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Thread: More dipnetters than ever on the Kenai

  1. #1
    Member willphish4food's Avatar
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    Default More dipnetters than ever on the Kenai

    New article posted in ADN about crowded conditions on the Kenai and what the poor city can do about it. In the article, it stated the city lost "over $8900" from dipnetters. The fees collected did not cover the costs to clean the beaches, man the pay booths, dump dumpsters and toilets, etc. Are you kidding me? The city also charges a sales tax. I'm sure the tax revenue from just these dipnetters was in the neighborhood of half a million dollars. Not to mention the jobs created directly in the city by servicing the dipnetters. The contractors paid by the city to work on the beach. All that, and the parks dept "lost" $8900. I bet the city loses a heck of a lot more on other departments, without nearly as much trickle down benefit as that provided by dipnetting.

    Carcasses littering the beach was listed as an aggravation. Oh, cry me a river. If its a problem, find a creative solution, like public cleaning stations where carcasses get hauled out and dumped, or used as fertilizer. How about a fish meal plant on the Kenai? Use waste from sport caught, dipnetted, and cannery fish to sponsor a new industry.

    Residents supposedly complained about litter and waste; when we camped at the beach at the mouth of the Kenai, it cost $50 for 12 hours, and unless you camped at the very end of the beach in the tent city, there wasn't an outhouse within a mile, nor a dumpster. Access to the beach was very loose sand that was burying 4 wheel drives. It seemed there could have been a lot more that the city did with its half a million in direct parking revenue than what it was doing.

    State campgrounds charge $10 to camp, (24 hours) $5 to park (12 hours) in most of the state. At $35 to camp, $15 to park, with a 12 hour limit on either, the city is charging 3 to 3.5 times as much as the state, and providing fewer, shoddier services. I feel very little sympathy for them.

  2. #2
    Member thewhop2000's Avatar
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    I posted almost a two page reply but it just somehow got lost on this thread...Black heliocopters?, bottom line; The city makes money every year on dipnetting but forwards funds every year for more toys into the future. I gaurantee those toys are not just used for the dipnetting fishery. Boats, six wheelers, pick-ups to haul same and conexs to store same. Three weeks worth of use and the city can claim poor the next year too. If they showed a lot of profit, it would just be that much harder to do away with same. Who is their major political gain? Go figure.

    I did a census count verses household dipnetting from Kenai permits. In 2010, 80 Percent of Kenai residents households family permits dipnetted the Kenai or Kasilof. 79 percent of Soldotna resident households dipped those two also. It is just not us carpetbaggers coming from Anchorage or Wasiklla or even Barrow
    If a dipnetter dips a fish and there is no one around to see/hear it, Did he really dip?

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    Member thewhop2000's Avatar
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    Just like Hollywood moguls do... they through a party for all the bigwigs and then charge it against the next film coming out as expenses.... Down thet road they get sued by the actors and always lose. Maybe the city and state need to be sues too, just for accountability
    If a dipnetter dips a fish and there is no one around to see/hear it, Did he really dip?

  4. #4
    Member Milo's Avatar
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    Oh my God, the city is going broke.... or maybe not.

    http://www.ci.kenai.ak.us/finance/cafr2012.pdf
    http://www.ci.kenai.ak.us/finance/FY2013%20BUDGET.pdf


    You can hate dipnetting if you want but if you look at the numbers, $8,900 is not much of an arguement.
    Death is like an old whore in a bar--I'll buy her a drink but I won't go upstairs with her.

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    Member JOAT's Avatar
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    You should see what the people of Kenai are saying (and have been saying) about this fishery. According to the Clarion, the "residents of Kenai" agree that dipnetting must go... though I'm not so sure that they asked all of us.

    http://peninsulaclarion.com/news/201...sed-by-council
    Winter is Coming...

