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Thread: Could this be the reason for the decline of Walrus.

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    Default Could this be the reason for the decline of Walrus.

    This never seem to end the slaughtering of Walrus for there tusks.

    http://www.alaskadispatch.com/articl...e-charged-feds

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    Member sayak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGyver View Post
    This never seem to end the slaughtering of Walrus for there tusks.

    http://www.alaskadispatch.com/articl...e-charged-feds
    I doubt that had any noticeable impact, worse happens every year further north. I am glad Togiak has taken the side of the prosecution unlike villages to the north have when things like this have happened.
    To be fair, the walrus were nearly exterminated by white hunters after the bowhead whales numbers went way down. They have been rebuilding over most of the 20th century. I bet marine pollution from Asia, mostly mercury has played a bigger part in reduced numbers.

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    Regardless, they are poachers and should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Idiots!
    BK

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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGyver View Post
    This never seem to end the slaughtering of Walrus for there tusks.

    http://www.alaskadispatch.com/articl...e-charged-feds

    we recovered 7 walrus on cape pierce one Spring... pretty sure they were the result of one of several Winter shooting sprees..


    not sure what the recovery rate is, but I don't think it's very high.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bkmail View Post
    Regardless, they are poachers and should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Idiots!
    BK
    Will not happen! Remember what happened up in Point Hope about 6 years ago with the 60+ caribou that got mowed down? The men were held up as heros defending traditional hunting practices because the caribou must have been sick!

    About the same time in Kotz we had a pod of Belugas come through the sound and all 60ish never made it out alive. The beach south of town was covered with blood and rotting whales all summer. I remember it well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gulkana Rafting View Post
    Will not happen! Remember what happened up in Point Hope about 6 years ago with the 60+ caribou that got mowed down? The men were held up as heros defending traditional hunting practices because the caribou must have been sick!

    About the same time in Kotz we had a pod of Belugas come through the sound and all 60ish never made it out alive. The beach south of town was covered with blood and rotting whales all summer. I remember it well.
    In the Kivalina case, the council hemmed, hawed, and defended the perps. In this case (and remember this impacts the whole Eskimo Walrus Commission harvest allowance), the village council wants to see them punished. You should read the link he posted. The folks there don't want to see their walrus take jeopardized due to foolish behavior.
    As to the beluga... I can't speak. Folks around Bristol Bay use them right down to the skeletons, but they do leave the bones and innards, concentrating mostly on the blubber and some meat. You will find the leftovers of belugas up and down the beaches of Bristol Bay because they already harvested the "good stuff". Taking of large numbers of beluga is a very old custom. Personally, I can't stomach the stuff.

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    Few can hunt on Round island, its a preserve, I belive only folks who live near there, and the catch is restricted to less than 10, for food only.

    Another example of criminals doing criminal acts.

    Trophy Hunting for tusks, what a waste.

    Most people distain any wasteing of animals, and the fall out from Point Hope and its Caribou shoot down was actually pretty acute around here, but the division came especcially when the Troopers accused folks who were to old to ride the 80 mile R/T to hunt. If the investigation had been done correctly, rather than assambling the village's Elders councl, accusing and threateniong them with legal action for something they had'ent done, then prosacuting the poachers most likely would have had the villages backing. Insted, as USUAL the bully tecniques of the AST got everyone pissed off, pitching the whole of them into the muck and it was a fight afterward.

    As to July 2007, the Beluga that were caughht in quantity in the Kotzebue sound were hunted and processed very efficently. Beluga are butcherd from the outside to the in, they leave the skull and ribs attached to the back bone and the guts in the ribs, and strip all else, leaving the guts inside. Beluga rib meats can be taken from the outside and its very llittle meat thats wasted. Some take the imternal organs, some dont. I belive the catch around the Sound was 52 , from my count, and I did see 3 unbutcherd carcass on the southern beach in the Sound, some that got away and washed up later, as would happen now and then. I should add that I saw maybe 400 beluga myself, and I was along Church rock area , just east of Chamisso when Deering and Kotz 85 miles north caught Beluga. I actually went to Deering and bought a crew a drum of gas for such a hunt (my oldest son's crew), and they scored two about 1/4 of a mile out......after butchering, we took off and spent 3 days pulling the teeth from those beached carcass's from deering to Kotzwebue and filled a 3-1/2 gallon bucket full of ivorys for jewlry. Stunk is the way it is.....

    The recovery rate for hunted Beluga is usually 90-100% as long as they are harpooned before shooting. Same for Walrus. Shooting 'swimmers' in Spring is a way to waste alotta animals as they tend to sink, and you cannot presue them. Most here use a Fish finder sonar and hook them up, but even they dont activly shoot animals swimming, but apon the ice resting.

    And some idiots come along and simply shoot anythimng they see, and waste more than 20 Hunters combined, and make the world **** for others, much like the Sandyhook deal.

