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Thread: Open Carry or Closed Carry

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    Member chico99645's Avatar
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    Default Open Carry or Closed Carry

    I just read that Oklahoma today went to Open Carry. Saw a few picks of people in grocery stores with a side arm strapped on their side. Thats pretty awesome. I've seen it in Alaska a few times especially store owners. It's no big deal and I never gave it a second thought. I've also seen people Carrying Concealed and their coat opened, or purse was open and it was in view. OK, no big deal. I personally expect at least 50% of the population in a public environment to be armed in Alaska.

    I personally feel better with Concealed carry. There are pros and cons to both. I guess, if everyone is carrying open it would be like walking into a cop bar and trying to rob it. Pretty stupid move. Then again, if someone is casing a joint and your carrying open, your a target to take out first or overpower by surprise and have your weapon taken away from you to use against you or to continue the crime with. I would rather keep the bad guys guessing on who is carrying and who is not. Not everyone has the same level of expertise to remain alert and vigilent let alone defend them selfs from a quick unexpected rush and protect their weapon. I'd rather have the edge their knowledge if I am armed or not.

    What are your thoughts?

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    Default good advice about conceal-carry

    Quote Originally Posted by chico99645 View Post
    I personally feel better with Concealed carry. There are pros and cons to both. I guess, if everyone is carrying open it would be like walking into a cop bar and trying to rob it. Pretty stupid move. Then again, if someone is casing a joint and your carrying open, your a target to take out first or overpower by surprise and have your weapon taken away from you to use against you or to continue the crime with. I would rather keep the bad guys guessing on who is carrying and who is not. Not everyone has the same level of expertise to remain alert and vigilent let alone defend them selfs from a quick unexpected rush and protect their weapon. I'd rather have the edge their knowledge if I am armed or not.

    What are your thoughts?
    Excellent points and I agree. I believe I first/best heard this good advice during a conceal carry class I took.

    Another point they stressed is to not draw until you'll fire, and make sure you don't hit any good guys, or you can legally go down for the entire crime that the bad guys perpetrated (that you tried to stop).

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    Quote Originally Posted by chico99645 View Post
    I just read that Oklahoma today went to Open Carry. Saw a few picks of people in grocery stores with a side arm strapped on their side. Thats pretty awesome. I've seen it in Alaska a few times especially store owners. It's no big deal and I never gave it a second thought. I've also seen people Carrying Concealed and their coat opened, or purse was open and it was in view. OK, no big deal. I personally expect at least 50% of the population in a public environment to be armed in Alaska.

    I personally feel better with Concealed carry. There are pros and cons to both. I guess, if everyone is carrying open it would be like walking into a cop bar and trying to rob it. Pretty stupid move. Then again, if someone is casing a joint and your carrying open, your a target to take out first or overpower by surprise and have your weapon taken away from you to use against you or to continue the crime with. I would rather keep the bad guys guessing on who is carrying and who is not. Not everyone has the same level of expertise to remain alert and vigilent let alone defend them selfs from a quick unexpected rush and protect their weapon. I'd rather have the edge their knowledge if I am armed or not.

    What are your thoughts?
    Wrong. They'll go somewhere else.
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    I only open carry when I am out in the woods, or at the shooting range because I do a lot of practice drawing from my holster and getting on target.
    I prefer concealed carry when going about my daily business, I've noticed some people have a tendency to get nervous or uncomfortable. People up here are a little more comfortable around firearms, but when I was living in NC it was obvious that open carry "weirded" a lot of people out.