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    Member thewhop2000's Avatar
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    Talking

    As stated it's a pointed coin. If the city shows too much profit, how can they argue to the masses that it is a bad thing. How can they go to the state and beg for even more grant money? They couldn't. The city fathers have testified in front of the BOF what and how great commercial fishing is for them, not a word about dipping. They know who runs the purse strings down there and how to get re-elected. As I stated in an earlier post, over 80 percent of Kenai area residents dipnet. A funny situation happened in one of the sub-committee meeting on dipnetting at the last BOF meeting. The Member testifying was on the board of the drifters association and was representing them during that committee, since Dr. Maw was in another committee and could not attend. A question came up on some proposal before the board and so a Board member picked this guy out of the crowd to get his take on the effect this proposal would have. He gave a half smile and then said, I couldn't tell you... during those times I was too busy dipnetting out of my own boat on the Kenai. We all laughed cause we all benefit. It's all a big political game.
    I keep taking some people in the legislature out dipping every year so they can see for themselves we need more funds and room to expand. They see it but are not happy with the way fish and Game handles their funds which they do have, never mind getting more
    If a dipnetter dips a fish and there is no one around to see/hear it, Did he really dip?

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by thewhop2000 View Post
    As stated it's a pointed coin. If the city shows too much profit, how can they argue to the masses that it is a bad thing. How can they go to the state and beg for even more grant money? They couldn't. The city fathers have testified in front of the BOF what and how great commercial fishing is for them, not a word about dipping. They know who runs the purse strings down there and how to get re-elected. As I stated in an earlier post, over 80 percent of Kenai area residents dipnet. A funny situation happened in one of the sub-committee meeting on dipnetting at the last BOF meeting. The Member testifying was on the board of the drifters association and was representing them during that committee, since Dr. Maw was in another committee and could not attend. A question came up on some proposal before the board and so a Board member picked this guy out of the crowd to get his take on the effect this proposal would have. He gave a half smile and then said, I couldn't tell you... during those times I was too busy dipnetting out of my own boat on the Kenai. We all laughed cause we all benefit. It's all a big political game.
    I keep taking some people in the legislature out dipping every year so they can see for themselves we need more funds and room to expand. They see it but are not happy with the way fish and Game handles their funds which they do have, never mind getting more
    Over 80% of kenai area residents dipnet you say, yet you also state the city fathers support commercial fishing in order to get reelected. Hmmmm Need some time to digest that one.

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    Member JOAT's Avatar
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    Why? There's more than enough room in Kenai and on The Kenai for sport and commercial fishing. Why would someone think the city has to "support" one or the other?
    Winter is Coming...

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    Quote Originally Posted by JOAT View Post
    Why? There's more than enough room in Kenai and on The Kenai for sport and commercial fishing. Why would someone think the city has to "support" one or the other?
    Perhaps I misinterpreted the intent of the posters on this thread. They seemed to be bemoaning the fact that the city fathers of Kenai were looking for limitations on dipnetters. If in fact,if 80% of Kenai residents dipnet as Whop says, then our city fathers must truly be great statesmen- by taking a stance against those "that run the pursestrings down there and how to get reelected"

