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Thread: Will They Allow King Fishing at Willow Creek?

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    Member germe1967's Avatar
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    Default Will They Allow King Fishing at Willow Creek?

    Hey all,

    Given the numbers and the EOs and all that went down last year, I wanted to get the predictions of some of the more experienced fishermen who have been frequenting that and other Parks Highway spots. Also, do you think we'll be back to the old way or having to stick with a single hook this year?

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    Member fishNphysician's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by germe1967 View Post
    Hey all,

    Given the numbers and the EOs and all that went down last year, I wanted to get the predictions of some of the more experienced fishermen who have been frequenting that and other Parks Highway spots. Also, do you think we'll be back to the old way or having to stick with a single hook this year?
    A precautionary approach will rule the day in the Susitna drainage.

    Set expectations accordingly.
    "Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." Zane Grey
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    Member power drifter's Avatar
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    I wish they would close kings state wide until somebody sorts this problem out.

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    Member thewhop2000's Avatar
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    I was told by a little birtee that no, any road accessable would be closed. Except the Deshka Talketna drainage. If I told you who is was, this bird would turn info a eagle,,, so I say not more
    If a dipnetter dips a fish and there is no one around to see/hear it, Did he really dip?

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    No, not anywhere off the Parks Highway this year...

    I suspect (the little birdy...) that the Deshka and Lake Creek will be open for some time period with a two fish seasonal limit and no bait, single hook. A token.

    There will probably be the usual Commercial/Subsistence (??? pftt!) fishing in western Cook Inlet, which would be stupid, corrupt pandering.
    That country was so hungry even the ravens were packin' a lunch.... HUNGRY I tell ya'!!

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    Would you like for all streams off the Parks be open? I would with a 2 fish limit per day using bait and snaging on weekends! I can tell by your use of "stupid, corrupt, pandering" just what you don't know about fishing in the Inlet!

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    Member kenaibow fan's Avatar
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    i don't think we will see the use of treble hooks allowed on the parks ever again with the exception of later run fish (pinks/silvers/chums).
    To be honest I really don't think they present much of an advantage if any anyway so it is fine by me.

    Drifter I agree with you, close the streams down till they know what the issue is, then fix it so there is enough fish left for the streams to recover. I heard the comm guys were willing to help costs with a hatchery some were on the parks…..but if that happens I think it might be the kiss of death for the runs on the Su. And just so people don't take what I said out of context, it is what I heard, doesn't mean it is going to happen.

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    If the State would let Commercial Fisherman put in, and run hatcheries in the valley there would be more fish for every user group. Strong hatchery returns would take alot of pressure off of th KP runs too

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    Quote Originally Posted by MGH55 View Post
    Would you like for all streams off the Parks be open? I would with a 2 fish limit per day using bait and snaging on weekends! I can tell by your use of "stupid, corrupt, pandering" just what you don't know about fishing in the Inlet!
    No, what I would like for...is all commercial fishing be closed for Kings in upper Cook Inlet and Subsistence fishing appropriately limited so the burden of fish passage isn't placed only on sport fishing, after the fish have been taken in the Inlet.

    I favor the expected stream closures, additional enforcement and closing the king fishery if needed to await the cycle or restore the fishery.

    I still have a cabin out there, lived there, fished all the upper western Cook Inlet streams frequently and return yearly. I understand just fine what goes on out there. Thank you for asking.
    That country was so hungry even the ravens were packin' a lunch.... HUNGRY I tell ya'!!

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    Member BlueMoose's Avatar
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    Sorry to say you can only split a pie into so many pieces to share. As with most intense issues facing us today most of us don't have the intestinal fortitude to accomplish what is required in order to fix the overall issue. With current trends al heading in the wrong direction I highly doubt you will see the same chances as in the past concerning the fisheries in question.

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    I fished the parks streams alot last year..... Where there should have been dozens if not hundreds of kings spawning, there were none. Zero. Zip. I fished sheep from the mouth to the crossing way up above the rr bridge in late July for grayling/ trout and didn't even see a king there..... Sad story cuz I used to see hundreds jus 7-8 years ago



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    if we dont regulate the comercial fishing more or eliminate it for now in this area we wont have any kings in a few years. how in the world does closeing sport fishing make any differance at all when the fish never make it to the river. as hunt&fishak said i didnt see a single king the last two years neither and have spent alot of time on the parks streams and there used to be so many you could pick your fish and went home only because your arms were sore. we are going to have to protect every cycle with any means necisary other wise we are going to have the same problem in cycles one or two bad years can come back easy and well but were down to about 5 bad years with 3 being very very bad so i would say there isnt a big change this year even if the fishings open i would not try for kings. i myself would have to say its going to magicaly not be a problem this year or more so that its going to be around 10 to 14 more years before we have another good run as long as they can be left alone in that time.

