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Thread: .223 dies

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    Default .223 dies

    Can anyone tell me what the difference is between .223 dies and AR .223 dies?

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    OK....This just a guess.......The AR .223 dies should be full length resizing dies.

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    Default small base dies

    If you are going to use range brass I'd recommend the small base or SB dies. They size the base down more so the reloads will chamber in almost any gun.

    If you are only using brass fired in your gun about any dies should work


    Quote Originally Posted by cmp189ap View Post
    Can anyone tell me what the difference is between .223 dies and AR .223 dies?
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    Dang, from the topic title I thought you had info on how the day the 223 died, lol ( just kidding )

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    Quote Originally Posted by tvfinak View Post
    If you are going to use range brass I'd recommend the small base or SB dies. They size the base down more so the reloads will chamber in almost any gun.

    If you are only using brass fired in your gun about any dies should work
    I resized some once fired PMCs brass in SB dies, the brass was originally shot in my gun, after reloading they were still very "sticky", about one in 4 or so doesn't want to eject, you suppose I'm not running them down far enough? I thought I set up the die per the instructions but???

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rock_skipper View Post
    Dang, from the topic title I thought you had info on how the day the 223 died, lol ( just kidding )
    Me too. I was disappointed.

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    Ejecting isn't usually an issue with sizing of reloads. Have you checked the length on your brass, it might need to be trimmed. Is this in an AR?
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    There are what are called small based dies that are designed to size the case essentially all the way to the web as standard full length dies don't size the bottom ~ 1/32". That said, I've sized and loaded 1000's of .223 cases from pretty much every manufacturer both fired in my guns and fired in other guns. I've used a stadnard Redding full length sizing die and those cases have fed perfectly in both AR 15's and bolt rifles.
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    Default failure to eject...?

    Not sure what you mean by "failure to eject.."?

    Is this after the reloaded rounds are fired? If so, and the cases chamber just fine, then the dies aren't the issue. You may have the rounds loaded too hot, or perhaps other issues such as OA length or the PMC brass may be too soft etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by limon32 View Post
    I resized some once fired PMCs brass in SB dies, the brass was originally shot in my gun, after reloading they were still very "sticky", about one in 4 or so doesn't want to eject, you suppose I'm not running them down far enough? I thought I set up the die per the instructions but???
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    Quote Originally Posted by tvfinak View Post
    Not sure what you mean by "failure to eject.."?

    Is this after the reloaded rounds are fired? If so, and the cases chamber just fine, then the dies aren't the issue. You may have the rounds loaded too hot, or perhaps other issues such as OA length or the PMC brass may be too soft etc.
    I didn't explain that well, sorry. I've had several rounds that I chamber while calling, then when I try to eject the shell before putting the gun away I have to pull REALLY hard on the charging handle to extract the round. This is in a custom AR. I've not had ANY ejection problems when firing.

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    Check the rounds that are hard to eject and look for bright rub marks on the cases to see where the interference is occuring. If you are getting a bright ring around the case just above the extractor groove you may need a small base die to reduce hte case at that point down a bit more.

    You can also try adjusting the dies so that the shell holder bumps hard against the bottom of the die when sizing cases. That will size the case a tad more sometimes eliminate the problem if your gun has tight headspace and/or chamber. Worth a try and it doesn't cost anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by limon32 View Post
    I didn't explain that well, sorry. I've had several rounds that I chamber while calling, then when I try to eject the shell before putting the gun away I have to pull REALLY hard on the charging handle to extract the round. This is in a custom AR. I've not had ANY ejection problems when firing.
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    Thanks for the input, I am using small base dies, i'll check some of the brass, if I recall it seemed to be rubbing about mid case. I'm wonding if I just have a real tight chamber. Its only got about 60 rounds through it so far.

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    There is a possibilty your die might be set-up just a little tight and you might have to push back the shoulder just a tad.

    There are some great dies out now making everything pretty simple. Redding among others have body dies, taper dies, FL dies that size the neck with bushings (not recommended for AR's) and about anything else one would want - and using a progressive press you can load some mighty fine ammo in a hurry.

  14. #14

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    Not all AR style rifles are chambered the same, hope this helps :




    Is 5.56mm safe in my .223 Remington?