  10. #10
    Premium Member kasilofchrisn's Avatar
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    Just because a person participates in a fishery does not mean they support the fishery in it's entirety. As a local resident I dipnet but, only from a boat and I am not fond of the fiasco going on on our beaches. Trash and rotting fish carcasses as far as the eye can see. Fecal choloform outbreaks on our beaches. Crowds and lines everywhere during dipnet season.
    If the city says they lost money then they lost money.Should it matter why or how? Why should the city of Kenai loose money so YOU can have the convience of dipnetting? A fishery created by the state of Alaska not the city of Kenai!
    Sure the city uses equipment purchased with dipnet fees other times of the year why does that matter? Should they park it when dipping is over and only ue it during dipnet season?
    As am example I own a Halibut boat. I have used my boat for camping,cruising,sight seeing etc. I would not have bought the boat if it wasn't for the availability of fishing the Peninsula has to offer. Since I already own the boat I will use it for other purposes. But would never have bought this boat if I wanted to go camping and cruising a couple times a year. I believe the city of Kenai is in the same boat so to speak.
    As for the fish carcasses. The city manager of Kenai Steve Koch(sp?) was on a local radio discussion program the other day.
    He stated that it is not an easy problem. As an individual we are allowed to dump up to 4,000 pounds of fish waste in the inlet each year.
    On the other hand once the city collects this fish waste it then becomes their waste and they must dispose of it within the state and federal guidelines regarding large amounts of fish waste. Meaning they must haul it 3 miles off shore to dump it or grind it up. In order to grind it small enough to pump it out it must be free of sand and we all know how unlikely that is.
    I believe they tried to find a vendor to do these things and were unsuccessfull. It is not the cities job to open a fish meal plant or a fertilizer plant. That is not what cities do. If a private individual wanted to start one and set up a system to pick up this waste the city of Kenai would gladly let them do it. Are you volunteering yourselves to pick up the hundreds of thousands of fish waste and deal with it acording to the law?
    Maybe I should go to willow or Wasilla and crap in your city park and leave a few rotting fish carcasses next to it. Then use other city services and not pay enough user fees to cover the costs while I am there so your taxes go up.
    I didn't pay the city of Kenai one dime for my dipnet fish last year. I dipped the Kenai from a boat with my wife and my mom and we caught plenty of fish and had a great time. We also took all of our trash home with us and chopped up and dumped our carcasses on the upper Kasilof near my parents house where we cleaned them. No rotting carcasses on the beach from my family.
    Seriously if you don't like what the city charges or any other aspect going on with dipnetting STAY HOME. Grab a rod and reel and learn how to use it or move to the village and buy a subsistence net.
    The city of Kenai did not create this fishery and should not have to pay for it or for you to participate in it!
    Nor should they have to clean up after everbody who uses the cities beaches.
    "The closer I get to nature the farther I am from idiots"

    "Fishing and Hunting are only an addiction if you're trying to quit"

  11. #11
    Member FishGod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kasilofchrisn View Post
    Just because a person participates in a fishery does not mean they support the fishery in it's entirety. As a local resident I dipnet but, only from a boat and I am not fond of the fiasco going on on our beaches. Trash and rotting fish carcasses as far as the eye can see. Fecal choloform outbreaks on our beaches. Crowds and lines everywhere during dipnet season.
    If the city says they lost money then they lost money.Should it matter why or how? Why should the city of Kenai loose money so YOU can have the convience of dipnetting? A fishery created by the state of Alaska not the city of Kenai!
    Sure the city uses equipment purchased with dipnet fees other times of the year why does that matter? Should they park it when dipping is over and only ue it during dipnet season?
    As am example I own a Halibut boat. I have used my boat for camping,cruising,sight seeing etc. I would not have bought the boat if it wasn't for the availability of fishing the Peninsula has to offer. Since I already own the boat I will use it for other purposes. But would never have bought this boat if I wanted to go camping and cruising a couple times a year. I believe the city of Kenai is in the same boat so to speak.
    As for the fish carcasses. The city manager of Kenai Steve Koch(sp?) was on a local radio discussion program the other day.
    He stated that it is not an easy problem. As an individual we are allowed to dump up to 4,000 pounds of fish waste in the inlet each year.
    On the other hand once the city collects this fish waste it then becomes their waste and they must dispose of it within the state and federal guidelines regarding large amounts of fish waste. Meaning they must haul it 3 miles off shore to dump it or grind it up. In order to grind it small enough to pump it out it must be free of sand and we all know how unlikely that is.
    I believe they tried to find a vendor to do these things and were unsuccessfull. It is not the cities job to open a fish meal plant or a fertilizer plant. That is not what cities do. If a private individual wanted to start one and set up a system to pick up this waste the city of Kenai would gladly let them do it. Are you volunteering yourselves to pick up the hundreds of thousands of fish waste and deal with it acording to the law?
    Maybe I should go to willow or Wasilla and crap in your city park and leave a few rotting fish carcasses next to it. Then use other city services and not pay enough user fees to cover the costs while I am there so your taxes go up.
    I didn't pay the city of Kenai one dime for my dipnet fish last year. I dipped the Kenai from a boat with my wife and my mom and we caught plenty of fish and had a great time. We also took all of our trash home with us and chopped up and dumped our carcasses on the upper Kasilof near my parents house where we cleaned them. No rotting carcasses on the beach from my family.
    Seriously if you don't like what the city charges or any other aspect going on with dipnetting STAY HOME. Grab a rod and reel and learn how to use it or move to the village and buy a subsistence net.
    The city of Kenai did not create this fishery and should not have to pay for it or for you to participate in it!
    Nor should they have to clean up after everbody who uses the cities beaches.

