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Thread: Hand gun grip instructor near Fairbanks?

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    Default Hand gun grip instructor near Fairbanks?

    I suspect all roads are going to point to Joe Nava; heard a bunch about him, all of it good.

    I am struggling with my grip. I have three different factory grips for my Redhawk, in the last six weeks each has gotten a two week trial.

    What I have observed is when I pick up my Redhawk with a new unfamiliar to me grip I get great groups. Within two weeks, shooting a now familiar grip, my groups open up.

    My hand size is pretty average, 95mm accross the part Nil Griffe wants measured for custom grips, right smack in the middle of the range for standard size grips.

    So I think I need to fix my brain instead of change the physical stocks on my revolver again.

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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    Probably the trigger finger more than the grip.
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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    I had the same phenomena when I was shooting competitive target archery. After a while my scores would slip and I'd freak out and buy a new bow. Then it became a downhill slide with a new bow every month (thank god for Ebay). With a new bow (new gun, new pistol, etc..) you concentrate hard on making a good shot because the weapon feels unfamiliar. Once it becomes familiar you start to sink back into your old bad habits...anticipating the shot, jerking the trigger, flinching, etc... Then you blame the weapon and feel the need to modify it or buy a new one and the cycle starts all over again. I got good coaching and the problem slowed down, but I still got frustrated and bought new bows at a slower rate. Finally I got some mental sports training and I've now had the same bow for years. It's hard to admit that YOU are the problem, not the equipment. If you aren't into competition, going to a good coach is still worth the money.

    The other thing you have to commit to is keeping accurate records of your performance, whether it be scores shot at a certain distance, group sizes, speed, or a combination of the list. Without an accurate record the changes to your weapon cannot be properly adjusted.

    Lanny Bassham at http://mentalmanagement.ipower.com/ will straighten your mental game right out if you are in to competition.
    Bunny Boots and Bearcats: Utility Sled Mayhem

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amigo Will View Post
    Probably the trigger finger more than the grip.
    Yup, the trigger finger. When I work the trigger with the tip of my trigger finger I have a fighting chance at a good group. When my hand wraps further around the grip so that I operate the trigger with the first joint of my trigger finger, my groups go to hell.

    So I need either a grip or a grip on the grip...

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    Quote Originally Posted by AKDoug View Post
    It's hard to admit that YOU are the problem, not the equipment. If you aren't into competition, going to a good coach is still worth the money.

    The other thing you have to commit to is keeping accurate records of your performance, whether it be scores shot at a certain distance, group sizes, speed, or a combination of the list. Without an accurate record the changes to your weapon cannot be properly adjusted.

    Lanny Bassham at http://mentalmanagement.ipower.com/ will straighten your mental game right out if you are in to competition.
    Thanks, it took years to learn to be honest with myself. Now that I have achieved it, it was very much worth it. Lanny looks like worth a read. Do you have a favorite title in there, or did you do a live class?

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    The book I started with was "With Winning in Mind" http://mentalmanagement.ipower.com/c...cts-type/books
    Bunny Boots and Bearcats: Utility Sled Mayhem

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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    Try making a little splint so your finger tip knuckle can't move at all. Only the middle knuckle should have movement.
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amigo Will View Post
    Try making a little splint so your finger tip knuckle can't move at all. Only the middle knuckle should have movement.
    This seems to be the short answer. I spent some time at the range this afternoon with, lets say someone with a little more grey in their beard than I have in mine. He said try holding the gun so it was comfortable in my hand, but then put more bow in my trigger finger so I was operating the trigger with just the tip of my trigger finger.

    It worked. One day so far, but it worked.

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    I find many different results form new and not so new shooters when they get to thinking their grip isn't right...all bad.

    I teach a lot of handgun courses now, primarily advanced technique for those who aspire to law enforcement careers or those who want to be competitive on the handgun shooting circuit. Almost universally grip problems that result in large groups are not grip problems at all. There are some inherent aspects of the revolver that do not fit with what we want for grip/trigger finger placement/recoil management. Also I believe that far too often we begin technique shooting before we have the basics of marksmanship.

    Essentially what must happen is that we must align the pistol with lower arm bones and a locked wrist. This should place the pad (the meaty part between the tip and the first joint) of the trigger finger on the trigger squarely. We then must grip tight enough that the gun doesn't move in recoil between shots. (this is so much more important than most realize) But this is not really possible for the heavy recoilers so adjustments must be made between shots to get all alignment back together. With the auto-loaders we find this can be accomplished for most and is best aided with a two handed grip though that may complicate matters and requires the utmost in consistency to be effective. Our grip and stance and such are often a compromise to facilitate recoil recovery and increase the speed of the shot sequence. These are not necessarily the best for the best group in slow deliberate fire. In my classes I tell my students that a good group is 3 inches at 25 yards. I can still do that and demonstrate that in front of the class before we begin. I find students listen when they know you're for real. For my advanced students classes I begin with them demonstrating a two handed, good slow fire group at the 15 yard line. I want ten shot in a 3" ten ring of a bullseye target. I feel this is basics. This shows me they can concentrate on the basics and they are serious about the class. If we can't get there I have to wonder about the goals of the class.

