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Thread: looking for ideas on a PA12

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    Member algonquin's Avatar
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    Default looking for ideas on a PA12

    Hi Guys just got a PA12 for Christmas and it needs a bit of fix'en. While its apart any ideas to what mods to do and where to find the infro on them? Its a O-235, 100hp stock plane, no flaps. both wings need tips and one aft spar and the frame need a bit od straighting. Thanks tom

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    Member polardds's Avatar
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    How nice was Santa too you? How much do you want to spend on the project? Making all the PA-18 mods makes them quite a performer.

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    Are you going to leave it a 100hp? Since you are going to have the wings open. I would do the flaps...

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    Member algonquin's Avatar
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    I plan on doing all the labor myself so that will help for cost. I'm looking at doing all the frame reinforcements for the high gross , PA 18 gear, would a PA 22 tail work as well as the PA18 as they are both counter balanced? The wing tip mod from X-winds looks good, but there are a bunch of diferent ones. I will put VG's on, they saved us on a forced landing in a Pacer. Seems everything I look at has three or four choice's. The engine is the big money and I can't decide yet and plan on doing everything but the engine right now. The cessna's don't have the option like the Pipers. Buy the way anybody looking for a nice 56' 180? Mom said I should concider reducing the fleet a bit.

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    Hey Tom,
    You are getting quite the fleet. Im jealous
    Charlie Center (crosswind stol) is a great resource for anything -12. You can lean on him in a pinch.

    The 18 tail is bigger and from guys that have flown all, that seems to be the ticket. I flew a 12 that had charlie's up gross, ext wing/flap/tips, 18 gear/tail and it was really a great airplane. I really liked it. Those big flaps are nice.
    IMO, for an airplane with that much capacity inside there is really no substitute for horsepower. If a guy loads that up one day on floats/skis, the 180hp will be appreciated. That is up for much debate though.

    IF it were me and I wanted to build the perfect 12 it'd be a crosswinds 180/wings/gross, cub tail/gear.

    Either way, congrats on the new rig and have fun. When are you back? Comin down this summer.

    KA

    pm sent

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    Member polardds's Avatar
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    you will not regret increasing your hp. Whether it be a 150 or 160 or 180 hp. Go for the extended flaps. The upgross is good. You can have both a top and bottom extended baggage but that can be too easy to overfill. Which door do you have? The one piece seaplane door is nice. PA-12's can get heavy so be careful how much you do. There is a thread currently on Supercub.org touching on the PA-18 or PA-22 tail feathers for a 12. Your fuel system is another thing all together. Get rid of it if it is stock. I even liked having 30g wing tanks. It is getting harder and harder to find places to refuel up here.

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    If you're interested in an 0-290 cheap, I recently pulled one out of your old Pacer for an 0-320 upgrade.
    OE

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    Member algonquin's Avatar
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    Thanks guys, I'm thinking I'll go see Charlie Center like you say. I like the idea of useing the PA18 stuff, easy to find and proven. The gas situation down by us in Seldovia is also not to good, big tanks will be going in.
    I'll be back fairly soon, I've had enough of everything down here but the Grand Kids, don't think I'd ever leave home again if they would move up. Looking forward to a fishing trip Kevin, the new boat will be ready this spring.
    AKOD, how is old Eddie, as we called him, PM me about the engine, I'm interested. I'm glad you have been enjoying the plane, it never let me down, we bonded when we got caught in a snow storm between the Barren Islands and Kodiac ,LOL. When I got into Kodiac I felt like I had done a trans-Pacific crossing.

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    I did a ground-up restoration including lots of Supercub style mods of a PA12 a few years ago. Basically? You'll spend lots of money to build a plane that will be worth about 30% less than your costs at best. You can build a good performer but it'll never equal the performance of a Supercub. Truth is you can buy the plane you want for less money than you can build it. Lots less. But if you're determined? As for power? I'd use Charly for the short mount 160hp or Univair for the short mount 180hp mods. With the 160hp option you'll be approved with an 8246 Borer but can get a deviation for the more typically popular 8242. Choose 180hp and your prop options are very limited. Charly offers a 180hp mod but it includes his custom cowl and air box. Univair's uses a modified Cub cowl like Charly's 160 short mount does. Big tanks? If you choose Atlee's 31 gallon tanks you can get by with flaps but kiss all other wing mods goodbye. Same with the gross weight mod. Atlee's tanks aren't applicable to wing mods or gross increase mods. Dakota Cub's 24 gallon tanks will be your best bet. Then shop for Cub gear, cub seat, cub tail, etc... Cha Ching. My as well go all the way and do Ron Sullivan's cub controls and drop the floor. Get a field approval to reverse the dogleg and extend the baggage. But your airframe is just a few years shy of 70 years old so expect lots of welding and frustration. Might just buy a new modified airframe from Univair. Cha Ching. And maybe add new Dakota Cub wings. Cha Ching. If you're careful you'll get your weight into the low 1200s. You'll spend in the low $100k range. Your plane will be worth less than your receipts, and that won't account for your labor. Good times. I loved that plane. And like every other guy I've ever talked to that's done a -12? I'll never even consider doing another. You'd be miles ahead if you can sneak your project into the E-AB category but technically it isn't legal to do so. My next Cub will definitely be an experimental.

    Have fun planning. As you arrive at your decision to jump into the project take your money budget after you've included everything you can imagine and double it. Figure your labor hours budget and triple it. And about that? I'm dead serious. Been there.

  10. #10
    Member Float Pilot's Avatar
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    I had a flapless PA-12 with a 135 horse many moons ago. It was roomy alright, and fairly fast for a Cub... However, she was not a real short take-off or landing queen. In fact my flap-less PA-11 90 horse gets off the ground faster and lands shorter.
    For bush bashing It needed...
    Horse Power
    Flaps
    Wing AOI changed to the same as a PA-18
    PA-18 tail feathers.

    If I ever buy another PA-12 that had the original wings, I would be tempted to make it a shopping trip cruiser
    .
    A 0-290, 0-290D2 or 0-320 with a cruise prop.
    Straight cruise AOI wings without droop tips.
    PA-20 Balanced Tail feathers for speed
    Only go as large as 850s for tires with Cleveland's
    Scott 3200 tail wheel.

    I had a J5-A (0-290 125 horse) for a few years that was set up sorta like that and it would do 105 mph with a cruise prop and only burned 6 gallons an hour when leaned back...
    Floatplane,Tailwheel and Firearms Instructor- Dragonfly Aero
    Experimental Hand-Loader, NRA Life Member
    http://site.dragonflyaero.com

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    Member algonquin's Avatar
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    Thanks guys, this gets me thinking, looks like this will be fun planning. This is going to be my way of avoiding the Jimmy Buffet "I shot six holes in my freezer" winter cabin fever thing. Sometimes I think it would be best to just put it together stock and just fly it for sight seeing and fun. With the 100 hp its a 4.5 gals /hr puttering around plane. I guess lots depends on how much $$ the wife kicks loose for me to play with.

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