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    Best advise I ever read was to always carry concealed. There are situations were you may never know good guy/bad guy, only that there is an altercation. If you are carrying concealed, only you know that and you make the best choice regarding you and yours. Think with your head, not your weapon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by happytobeinAK View Post
    Think with your head, not your weapon.
    Good advice.
    ...he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods & errors. ~Thomas Jefferson
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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    I pay little attention on whether or not my gun is showing but in winter its probably not. I figure if a person has a worried look its their problem. If a bad guy sees my gun he needs to figure if he wants to move on or who shoots best.If the gun comes out its over simple as that no jestures no talking just shoot and look for next target. If I lose I should have prepared better.
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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    Quote Originally Posted by happytobeinAK View Post
    Best advise I ever read was to always carry concealed. There are situations were you may never know good guy/bad guy, only that there is an altercation. If you are carrying concealed, only you know that and you make the best choice regarding you and yours. Think with your head, not your weapon.
    To me this is very wise advise, no two situations would ever be the same and using ones head to think through it all would be an advantage you may/probably would not have if a gunman ID' you right from the get go. Aslo, some individual that is anti gun or scared could rat you out if they knew you were packin heat.
    When asked what state I live in I say "The State of Confusion", better known as IL....

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    I've always thought concealed was considerably better from both a tactics and a manners standpoint when in town.

    In the field, not so much.
    "I do not deal in hypotheticals. The world, as it is, is vexing enough..." Col. Stonehill, True Grit

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitroman View Post
    Wrong. They'll go somewhere else.
    Maybe, maybe not, depends on their dirve, how prepared they are and how many involved. Like I said which is my opinion, if everyone is packing open and the place is full, mostly likely safe, one person in the place packing open and they have a plan, your a target IMHO. Kinda like an Armed Security Officer at a bank getting robbed, he's the first guy off't. Much better to have both Plain Clothed and Uniformed officers IHMO. Keeps folks guessing unless the bad guy has done his homework and has inside info.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amigo Will View Post
    ........If the gun comes out its over simple as that no jestures no talking just shoot and look for next target. If I lose I should have prepared better.

    I do agree with that. As a civilian we cannot hold a gun on an individual without legal trouble but if the true need arrives to defend ourselves, get it out and get it on. The negotiations are over when the hardware is out!
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    Quote Originally Posted by MCJonas View Post
    I do agree with that. As a civilian we cannot hold a gun on an individual without legal trouble but if the true need arrives to defend ourselves, get it out and get it on. The negotiations are over when the hardware is out!
    Yup, Alaska State Law say if the firearm is pointed in the direction of the individual you have officially/legally engaged in Deadly Force. You better be ready for the consequences whether you pull the trigger or not.


    AS 11.81.900. Definitions.

    (16) "deadly force" means force that the person uses with the intent of causing, or uses under circumstances that the person knows create a substantial risk of causing, death or serious physical injury; "deadly force" includes intentionally discharging or pointing a firearm in the direction of another person or in the direction in which another person is believed to be and intentionally placing another person in fear of imminent serious physical injury by means of a dangerous instrument;
    A gun is like a parachute. If you need one, and don’t have one, you’ll probably never need one again

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    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
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    Default Open Carry or Closed Carry

    Quote Originally Posted by chico99645 View Post
    What are your thoughts?
    You'll never see me packing in public.
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    It is my understanding that when your gun is pulled out, it is ONLY because your life or another victim's life is in immediate life threatening danger. When your weapon is pulled out, it is out to shoot and kill. Not to scare someone off.
    If you are coming out of a store and a pirp jumps into your empty truck and makes to steal it, you cannot pull your gun to get him out; it is not life threatening.
    These are things they taught me when I took a concealed carry class. The concealed carry permit started to appear to be a hindrance to my freedoms, as I learned more about it. The instructor said if you have a bumper sticker on the back of your truck that has something like "Keep honking, I'm reloading", the lawyers will have a hayday with you if you actually do shoot someone in self defense. It appeared that you would be better of without the permit. I am glad AK is an open carry state.
    I do keep my weapon concealed when I am around town, but have given it thought that if more people carried openly, maybe the public that arent normally around guns, would become more used to them.
    Either way, if some crazy person goes nutts and starts shooting (or killing by other means) kids and/or other innocents, I sure hope to be available to stop it. That is why I carry. The public, afterall, are the true "first responders".