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    Member kenaibow fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MGH55 View Post
    If the State would let Commercial Fisherman put in, and run hatcheries in the valley there would be more fish for every user group. Strong hatchery returns would take alot of pressure off of th KP runs too
    I am not up to speed on every thing the comm industry does or is a part of, but I don't completely agree with you. I am sure if this was the case the hatcheries would be run like the one in Seward. Not a lot of reds make it past the nets. I know the purpose of the run is cost recovery and all but it would seem to me that a Parks hatchery would be run the same way, and not leave a lot of extra for the sport guys. Not to mention what problems the introduction of hatchery fish would cause. But if there was a surplus of fish to go around then I agree it would take some pressure off the KP runs.

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    They need to close down King fishing for both sport and commercial until they can figure out whats going on and attempt to correct it. Plain and simple, its that or we watch native wild King salmon go extinct in Alaska because we can all see that its happening. We might not know why but if we want them to continue on we need to back off fishing on them, at least till we have stable returns again back up where they should be.

    I remember just 10-12 years ago going to Sheep Creek, Willow, Caswell and the surrounding and you could see the fish boiling in the water when they were in. Fish were every where. Now, its like Hunt&FishAK said, you go down and you cant hardly see one!

    I didnt fish for Kings last year and I wont be this year. Putting strain on a possibly dying fish population for my enjoyment isn't how I was raised. Plenty of other fish to fish for other then Kings. I love to fish and especially for Kings but its irresponsible to do so at this point in time locally in my opinion.

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    Member germe1967's Avatar
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    I'm reading a great deal about commercial fishermen. But from what I read, they were not doing well either. What about the effect of the drag-netting going on in international waters. I heard they are doing more, by wasting salmon caught and by catching too many "feeder fish" like herring, to destroy the King and other runs than all the commercial and sport fishermen combined. Is what I was told far off the mark? If not, what do we do about that?

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    I agree with many here that the Kings need a break. It is the state fish, and it should be given a chance to once again flourish. I actually saw quite a few kings in upper Willow and Deception Creeks last summer during the King closure. I believe had King fishing been open, I would probably not have seen any or very very few of those fish.
    "The North wind is cold no matter what direction it's blowing"

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    Pretty sad that when I was still at Chugiak High School as a teen, Kevin Delaney of ADFG Sportfsih Division used to give presentations about how the Susitna drainage was the most under-utilized king salmon sportfishery in the state. Tons of fish, relatively little effort compared to more popular places like the Kenai.

    And in my short lifetime, it's literally been driven into the ground and now in desperate need of life support.

    Sad....
    "Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." Zane Grey
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    Default cyclical, or a long term trend down?

    Quote Originally Posted by troutslayer View Post
    its going to be around 10 to 14 more years before we have another good run as long as they can be left alone in that time.
    That's a seriously sad thought.

    First of all, the chances of them being left alone for a decade seems to be about nil, and second of all, is there any run data that might suggest whether this is a downturn that won't come back (i.e., its not cyclical) or whether this is just a normal downturn that will of course turn into an upturn soon because that's what salmon do???? I'll admit that I don't know which of these (or another story) might be the case. But I'm concerned it might be the former.

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    Member germe1967's Avatar
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    When last year's situation occured, my first thought was to look back to 2006 and 2007 when weather conditions (flooding in 2006, low water levels in 2007) were present. Those who talked on the news and at the sporting good shops said that these situations would drastically reduce the number of young salmon making it out to sea in the first place. And that, in turn would create terribly low run numbers in 2011-2013. Well, it seems to me that those individuals were probly right. Nevertheless, I agree that at least a 5 year moritorium on Kings both sport and commercial needs to take place. It won't kill the tourism business completely, but it gives the species an opportunity to recover.
    I also want to see our leadership at the state and federal level looking into what can be done to slow or stop the dragnetting in international waters that is depleting the food for these salmon, and according to some sources, killing off thousands of salmon wastefully. I have been told that these boats will simply kill and discard thousands of salmon and other species that are not financially adventagious for them at the time.

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    Member Hunt&FishAK's Avatar
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    The floods of 2012 will also affect all runs of salmon.... 2011 wasn't much better.....that and every year brings new poachers on the creeks..... I heard an incident from a trooper friend he busted the same party of poachers twice in 2 weeks in 2012 with dozens of king salmon piled up on the bank at the mouth of caswel creek.... I know from experience that every open weekend they have for kings, after the midnight closure/check by troopers, the unlawful fishermen hit the banks en masse with snaggers and double hook rigs at the mouth of sheep creek and really make a dent.....I've called the troopers down there more than a couple times.......we need more security and I would like to see them bring in seasonal enforcers like they have on the kenai.... I think it'd really help out



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