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Thread: New rules for dip-netting?

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    Default New rules for dip-netting?

    Some on Kenai Peninsula want new rules for dipnetters
    KENAI, ALASKA — Kenai residents concerned about the increasingly popular personal use fishery on the Kenai Peninsula are calling for the city to put limits on dipnetters.The Kenai City Council on Monday held its first work session to discuss the 2012 dipnetting season report, which says that the Kenai Peninsula experienced its busiest dipnet season to date in 2012.

    Kenai resident Megan Every said dipnetting season has become a time for people to come to Kenai and "trash the beach" and city officials should place limits on dipnetters. . .

    Residents instead pushed for a prohibition on any fish waste disposal on the beaches or in the waters of the river. Users would be required to take whole fish home. . .

    Residents also spoke in favor of putting more pressure on the state and its agencies to alleviate the burgeoning "Woodstock of Alaska," as one attendee described the three-week dipnet season.

    "It's not the city's responsibility to clean up everyone else's trash," said resident Megan Smith. "If it ends up strewn from here to wherever, it becomes a state problem, and this is a state fishery."


    Read more here: http://www.adn.com/2013/01/10/274822...#storylink=cpy



    —much more at the link


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    Interesting article. I do find it hard to believe that the city spends nearly $500,000 for what the article describes as a 3 week season. I would like to see the math from the city as I suspect they are counting salaries or services that would be provided whether or not there was a dipnetting season. Still, I agree the mess is appalling. I am perfectly willing to take my fish home in the round if that's what folks want and the rules get changed to require that. For certain, there is no excuse for any trash to be left laying around-that is just irresponsible on e part of whoever is doing that.

    I never cease to find it quite amazing that Kenai seems to be the only community in Alaska that regularly complains about an influx of visitors and money. We are going to all have to work together to find a way to minimize or eliminate these problems cause those fish belong to the residents of Alaska and we all have a right to access the bounty of that fishery.

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    Palmer, I live in Alaska for a reason. One of them is I don't like big crowds of people in almost all cases. I live in Anchorage, but love to get the heck out of here b/c of I love not being around half the state. I guess some of the people in Kenai might not like huge crowds either. Money isn't everthing you know. How about me and thirty of my friends camp in your yard and have a crazy party........we'll pay your $20 bucks each for the honer of us being there, and poop in your yard. I mean who could complain about that right?

    I also wonder why is dipnetting restricted by area and river really? Serious question. If it were allowed anywhere legal take (say sportfish) was allowed why would that be a bad thing? Enforcement is already kind of a joke so while it would be worse spread out most takes/dipnetting would happen the same places sportfish violations happen and sometimes folks get caught on sportfish violations. I still get steamed I can't dipnet at Kasilof out by the green bouy at low tide. Great spot, steady action.........but not in the dipnetting area so I don't do it anymore. I say spread people out, let them get fish where they live or close to it. I know certain spots/tribs/stocks couldn't handle the pressure so some would have to be off limits. Overall though expand where you can dipnet.

    Heck I'd be fine with a yearly limit with no gear limits period. Get your 30 reds (or whatever) any way you want, in any waters that the fish are in and it's legal to sportfish. I always loved it when they expended the Kasilof dipnetting upriver. No crowds, and I got a great campsite. Barely anyone around.

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    I don't think it would be a good idea to spread dipnetters out. At least the way it is now, the mess is contained in one area. You spread them out and the whole **** river is going to be a mess
    Responsible Conservation > Political Allocation

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    So basically parks and rec spent 9000 over what they took in. With revenue almost 500k, it was basically a net neutral proposition. To say the city lost any money is an accounting gimmick and outright lie. City of Kenai has a sales tax applied to any sales made in town; those 30,000 plus dipnetters all spent some money in Kenai, contributing money to the city coffers. So the city basically spent nothing in support service to dipnetters that visited, earned hundreds of thousands in sales taxes from those dipnetters, created dozens of jobs to support and provide very basic services for dipnetters, bought a 4 wheel Ranger for their Parks Dept to patrol with, and all during a few week dipnet period. Peninsula residents are reaping the benefits of tourism right now, as city services are still being paid for with tax dollars from the summer. So complain away with one hand, while raking in the money with the other.

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    Willphish........ It ain't the city's job to clean up the mess that someone else made. Whoever made the mess is responsible for cleaning it up. The local jurisdiction can, and should, make it easy by having trash cans, privies, recycling bins, etc. But we shouldn't be expecting the local government to be the clean-up crew, regardless of how much $$'s they contribute to the local economy.

  7. #7

    Default New rules for dip-netting?