    The .223 Remington is a sporting cartridge with the same external dimensions as the 5.56x45mm NATO military cartridge. It is loaded with a .224" diameter, jacketed bullet, with weights ranging from 40 up to 90 grains, though the most common load by far is 55 grains.
    The primary differences between .223 Remington and 5.56 x 45 mm (NATO) are that .223 Remington is loaded to lower pressures and velocities compared to 5.56 NATO and the 5.56 NATO chamber has a longer leade. .223 Remington ammunition can be safely fired in a 5.56 NATO chambered gun, but the reverse can be an unsafe combination. The additional pressure created by 5.56 NATO ammo will frequently cause over-pressure problems such as flowing brass, difficult extraction, or popped/punctured primers, but in extreme cases, could damage or destroy the firearm. Chambers cut to .223 Remington specifications have a shorter leade (throat) area as well as slightly shorter headspace dimensions compared to 5.56 NATO "military" chamber specs, which contributes to the pressure issues.
    While the 5.56 NATO and .223 Remington cartridges are very similar, they are not identical. Military cases are made with thicker brass in the web area than commercial cases, which reduces the powder capacity (an important consideration for handloaders), and the NATO specification allows a higher chamber pressure. Test barrels made for 5.56 NATO cartridge measure chamber pressure at the case mouth, as opposed to the SAAMI (Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturer’s Institute) location. This difference accounts for upwards of 20,000+ psi difference in pressure measurements. That means that advertised pressure of 58,000 psi for 5.56 NATO, is around 78,000 psi tested in .223 Remington test barrels. SAAMI .223 Rem Proof MAP is 78,500 psi so every 5.56 NATO round fired is basically a proof load, potentially very dangerous. The 5.56 NATO chambers, also known as mil-spec chambers, have a longer leade, which is the distance between the mouth of the cartridge and the point at which the bullet engages the rifling of the barrel. The .223 Remington chambering, known as the "SAAMI chamber", is allowed to have a shorter leade, and is only required to be proof tested to the lower SAAMI chamber pressure. To address these issues, various proprietary chambers exist, such as the Wylde chamber, used by Rock River Arms or the Armalite chamber, which are designed to handle both 5.56 NATO and .223 Remington equally well.
    Using commercial .223 Remington cartridges in a 5.56 NATO chambered rifle should work reliably, but generally will not be as accurate as when fired from a .223 Remington chambered firearm due to the excessive leade. Using 5.56 NATO mil-spec cartridges (such as the M855) in a .223 Remington chambered firearm can lead to excessive wear and stress and even be unsafe, and the SAAMI recommends against the practice. Some commercial fireams marked as ".223 Remington" are in fact suited for 5.56 NATO, such as many commercial AR-15 variants and the Ruger Mini-14, but the manufacturer should always be consulted to verify that this is acceptable before attempting it. Signs of excessive pressure (such as flattening or puncturing of the primers) should also be looked for in initial 5.56 ammunition tests.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeJ View Post
    There is a possibilty your die might be set-up just a little tight and you might have to push back the shoulder just a tad.

    There are some great dies out now making everything pretty simple. Redding among others have body dies, taper dies, FL dies that size the neck with bushings (not recommended for AR's) and about anything else one would want - and using a progressive press you can load some mighty fine ammo in a hurry.
    How would I got about making that adjustment?

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    Quote Originally Posted by limon32 View Post
    How would I got about making that adjustment?
    I was refering to case to chamber headspace. On most AR's you need to bump the case shoulder back .004" to .006" - I was thinking maybe you had it initially adjusted properly and then with a couple firings the case started to spring back .001" to .0015" and it's now too tight.

    Without a case gauge you just have to guess and you do that by turning your resizing sizing die down just a tash and give it a try. If you have the die set so it touches the shellholder and you're caming-over, then you have no adjustment to make - but if you set the die up that's backed off 1/4 turn or more then just turn the die into the press just a small fraction like 1/16th of a turn - try it and if the problem persists, do another 1/16th.

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    Quote Originally Posted by limon32 View Post
    How would I got about making that adjustment?
    To correctly resize full length you raise the ram with the shell holder installed and screw the die down until it contacts the shell holder and stops. Tighten the lock nut and that will full length, SAAMI, resized and establishes the correct headspace for the cartridge. The 5.56, the 223 Rem, whether small base or not, if a FL sizer, has the same headspace. Small base dies, as the name says sizes the base down slightly more than standard FL.

    Neck dies do not size the base at all unless the chamber is over sized and allows the base section to expand too much. I think Redding dies are the best and most high volume loaders use them.
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    Thanks for the replies guys, i'll keep that in mind, I hope to load another 20 this weekend, i'll post what I find. Thanks again!

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    limon32,
    Is is a Rock River? A guy I work with was having the same problem you describe. His was an issue with the OAL of the cartride in the RRA "Wylde" chamber. The bullets were seated out just a little too far. They worked in the 5.56mm chamber just fine.
    Just a thought.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan J View Post
    limon32,
    Is is a Rock River? A guy I work with was having the same problem you describe. His was an issue with the OAL of the cartride in the RRA "Wylde" chamber. The bullets were seated out just a little too far. They worked in the 5.56mm chamber just fine.
    Just a thought.
    Mine is a "custom" upper with no brand on it, the outfit that put it together uses Rock River parts among others so I can't say for sure. It IS a Wylde chamber so perhaps your on to something. My buddy shot them out of his Remington R-15 and had just about every one of them stick on him. He's got my dies right now so i'm waiting to get them back then I'll run a few small batches and see what I can come up with and report back.

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