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Thread: Barrel Heating,...How do you deal with it ?

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    Member kodiakrain's Avatar
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    Default Barrel Heating,...How do you deal with it ?

    So, I'm at the range for the first time in a long Rainy Coastal Winter Stretch,....

    Can't restrain myself, got to get rid of some loads,...so as I get into the third set of twenty
    I'm having to wait an awful lot for the barrel to cool quite a bit,...
    and you know how that goes,....waiting less and less each time,...wondering how it is affecting my results on the paper

    So, what methods, tactics do you guys use to wait,...between sets ??

    How long, how many rounds,... how Hot can the barrel be before it has a negative effect on your grouping ??

    I've heard all kinds of things,..."as long as it not too hot to touch,"....stuff like that
    but I'm wondering if you have a way of thinking,....like no more than 6 or 10 rounds without a long wait to cool,...

    I did have a .22 rifle along,...but got all focused on results I needed to get into more reloading,...so I didn't really want to spend a bunch of time plinking
    wanted to get through a bunch of loads with this one rifle,...so, can you relate ??

    (and yeah, i've searched around, not much detail on the subject in the archives here) Any Help Appreciated
    is a Sako 85, Stainless Barrel, .270wsm,...was using up H4831sc and RL-17 loads
    just noting that as it seems the RL-17 may actually heat up faster than the 4831sc loads,....??
    and No, I'm not Maxing anything out,...upper 1/3 of the Min to Max range tho all day
    Ten Hours in that little raft off the AK peninsula, blowin' NW 60, in November.... "the Power of Life and Death is in the Tongue," and Yes, God is Good !

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    Just take a trip up to Fairbanks to shoot! You shouldn't have any heating issues with your barrel there!

    Good Luck!
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    Member GD Yankee's Avatar
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    Yup, outside of switching guns, go to the range when it's 5 degrees outside. That works.

    Particularly a high capacity case like a 270 WSM, the barrel is going to heat up very quickly.

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    Kinda depends on the gun, and is good to know probably.

    For instance. My first 300 RUM, after 20 shots it was all the way fouled and would then heat up a lot after my first shot with a cold barrel. The point of impact was different after 20 shots too. Other wise, 3 shots and then cool for 10 minutes or more.

    My 375 ruger I can shoot 2 times and the point of impact is a little different to the left maybe 1/2 an inch. Probably means I need to bed the action or float the barrel better, but it is plenty accurate for what I want it to do. Warm to the touch after 4 shots. So, I shoot it twice when I am working up a load. Other wise 3-4 four shots then cool.

    My 35 whelen in a remington 750 auto loader could care less how hot the barrel is. The accuracy is about the same, 1.5-2 inches after the first or 10th shot. I try not to cook it though and limit the shooting to one magazine usually.

    The rifles that matter, I don't shoot more than 4 times and sometimes twice, and let it cool over 10 minutes or more if it is "hot" outside. Seems to work for me.

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    Member kodiakrain's Avatar
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    Thanks Daved, that's interesting stuff

    you other guys,....shooting at 5F, or -52F, isn't going to happen for me,...heh heh Yikes,
    what do you guys do in summer,...I hear it hits 80F,...up there,... ??

    What I wonder is, how do the guys in Arizona ever get anything done,...??

    back to the shots between breaks,...I've been shooting 2, 3-shot groups, then waiting,...
    for it to feel cool or slightly warm to the touch, and
    for some reason I feel running some solvent through every 9 shots helps out quite a bit
    as well as keeping the copper fouling down
    Run a solvent patch through, then walk away, let it soak, to take a look at targets or run a few .22 mags downrange
    then dry it out,...is usually ready to go cool,
    tho I do wonder how the clean barrel vs. lightly fouled barrel affects everything

    this has worked well at the average 30-50F temps we shoot at here nearly all year round
    and if I bring a couple rifles, I'll limit myself to no more than 40 rounds per rifle,
    for both fouling and cooling reasons

    Seems when I get into more than 40 rounds, that the residual heat is hard to lose without going for a walk between sets

    I am probably over thinking it all, as this Sako doesn't seem to go wild whether Hot, or somewhat fouled, but I am really curious
    what the long hauler guys do, who've been overthinkin' it for twenty years or so

    Oh well, any other plans that work, would be appreciated,...
    Ten Hours in that little raft off the AK peninsula, blowin' NW 60, in November.... "the Power of Life and Death is in the Tongue," and Yes, God is Good !