    Willphish,

    It's not like the City of Kenai didn't make money off these fish before dipnetting came along. Kenai has a very historic economic tie to these fish. This was a fully allocated fishery before dipnetting, and the City of Kenai has always been right in the middle of it. Yes, dipnetting brings revenue to Kenai. It also brings a host of problems, and if allowed to keep growing and growing, has the potential to threaten the commercial industry that Kenai has depended on for so long, and probably damage ecosystem at the same time. Rather ironic that there are several DEC approved canneries practically within carcass-hucking range of this problem area. I'm sure they would gladly process these fish in a safe, environmentally friendly manner.

    So lets create some balance and some healthy limits for this fishery, and it will remain one of many valuable parts of the Kenai's diverse fisheries.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cohoangler View Post
    Willphish........ It ain't the city's job to clean up the mess that someone else made. Whoever made the mess is responsible for cleaning it up. The local jurisdiction can, and should, make it easy by having trash cans, privies, recycling bins, etc. But we shouldn't be expecting the local government to be the clean-up crew, regardless of how much $$'s they contribute to the local economy.
    I agree in part, coho, but that is not the case here. The local government has taken on the responsibility of clean up, as they are charging a very goodly sum to cover the costs of that cleanup. The 50 dollar charge to camp and park on the beach is not a simple privilege fee. It is charged to cover the cost of basic services; outhouse and trash collection. I look at it as a de facto contract with the public. When a public agency charges fees to cover certain basic services, that agency is then obligated by its contract to provide the service it has contracted to provide and is collecting the fees to pay for. I do expect the local jurisdiction to provide basic services- outhouse and dumpster, to justify charging 3 times what the state does for providing the same services at state facilities.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smithtb View Post
    Willphish,

    It's not like the City of Kenai didn't make money off these fish before dipnetting came along. Kenai has a very historic economic tie to these fish. This was a fully allocated fishery before dipnetting, and the City of Kenai has always been right in the middle of it. Yes, dipnetting brings revenue to Kenai. It also brings a host of problems, and if allowed to keep growing and growing, has the potential to threaten the commercial industry that Kenai has depended on for so long, and probably damage ecosystem at the same time. Rather ironic that there are several DEC approved canneries practically within carcass-hucking range of this problem area. I'm sure they would gladly process these fish in a safe, environmentally friendly manner.

    So lets create some balance and some healthy limits for this fishery, and it will remain one of many valuable parts of the Kenai's diverse fisheries.

    If given the means to better dispose of carcasses, 99% will do so. The city could easily provide fish dumpsters, or set up fish cleaning stations, as they do at small boat harbors. If it means a bigger budget for parks and rec, so be it. Kenai's economy is burgeoning; much of it is due to the influx of dollars from dipnetters and sport fishermen. The Kenai Peninsula's sales taxes, borough and city, result in a much lower property tax rate than in other areas of the state. Kenai's is about 8 mils; mine in Willow is over 14. The Kenai area does quite well with all the outside dollars coming in; working with those visitors to minimize their impact on local ecologies should be a priority.

    Fencing off the dunes, putting up signs, and offering privies for people to use so they don't have to poop in the dunes has helped slow the degredation of this habitat. In a nutshell, it works. You can scream about what people do that you don't like, or offer workable alternatives.

  10. #10

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    Willphish,

    The City of Kenai could do a lot of things. Turns out, most of the people who actually live in Kenai happen to think that the Personal Use fishery in our river is out of control. The state created this fishery, and it should be responsible in its management. If I understand you correctly, you're saying that since the City started charging people to access the public beach in order to offset the cost of enforcement and cleanup of a fishery that was dumped into its lap (and that no one else was cleaning up after), you expect that they should be responsible for providing services and solutions to make up for the fact that this fishery is allowed to grow without any limits whatsoever.

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    Keeping the riverbanks clean is a short-term issue that shouldn't be that difficult to resolve. However, the bigger issue, as TB has pointed out, is the growth in the PU fishery. Like any other fishery (commercial, recreational) ADF&G needs to find a way to limit the growth of the fishery. We all know what happens when they don't.......

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    Default enviornmnetally friendly?

    The most environmentally friendly solution for most would be for the fish to be cleaned far upriver and waste dumped their - where it would have ended up anyway had the fish not be caught.

    An alternative would be to provide for some decent fish cleaning stations and ice for sale to preserve the fish, thus encouraging fishermen to use the stations.

    At a minimum, providing some dumpsters for those chuck the carcasses and guts would be a big help.