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    I don't like to carry open unless I'm in the field as I don't like to draw attention to myself. If the situation arises, I would have the bad guy be surprised at the last split second rather than be forewarned. I have no problem with others carring openly but it's not for me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by roybekks View Post
    It is my understanding that when your gun is pulled out, it is ONLY because your life or another victim's life is in immediate life threatening danger. When your weapon is pulled out, it is out to shoot and kill. Not to scare someone off.
    If you are coming out of a store and a pirp jumps into your empty truck and makes to steal it, you cannot pull your gun to get him out; it is not life threatening.....
    DISCLAIMER: Look up the current Alaska Law for yourself. Don't trust what is posted on an internet forum!

    Note section (b) there is a duty to retreat. HB 80 will change that if it passes this year. It will give you the right to defend yourself anywhere you are legally allowed to be. Here's a note on that. I can't find any other info if the status has changed.


    Lastly, House Bill 80, critical self-defense legislation, passed in the state House at the end of the 2011 legislative session, and was reported by the state Senate Judiciary Committee on March 23, 2012. Due to divisive politics, this session ended with HB 80 languishing in the Senate Finance Committee. Introduced by state Representative Mark Neuman (R-15), HB 80 would provide that a law-abiding person, who is justified in using deadly force in self-defense, has “no duty-to-retreat” from an attack if the person is in any place that that person has a legal right to be.The Senate has a bipartisan “majority” coalition comprised of six Republicans and ten Democrats. This “majority” organization is a result of the Senate being split with ten Republicans and ten Democrats. In order for HB 80 to get scheduled for a vote on the Senate floor, by “majority” rules, it needed eleven committed votes from the “majority” coalition.On Friday, April 13, HB 80 had twelve Senate cross-sponsors, a clear majority of the total body, but only eight were confirmed “majority” votes (all six Republicans and two Democrats). It became apparent that we would be unable to convince three more Democrats to sign on in support of HB 80. One additional Democrat did sign on at the eleventh hour, when the bill was essentially dead, so we ended up short two “majority” Democrats. We will redouble our efforts on this important self-defense legislation when the new legislature convenes in 2013.
    Current Alaska law. See Disclaimer above.
    AS 11.81.335 – 11.81.350 Sec. 11.81.335. Justification: Use of ...


