to process.
     
    What we are talking about is buyers NICS check. If it comes back as ďdelayedĒ the FFL can then, at FFLs discretion make the transfer after 3 full business days if NICS hasnít changes it in that time.
    http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics/federal-firearms-licensees/a-nics-delay
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  20. #20
    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    Ya NCIS check is fed doing not the shops.Shops want the money now not have to wait three days where they may lose the sale.
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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