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    Member hoose35's Avatar
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    I can get pretty impatient at times, so the best thing for me is to bring a few guns at the same time. Shoot 3-4 shot groups with each one. Look at targets, do it over again. I haven't had a barrel on any of my guns too hot to touch, I would say I have never even had them hot, just warm.

    Side note: How were your groups with the H4831sc compared to the RL-17? I recently got into reloading and my groups from the H4831sc weren't near as good as my groups from IMR 4831. Also shooting a .270wsm, stainless, browning abolt
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    If these loads are not what I wanted, I would pull the bullets and reuse the powder instead of just firing them.

    When I work loads, what I do to prevent a hot barrel is fire 3 rounds and then walk down to the target and record the results then walk back. Most often I work more than one rifle at a time and will switch to the other rifle and do the same. By the time I get to the first rifle the barrel has cooled. I find the key is to not let it get that hot in the first place, because then it takes much long to cool.

    I also bring some coffee and a snack and will take a break and a snack to pass time or bring a book to read, and of course I always bring the old Remington Nylon 66 22LR to plink with just for kicks.

    While I wait I open the action and place the rifle against the bench in an upright position, this allows the hot air to rise and suck cool air into the open action.

    I have seen guys that shoot prairie dogs use a funnel and pour water down the barrel then run a couple patches through and keep shooting, they all swear that it works. I have never tried it, but saw it done over and over.

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    I am about to build a barrel cooler, I will take an ordinary ice chest, cut a 4" hole in one end and insert a piece of 4" PVC or ABS then cap the end I inserted at a slightly downward angle - you can fill the chest with ice, snow, water and when the hot rifle is gently set in the pipe it will aid cooling speed - There was a guy somewhere that came up with a recirculating cool water set-up that ran through the action, down the barrel and back around but it seemed too involved to me, he was selling it to prairie dog shooters - If your barrel is incomfortable to hold your hand on you will greatly excaserbate (sp) throat erosion to continue shooting - multiple rifles for bench sessions is certainly a good idea too !

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    when working up loads i usually shoot individual shots over the chrony for velocity with maybe three cartridges of each powder charge working up progressively until i get pressure signs or reach my target velocity. i do this shooting pretty darn fast and with no regard for accuracy... dont even use a target. that said, i will let barrels get pretty darn hot... hotter than you can touch, but remember that you would need some REALLY smoking temps to effect barrel steal! also, i dont shoot any really overbore cartidges, so i am not worried about throught errosion... probably wouldent treat a 25 Weatherby or 7mm STW like that, but for say 308, 270 and lever gun rounds i dont worry too much..
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    One shot, wait a minute, then another. And so on for three shots. Then 10 minutes.

    There is a product you can buy, and you can easily make, that has a rubber fitting that slips into the chamber and blows cold outside air via a little van down the bore of the rifle. A 12v computer fan would work perfectly, just make a housing it can fit in and reduce the air out to blow into the rifle. Hook this up to your battery of your vehicle or a little 12v snowmachine/motorcycle/ATV battery. Some of those computer fans will move a lot of air so even with the reducer you make, it will still put out enough air to make a difference. You could also set it up to draw air through the barrel rather than force air through it.

    Here is a 12v 102CFM fan that uses .5 amp, and only 6 Watts and is 4.5 inches square. There ya go. Let your imagination take over.
    http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.as...tname=electric
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitroman View Post
    One shot, wait a minute, then another. And so on for three shots. Then 10 minutes.

    There is a product you can buy, and you can easily make, that has a rubber fitting that slips into the chamber and blows cold outside air via a little van down the bore of the rifle. A 12v computer fan would work perfectly, just make a housing it can fit in and reduce the air out to blow into the rifle. Hook this up to your battery of your vehicle or a little 12v snowmachine/motorcycle/ATV battery. Some of those computer fans will move a lot of air so even with the reducer you make, it will still put out enough air to make a difference.
    I use one of these to blow up my sleeping pad, slip it onto the end of the barrel and open the action.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stid2677 View Post
    I use one of these to blow up my sleeping pad, slip it onto the end of the barrel and open the action.

    http://www.camp-tek.com/index.html
    That would work too!!
    Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre minds. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Albert Einstein

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    I too have a Remington Nylon 66 that my dad bought new when I was in the 5th grade. (many years ago) He paid $46 dollars for it. It still shoots great and I have never had a problem with it. It's amazing what they ask for one now if you can find one. Good memories!