    Quote Originally Posted by smithtb View Post
    Willphish,

    It's not like the City of Kenai didn't make money off these fish before dipnetting came along. Kenai has a very historic economic tie to these fish. This was a fully allocated fishery before dipnetting, and the City of Kenai has always been right in the middle of it. Yes, dipnetting brings revenue to Kenai. It also brings a host of problems, and if allowed to keep growing and growing, has the potential to threaten the commercial industry that Kenai has depended on for so long, and probably damage ecosystem at the same time. Rather ironic that there are several DEC approved canneries practically within carcass-hucking range of this problem area. I'm sure they would gladly process these fish in a safe, environmentally friendly manner.

    So lets create some balance and some healthy limits for this fishery, and it will remain one of many valuable parts of the Kenai's diverse fisheries.
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

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    Default New rules for dip-netting?

    So the city provides dumpsters. Then they get full of sandy, rotten carcasses that cannot be ground up. What then is the city to do? How do they empty the dumpsters? Take it to the borough landfill? Dump it offshore? There are regulations and permits needed to do these things, and liability involved once the city takes ownership of this waste. Cleaning stations, for example, require clean water. The water at the mouth of the Kenai is polluted and unsafe to use for this purpose (most likely due to issues related to this fishery). Is the city supposed to haul in clean water for these cleaning tables? Are they obligated to do this because they charge for parking and camping on the City beach? Will they get sued if someone gets sick from the contaminated water, or when some barefoot, unsupervised kid on a 4-wheeler gets injured? No matter how you slice it, the overwhelming sentiment within the city is that the benefits of this completely unrestricted fishery do not outweigh the costs involved with dealing with these issues. It is not a city sponsered fishery. It is a state fishery. We are not obligated to facilitate this mess, or accomidate the lack of sensible limits or regulations.

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    Default state takeover...

    I guess the best solution then for Alaskans is for Kenai to lease, sell, or give the land to the state and let then let the state deal with the problem. The state could provide for the required services and clean the whole mess up. They certainly spend enough money helping everyone else; it would hurt for them to spend some bucks on dip netters also. I'd also propose a dip netting license fee to go toward the upkeep: with all the other costs involved a small fee would be hardly noticed.

    Providing thousands of families with some of the abundant fish Alaska is blessed with is a pretty important mission; I'd bet these dip netting citizens provide much more benefit to the state per fish than than the commercial guys provide.


    Quote Originally Posted by smithtb View Post
    So the city provides dumpsters. Then they get full of sandy, rotten carcasses that cannot be ground up. What then is the city to do? How do they empty the dumpsters? Take it to the borough landfill? Dump it offshore? There are regulations and permits needed to do these things, and liability involved once the city takes ownership of this waste. Cleaning stations, for example, require clean water. The water at the mouth of the Kenai is polluted and unsafe to use for this purpose (most likely due to issues related to this fishery). Is the city supposed to haul in clean water for these cleaning tables? Are they obligated to do this because they charge for parking and camping on the City beach? Will they get sued if someone gets sick from the contaminated water, or when some barefoot, unsupervised kid on a 4-wheeler gets injured? No matter how you slice it, the overwhelming sentiment within the city is that the benefits of this completely unrestricted fishery do not outweigh the costs involved with dealing with these issues. It is not a city sponsered fishery. It is a state fishery. We are not obligated to facilitate this mess, or accomidate the lack of sensible limits or regulations.
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
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    Quote Originally Posted by tvfinak View Post
    I'd bet these dip netting citizens provide much more benefit to the state per fish than than the commercial guys provide.
    I nominate this for the highlight reel of "most ridiculous assertions ever made"......
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    If littering is a problem the city has an easy solution, a fine, not a cheap $100 fine make it hurt like $500-$1000. The proceeds can easily pay off the enforcement costs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlaskaHippie View Post
    I nominate this for the highlight reel of "most ridiculous assertions ever made"......
    .................


    "An infinite loop (sometimes called an endless loop ) is a piece of coding that lacks a functional exit so that it repeats indefinitely.. .
    Usually, an infinite loop results from a programming error - for example, where the conditions for exit are incorrectly written. Intentional uses for infinite loops include programs that are supposed to run continuously, such as . . programming for embedded systems."


    Attachment 67260

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    Default easy to show but..

    My assumption would be quite easy to prove by either taxes paid or economic impact or both.

    But then again I'd be accused of "commercial fisheries" bashing as I do every time I publish facts like the state tax revenues that are so embarrassing to the commercial fisheries and there supporters.

    So I'll leave it up you to try and prove just how true my assumption really is - or isn't.


    Quote Originally Posted by AlaskaHippie View Post
    I nominate this for the highlight reel of "most ridiculous assertions ever made"......
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

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    Negative.

    YOU made the claim.

    Substantiate it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlaskaHippie View Post
    . . YOU made the claim.

    Substantiate it.

    Hippie, such unproven, opinionated accusations and slanderous innuendo receive all the substantiation they deserve by the nature of the accusation itself. Poop in, poop out.


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