    AS 11.81.335 – 11.81.350
    Sec. 11.81.335. Justification: Use of deadly force in defense of self.
    (a) Except as provided in (b) of this section, a person who is justified in using nondeadly force in self-defense under AS 11.81.330 may use deadly force in self-defense upon another person when and to the extent the person reasonably believes the use of deadly force is necessary for self-defense against
    (1) death;
    (2) serious physical injury;
    (3) kidnapping, except for what is described as custodial interference in the first degree in AS 11.41.320 ;
    (4) sexual assault in the first degree;
    (5) sexual assault in the second degree;
    (6) sexual abuse of a minor in the first degree; or
    (7) robbery in any degree.
    (b) A person may not use deadly force under this section if the person knows that, with complete personal safety and with complete safety as to others being defended, the person can avoid the necessity of using deadly force by leaving the area of the encounter, except there is no duty to leave the area if the person is
    (1) on premises
    (A) that the person owns or leases;
    (B) where the person resides, temporarily or permanently; or
    (C) as a guest or express or implied agent of the owner, lessor, or resident;
    (2) a peace officer acting within the scope and authority of the officer's employment or a person assisting a peace officer under AS 11.81.380;
    (3) in a building where the person works in the ordinary course of the person's employment; or
    (4) protecting a child or a member of the person's household.
    Sec. 11.81.340. Justification: Use of force in defense of a third person.
    A person is justified in using force upon another when and to the extent the person reasonably believes it is necessary to defend a third person when, under the circumstances as the person claiming defense of another reasonably believes them to be, the third person would be justified under AS 11.81.330 or 11.81.335 in using that degree of force for self-defense.
    Sec. 11.81.350. Justification: Use of force in defense of property and premises.
    (a) A person may use nondeadly force upon another when and to the extent the person reasonably believes it is necessary to terminate what the person reasonably believes to be the commission or attempted commission by the other of an unlawful taking or damaging of property or services.
    (b) A person may use deadly force upon another when and to the extent the person reasonably believes it necessary to terminate what the person reasonably believes to be the commission or attempted commission of arson upon a dwelling or occupied building.
    (c) A person in possession or control of any premises, or a guest or an express or implied agent of that person, may use
    (1) nondeadly force upon another when and to the extent the person reasonably believes it is necessary to terminate what the person reasonably believes to be the commission or attempted commission by the other of criminal trespass in any degree upon the premises;
    (2) deadly force upon another when and to the extent the person reasonably believes it is necessary to terminate what the person reasonably believes to be a burglary in any degree occurring in an occupied dwelling or building.
    (d) [Repealed, Sec. 7 ch 68 SLA 2006].
    (e) A person
    (1) in a vehicle, or forcibly removed from a vehicle, may use deadly force upon another when and to the extent the person reasonably believes it is necessary to terminate what the person reasonably believes to be a carjacking of that vehicle at or about the time the vehicle is carjacked;
    (2) outside of a vehicle may use deadly force upon another when and to the extent the person reasonably believes it is necessary to terminate what the person reasonably believes to be the theft of that vehicle when another person, other than the perceived offender, is inside of the vehicle; this paragraph does not apply to a person outside of a vehicle who is involved in a dispute with a person inside of the vehicle who is a household member of that person; in this paragraph, "household member" has the meaning given in AS 18.66.990 .
    (f) A person justified in using force under this section does not have a duty to leave or attempt to leave the area of the encounter before using force.
    (g) In (e) of this section,
    (1) "carjacking" means a robbery involving the taking or attempted taking of a vehicle from a person in possession of the vehicle;
    (2) "vehicle" means a "motor vehicle" as defined in AS 28.40.100 , an aircraft, or a watercraft.
    A gun is like a parachute. If you need one, and don’t have one, you’ll probably never need one again

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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    In the time it takes for your brain to say drop the gun and you speak it you are to late to relize he didn't drop it and you now have pain. If a bad guy has a gun pointed at you and you are well praticed you can shoot him before his brain can process that you are drawing your gun and send the message to his finger to pull the trigger. Its all how you prepare and should become an all most automatic reflex like bringing you hand towards your face when you sneeze.
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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    That works as long as you don't combine those two reflexes into one.
    Last edited by FamilyMan; 01-16-2013 at 02:14. Reason: oops, forgot the smiley: :-)

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    I'm pretty sure the entire internet in the entire history of open carry has found three incidents or less where an open carrier was targeted for their weapon.

    If you're going to open carry you need a decent retention holster and maybe think about some retention training but that's about it.

    Most perps are not looking to take down a specific person or place. They are looking to take down an easy soft target. If they initially decided to hold up the Stop & Rob Convenience store, they roll in and see an armed person, they're probably just going to change plans and find an easier target. The holdup guys are not going to plan and execute a squad-level fire & maneuver attack on the stop and rob, neutralizing armed guards first.

    This even works against more committed perps/terrorists. Did Major Hassan shoot up the arms room at Ft Hood or the gate? Or did he find a nice soft target with no armed soldiers present? Even terrorists will select targets where they know their odds of success are high because there are no visible defenses/security presence.

    About the only time deterrence doesn't work is if the attacker is for some reason committed to a specific target. For example, if you have a stalker, they will probably not decide to go stalk someone else if your new significant other open carries (they might -- but I wouldn't count on it). The stalker wants YOU. Likewise, if the perp is on drugs and unable to observe/process the deterrent, etc then the deterrent may not work either.

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    Concealed carry. Why let someone that might do you harm know you are armed until it is to late?
    NRA Life Member since 1974

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