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    Quote Originally Posted by 450grandpa View Post
    I too have a Remington Nylon 66 that my dad bought new when I was in the 5th grade. (many years ago) He paid $46 dollars for it. It still shoots great and I have never had a problem with it. It's amazing what they ask for one now if you can find one. Good memories!
    Mine is over 30 years old and still going strong. I once saw a advertisement for the Nylon 66 that showed a shooter standing by a huge stack of wood blocks that he had shot one round each into. The Ad stated that it was one million blocks.

    Steve

    My mistake it was 100K

    A Nylon 66 was used by a Remington professional shooter Tom Frye to hit, in the air, 100,004 hand thrown wooden blocks (about 2" square, if I remember correctly) out of a total of 100,010 thrown. This was (and probably still is) the world record for breaking wooden blocks, and was used in Remington advertising copy to illustrate the reliability of the Nylon 66.
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    About 15-20 years ago there were numerous articles in different magazines about using some sort of compressed gas and squirting it through a hot barrel to cool it down. Not sure about what gas it was but everyone loved the idea.

    I just take a couple of different rifles and some revolvers. When one is hot I shoot the others.

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    Member kodiakrain's Avatar
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    Sounds like I might be shooting a bit fast then,...
    I get at least a minute between shots for the first three,...
    as I look at target thru the spotting scope, and record velocity, etc. with the action open
    then maybe several minutes before the next set of three, during which the barrel only becomes slightly warm,

    then go down to the target, or do a minor cleaning regimen before the next two sets of three

    This works fine, and taking a major break to walk down to the target, (if the range is lonely that day anyway)
    every time I clean,....like every 9 rds or so, and a major cup of coffee type break after 20
    (20 being the number that I use for any one bullet/powder type loading experiment)

    It's when I try to keep shooting, just the one rifle, for over two boxes of twenty, even including the waiting,... that it seems to hold the heat longer

    Thanks for the, "standing the barrel up for heat rising out," idea,....and the ice cooler, the mini fan,...that's really good

    So, this might be another thread idea,...but what do you guys think of my cleaning every 6-9rds,...to keep copper fouling from affecting accuracy and it seems to get a jump on later copper cleaning, if I keep on it,...especially when the barrel is warm

    is that something any of you do out there,...seems to me to be better than letting it accumulate for twenty to forty rounds
    would seriously affect things by the time you were nearing the last shots of a forty shot set right?

    That has always messed with my head, the idea, that I want to reproduce a scenario where I have a clean cold barrel out hunting,
    having run one round through to foul the barrel, but it certainly is totally cold,...when I'm sighting in on an animal

    I haven't really seen a lot of difference in that first shot out of a clean barrel, versus the next couple,....(maybe a little)
    so, it seems the thing to do when working for reloading results at the range
    Ten Hours in that little raft off the AK peninsula, blowin' NW 60, in November.... "the Power of Life and Death is in the Tongue," and Yes, God is Good !

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    Member kodiakrain's Avatar
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    Default RL-17 makes the 150 grain bullets workable in this case

    Quote Originally Posted by hoose35 View Post
    Side note: How were your groups with the H4831sc compared to the RL-17? I recently got into reloading and my groups from the H4831sc weren't near as good as my groups from IMR 4831. Also shooting a .270wsm, stainless, browning abolt
    Hoose, here's some numbers, working on Hornady 150gr Interlock SST's at 100yards
    with my .270wsm, stainless 22.5 in. barrel, and using Fed 215's, and all at 2.93col (which is my max magazine length)

    I was doing okay with the H4831sc, a powder that has always worked well, for other bullets in this rifle...
    three shot groups:
    59gr - .75" group, 2507fps average (18fps variance)
    59.5gr - 1.03", 2567fps avg. (4 fps var.)
    60gr - .71" 2612 fps avg. (14 var.)
    60.5 gr - 1.02" 2633 fps avg. (35 var.)

    this has usually been about the best accuracy I can get out of this rifle with the 150 gr bullets of all types,....75-1.00 inch groups
    tho it's considerably better with 90gr, 110gr, or 130grain bullets,...for some reason the 140, 150's won't close up better

    Then with RL-17
    the Velocity was noticeably better,....everything else the same, bullet, Col,...tho I used CCI 250 primers
    the sweet spot was around here:

    58gr - .72", 2782fps avg. (18 variance)
    58.5gr - .45", 2865fps avg. (28 var.)
    59gr - .46", 2891 fps avg. (15 var.)

    then at 59.5, I had Chrony read problems, and the groups started scattering out to 1.8"
    (the Variance number is the spread from top velocity to slowest in that group)

    Interesting increase in Velocity,...and the accuracy, pretty noticeable also,...
    I have never achieved Book Velocities with this rifle, no matter what I do,...
    a mystery I've never figured out,....not worth, "pushing the book Max," loading in my opinion
    but this looks like a killer combination, for my rifle anyway

    59grains RL-17,....for a 1/2 inch and 2900 fps

    then last, I had some 150 Nosler Partitions, loaded in Federal Brass, already had this load dialed so I just wanted to blast these 5 shot groups down range,....looking for confirmation of what I had found with former work on 3-shot sets

    using Fed 215's and 2.90 col and H4831sc

    59.7gr - 2427fps and the best 3 of the 5,..- .70",...all five, spread out to 3"

    60gr - 2465fps,....best 3 - .33",....all five 1.15"

    60.5 - 2560fps, best 3 - .70" ,...all five 1.37"

    61gr (max) - 2605fps, best 3 - .84",....all five 1.7"

    Those five shot groups were fired last, and is where I was having a hard time with patience for cooling
    noticeable the pushing five shots, spread it out quite a bit,
    tho doing that best 3 of the 5, is just for encouragement when I'm shooting poorly,...(Grin)
    it's not really like the first 3, were tight like that, then the next two flew off,...it's a measuring thing afterward

    So Far tho,....RL-17 has been a pretty impressive powder for this WSM,...always jacks the velocity

    but for me, if it's accuracy most important,... IMR4350, and H4831sc have been the best,...so far
    haven't tried many, but those that did compare well for me, were IMR7828ssc, RL-15, RL-19, RL-22
    Ten Hours in that little raft off the AK peninsula, blowin' NW 60, in November.... "the Power of Life and Death is in the Tongue," and Yes, God is Good !

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    I like the blowing air with a little fan idea, much less cumbersome - I'd be cautious of compressed "gas" as it may present too cold for a hot barrel but compressed air would work great I would think

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    I'm no expert on this, nor am I a reloader, plinker, passionate shooter or tinkerer. I am a hunter, who wants to know two things: 1) what is my rifle / load capable of? This is, in simple terms, little more than mathematics. 2) what are my capabilities with that rifle / load combination? It's one thing to know what the firearm can do, but another thing entirely to factor in all the variable human elements.

    My process is exactly the same every time:

    1. Fire the round.

    2. Open the bolt.

    3. Pick up the brass.

    4. Use the spotting scope to check my impact on the target.

    5. Mark the point of impact on the target on the shooting bench (no need to walk downrange except to post a clean target).

    6. Close the bolt on a fresh round and repeat.

    I wait ten minutes from the time I open the bolt to extract the spent brass, until I close it on the next round. Every time.

    I disregard the first round, if it was fired from a cleaned, oiled bore, because the point of impact of that round can be different from those fired from a fouled bore..

    My reasoning is this: I am zeroing my rifle, or practicing my shooting posture. Either way, I am preparing for hunting. Since my first shot will always be out of a cold barrel, I want to replicate those conditions. As to impatience, do I plan to be impatient when I am shooting an animal? Do I plan to shoot an animal with a hot bore? No.

    That said, there is sometimes a need for a follow-up shot, or perhaps the rare third shot. Once your rifle is zeroed, you can practice some quick follow up shooting, out of a warm bore. But remember that those rounds can wander a bit, because of temperature variations. If the barrel is hot, you cannot, with the degree of certainty required for shooting game, know precisely where that bullet will impact. The minor variations inherent in a human pulling the trigger in field conditions, regardless of how proficient they are, are greatly enhanced at longer yard ages too. So you get as close as possible, to reduce the risk, and pass up shots you are not 100% sure of.

    I am shooting primarily a.375, some .458 Win. Mag, and some 7mm Rem. mag. I suppose you could shorten the cooling off period with lighter calibers, but if it were me, I'd probably do it the same way.

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    KR,

    Here's a thread I started a little over a year ago to show how I was using a battery operated fan that doubles for blowing up air mattresses. The fan is a pretty common item, and it works exceptionally well. I would recommend using a smooth wall tube vise the ribbed one that is seen in the pictures.

    http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/...cool?highlight=

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