    ILLEGALLY DISCARDED FISH WASTE MAY DRAW BEARS, FINES FOR VIOLATORS
    (Anchorage) – As the summer fishing season peaks in Southcentral Alaska, anglers and dip netters are reminded not to dispose of fish waste in Anchorage area streams, lakes and neighborhoods. Improperly discarding fish waste on public or private property is against state and municipal law and can draw bears into areas frequented by the public. Violators may be subject to fines ranging from $300 to $1,000.
    Each summer the Alaska Department of Fish and Game receives reports of salmon waste dumped into Anchorage creeks, lakes and neighborhood areas. This illegal activity is a serious public safety concern; fish waste can draw bears to an area from more than a mile away.
    “People may not realize they are putting other people in danger when they illegally dump fish or fish waste, but this is a serious public safety issue,” said Jessy Coltrane, area biologist for the Division of Wildlife Conservation. “Fish waste attracts bears, and bears may defend these food sources if people accidentally come near.”
    Moving fish waste from drainage to drainage also has the potential to introduce fish pathogens into stream systems, endangering local salmonids, said Dan Bosch, area biologist for the Division of Sport Fish.
    Anglers harvesting a fish from a local stream like Ship or Campbell Creek may gut or fillet the fish and return waste to the stream. Anglers who clean the fish on site are encouraged to chop the fish carcasses into numerous pieces and throw them into fast moving water.
    To properly dispose of unwanted fish or fish waste in a safe manner, please follow these recommendations:
    • If fish is not spoiled and is well packaged, it can be donated to Bean’s Café, which serves meals to the homeless (1101 E. 3rd Ave between 7 a.m. and 5 p.m.)
    • The Alaska Zoo, Bird Treatment and Learning Center, and the Alaska Wildlife Conservation Center will usually accept fish donations for wildlife. Fish cannot be spoiled, smoked, flavored or badly freezer-burned. Call each facility prior to donating to learn about hours and specific needs (Bird Treatment and Learning Center, 562-4852; Alaska Zoo, 346-3242; Alaska Wildlife Conservation Center, 783-2015).
    • Fish waste should be taken directly to a waste transfer station or to the landfill. Another option is to freeze fish waste to eliminate odors and then place it out with garbage on the morning of trash pickup. Do not put waste out the night before trash pickup.
    Your bait stinks and your boat is ugly

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    Guess fish and game needs to pay someone a visit . Let the pissin contest begin, and it`s only mid january