    Many shooters today don't understand the front sight focus throughout the shot sequence. There are many who still believe that they should align the sights then jerk the trigger quickly before the sights wonder out of alignment. We must train the trigger finger to press while we focus on the sights. I shoot bullseye slow-fire at fifty yards. The ten ring is three inches. I am a 2600 shooter. (Actually my last match was 2612-64x) What that means is that 96.2% of my shots go in the ten ring. 3" @ 50 slow, 3"@ 25 timed and rapid. Not bragging just letting you know a handgun is very accurate and responds well to correct technique.

    I believe your grouping problem is that you do not maintain focus on the sight to insure alignment and your trigger work is lacking. So many feel the must hold the gun completely still to get a good hit, not true you just must maintain perfect sight alignment while the gun shakes in your hand. And of course break the shot while the sights are aligned on the target aim point, without disturbing the sight alignment. That's all there is to it.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    Most can shot a rubber band off their finger very accurate but change that penny rubber band to a thousand dollar handgun and confusion sets it.
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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    Moderator Paul H's Avatar
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    Have you tried dry firing?

    If you put in regular sessions of quality dry firing, i.e. concentrating on sight picture and perfect form click after click, it will pay huge dividends in your live firing. The key is just as with live firing, don't keep going when your concentration is gone. You might find after 25 clicks your concentration is shot. Fine, put the gun away and try again the next day.

    One thing I've learned with my kids music lessons and practice is you don't have to practice something 1000 times a day to improve, but you do have to practice perfectly every time you practice to improve and to be able to perform well.
    Those that are successful in Alaska are those who are flexible, and allow the reality of life in Alaska to shape their dreams, vs. trying to force their dreams on the reality of Alaska.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul H View Post
    Have you tried dry firing?

    If you put in regular sessions of quality dry firing, i.e. concentrating on sight picture and perfect form click after click, it will pay huge dividends in your live firing. The key is just as with live firing, don't keep going when your concentration is gone. You might find after 25 clicks your concentration is shot. Fine, put the gun away and try again the next day.

    One thing I've learned with my kids music lessons and practice is you don't have to practice something 1000 times a day to improve, but you do have to practice perfectly every time you practice to improve and to be able to perform well.
    That's great advice. I can't imagine anyone ever getting the basics down without dry fire practice, especially with a heavy caliber caliber. Also the Redhawk frame is designed to allow the shooter to fire DA as well as SA so it is not ideal for either. Grips may help but one would need to know what must be corrected before buying grips. If a person can dry fire without the sight shaking out of the notch, you could get a good shot but if not, there's no way shots will be good if the sight alignment fails in dry fire.
    Mike
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    If you dry fire with a laser mounted to your weapon and you will see when your trigger finger pulls the "shot" off target. It has helped me focus on breathing and trigger finger consistancy. Saves ammo cost as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph View Post
    If you dry fire with a laser mounted to your weapon and you will see when your trigger finger pulls the "shot" off target. It has helped me focus on breathing and trigger finger consistancy. Saves ammo cost as well.
    That's true but to see the laser you must watch the red dot of the laser. That is a bad habit and contradictory to good marksmanship practice One must focus on the front sight and look for sight movement when the hammer falls. Try dry fire with a dime on the front sight. Don't let it fall.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



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    Another technique used for both one-hand and two-hand shooting with a 1911 style platform is serrate/checker the front strap aggressively- meaning that you’ll have sharp dimple like points on that front strap, so when you squeeze the grip you start realizing there are sharp points on the front strap.

    The amount of grip pressure needed to handle the recoil without any movement in your grip with be at a certain discomfort level (for lack of a better term) - just squeeze to that level and maintain that level of discomfort throughout your string of fire.

    I sold my match pistols last year, except of the Model 41, but if you look close you can see the sharp “dimples” on the 1911.

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    Murphy has a good handle on it. It is YOU, not the grip. The grip MUST be held the same shot to shot and the pad of the finger only on the trigger.
    My biggest gripe with shooters is "roll" of the gun---WRONG!
    A bow is different because the problem is you get so strong you can not get your fingers to let the string pull loose so you keep needing a stronger bow. Been there, done that.
    Recoil can make you shift the grip, again wrong. If it hurts, change the grips not how you hold the gun.
    The RH is not the best grip to start with. It can't be improved much. It will shoot but you dare not change how it is held. The Bisley is the same.
    The S&W 29 is sensitive to hold and can move a group 10" at 50 meters by putting the gun down and picking it up again.

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