  13. #13
    Premium Member kasilofchrisn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FishGod View Post
    ILLEGALLY DISCARDED FISH WASTE MAY DRAW BEARS, FINES FOR VIOLATORS
    (Anchorage) – As the summer fishing season peaks in Southcentral Alaska, anglers and dip netters are reminded not to dispose of fish waste in Anchorage area streams, lakes and neighborhoods. Improperly discarding fish waste on public or private property is against state and municipal law and can draw bears into areas frequented by the public. Violators may be subject to fines ranging from $300 to $1,000.
    Each summer the Alaska Department of Fish and Game receives reports of salmon waste dumped into Anchorage creeks, lakes and neighborhood areas. This illegal activity is a serious public safety concern; fish waste can draw bears to an area from more than a mile away.
    “People may not realize they are putting other people in danger when they illegally dump fish or fish waste, but this is a serious public safety issue,” said Jessy Coltrane, area biologist for the Division of Wildlife Conservation. “Fish waste attracts bears, and bears may defend these food sources if people accidentally come near.”
    Moving fish waste from drainage to drainage also has the potential to introduce fish pathogens into stream systems, endangering local salmonids, said Dan Bosch, area biologist for the Division of Sport Fish.
    Anglers harvesting a fish from a local stream like Ship or Campbell Creek may gut or fillet the fish and return waste to the stream. Anglers who clean the fish on site are encouraged to chop the fish carcasses into numerous pieces and throw them into fast moving water.
    To properly dispose of unwanted fish or fish waste in a safe manner, please follow these recommendations:
    • If fish is not spoiled and is well packaged, it can be donated to Bean’s Café, which serves meals to the homeless (1101 E. 3rd Ave between 7 a.m. and 5 p.m.)
    • The Alaska Zoo, Bird Treatment and Learning Center, and the Alaska Wildlife Conservation Center will usually accept fish donations for wildlife. Fish cannot be spoiled, smoked, flavored or badly freezer-burned. Call each facility prior to donating to learn about hours and specific needs (Bird Treatment and Learning Center, 562-4852; Alaska Zoo, 346-3242; Alaska Wildlife Conservation Center, 783-2015).
    • Fish waste should be taken directly to a waste transfer station or to the landfill. Another option is to freeze fish waste to eliminate odors and then place it out with garbage on the morning of trash pickup. Do not put waste out the night before trash pickup.
    Thanks for posting that this is the first I have heard of it.
    It doesn't sound like I broke any laws though, just that it is currently an unrecommended practice.
    I guess we always feel it is better to throw it in the Kasilof because it would be better than dumping it somewhere it might attract bears and we do not wish to clean them on the Kenai beach or even visit the beach during the dipnet chaos.
    "The closer I get to nature the farther I am from idiots"

    "Fishing and Hunting are only an addiction if you're trying to quit"

  14. #14

    Default More dipnetters than ever on the Kenai

    Whatever benefits the City of Kenai receives from the PU fishery, financial or otherwise, are indirect. The city did not create this fishery, or ask for it. The state is the primary benefactor of this fishery through license sales.

    Kenai did not charge for access to its beach until the trash became such a problem that it was apparent something needed to be done, and no one else was stepping up, most noticeably the state which created this fishery and directly profits from its prosecution.

    To use completely unsubstantiated numbers about how much you think the city profits from sales tax related to this fishery to defend the disorder, trash, and waste that this fishery is responsible for is completely dishonest.

    Kenai has a long history of dependance on this resource - it's not like these fish went unused before this fishery was created. There are several very historic, very beneficial fisheries that Kenai has depended on and profited from for many, many years. None of them create the problems that the PU fishery does. If the commercial gillnet or inriver fisheries created the amount of trash or 911 calls, or had the number of violations of the PU fishery, they would have been changed long ago.

    To act like the leadership of the City of Kenai is in the pocket of Commercial Fishing is about as far from the truth as you could possible get. Yes, they realize the value of the commercial industry since it has been a staple of the economy pretty much since the earth cooled. But give me a break, our city employees are forming work sessions on how to deal with the effects of 15,000 people simultaneously swarming its beaches, and how to deal with the carelessly discarded waste that is technically ALREADY AGAINST CITY ORDINANCES, despite the fact that the overwhelming setiment of people who live in Kenai are that this fishery is out of control!!! The city would be well within its rights to prohibit camping, enforce the ordinance that already prohibits the disposal of waste, and call it Christmas. If the statistic that 80% of Kenai residents (which I would LOVE to see proof of) dipent, how would this negatively affect them? Is Kenai obligated to consider the needs/wants of Anchorage residents, or is their primary obligation the best interests of the residents of Kenai?

  15. #15

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    Ever been an advisory vote by the residents of Kenai/Soldotna/Kasilof as to the continuation of dipnetting? What do the people really think? Local residents only? ...us four, no more...

  16. #16
    Member BRWNBR's Avatar
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    I bring all my carcasses and heads home for trapping bait and I know a lot of others who'd love to take it as well. Get on Craigslist get a cheap freezer plug it in outside till winter....easy cheap and saves some mess on the river. I love dip netting, it's a huge help for my family and something we look forward doing each year. I'll do what I can to help.
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