    Whats happening to the Walrus is the the ice is much thinner and dosent support their weight to rest apon. As well, the retreating ice isnt staying over the shallows where the Walrus and Seals feed, as it gos North where theres deep ocean and no islands to haul out apon. Walrus, Polar Bears and seals do well in Canada, as they are an archipelligo of islands thet the mammles can haul out on and rest apon during ice free times, theres no such islands north of Bering straight, so the walrus are crowding along the shores and over feeding the resources found there.
    The babys have the hardest time, with no resting ice, crowded beaches and diminishing foods, as well as the travle involved to get to resources for them now.
    If you can't Kill it with a 30-06, you should Hide.

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    In the not too distant past, there was a lot of shooting swimming walrus near Togiak. They didn't worry much about them sinking as they gas up as they rot and float and end up on the beaches. They'd run the beaches on ATVs and cut the ivory from them for trading stock for when the herring seiners would show up. It was well known among the herring fleet that a bottle of booze would get you a head set. In fact when the fleet anchored in the bay, locals in skiffs would be running from seiner to seiner looking to trade. The carcasses on the beaches would be left to rot after the headsets were removed. Some of the seiners would run the beaches and recover oosiks and the smaller ivory teeth left behind.
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    That, tudux, and the fact that ALL Walrus will eventually die.

    All that die float up.

    All Dead Walrus hit the beach.

    All dead Walrus lose thier heads, all of them.

    Poachers, both Native and non Native, along with the "ones that got away" from ligitiment hunters, old age, disease, droundings (lack of sea ice to rest on), wounded, Killer Whale attacks, other Walrus attacking, ect kill walrus, and any village along thier migration rout will get some washed up.

    Besides getting poached from boats, airplanes are also used to shoot and later pick up the heads from Walrus in the shallows. Anybody thats alive, includeing me, you and the wierdo next door can salvage and register Walrus Ivory found washed up on a beach or with in 1/4th of a mile of the beach.

    In the Kotzebue sound, we wait untill the ice in Shishmereff go's out and the breif Walrus Hunt happens. About 4-7 days later the sunk Walrus will float up, after rolling along th bottom with the tides. The wind and tide that takes the ice out brings in Dead Walrus, but hardly any live ones (The Sound is shallow, and the Ice flows out, not in) and we drive out into the Sound and look for either carcass's on sand bars or floating flippers up (heavy heads with ivory) with flocks of seagulls flying/resting/eating on the carcass. Those Walruse died days/weeks/months before and traveld with the Ocean and Ice to get deposited along the beaches we roam for such Valuta.

    You can tell how long ago the carcass was made dead by the "Stink", and Ive even found them encased in Ice in the ice pack, frozen where they died, who knows how long before.

    Our favorite 'Look out' for the Ocean, where I'll keep camp immediatly after the ice go's out and help the women with what the sons and inlaws bring in from the Ice Pack, just visable about 3 miles out in this picture.


    One of the carcasses mention'd earlier;





    Walrus are VALUABLE, both in food and materials to make all kinds of stuff, arts, crafts and such. A man witha boat load of Walrus meak, Ivory, skin and flippers is a Rich man indeed.

    To shoot one just for the tusks is a crime that should be Hotly persued and slammed.
    If you can't Kill it with a 30-06, you should Hide.

    "Dam it all", The Beaver told me.....

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    Stranger,
    Appreciate your history lesson and all, but it still doesn't make the poachers OK.
    As for the caribou deal, AST might be aggressive but that doesn't justify slaughtering 60+ caribou and leave them lay on the the tundra.

    Stranger says... "but the division came especcially when the Troopers accused folks who were to old to ride the 80 mile R/T to hunt. If the investigation had been done correctly, rather than assambling the village's Elders councl, accusing and threateniong them with legal action for something they had'ent done, then prosacuting the poachers most likely would have had the villages backing. Insted, as USUAL the bully tecniques of the AST got everyone pissed off, pitching the whole of them into the muck and it was a fight afterward."

    Sooo, by the logic stated above, in your eyes it's OK for me to whack 60+ (moose, caribou, bears, musk ox, etc....) and then bow up and band together as a community in Wasilla cause the darn AST was aggressive when they came looking for me?! Really.....that's justifiable in your book?

    How can you possibly defend this blatant waste by poachers? It baffles me that the rural communities think they are entitled to the game just because they are rural. I have a remote cabin.....shouldn't I be allowed special privileges too?

    Normally I appreciate your post as I find them interesting, but this time it seems you are actually defending these circumstances.
    BK

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    Bkmail,
    You may want to re-read Strangers two posts on this thread. I did not read his posts as arguing for justifying poachers with statements like:

    “Another example of criminals doing criminal acts.”, “Trophy hunting for tusks, what a waste.”, and “To shoot one just for the tusks is a crime that should be hotly pursued and slammed.”

    As for his stance on the Point Hope caribou slaughter, I agree with his perspective on how the AST approached the village leadership improperly. The approach used probably did set them against helping the AST. If I were approached heavy-handily, I would not assist as much as if I was approached in a respectful manner. I wasn’t there, but I will take Strangers view on how it was handled as a fair assessment of how the AST approach was perceived by the village elders.

    “The division came especially when the Troopers accused folks who were too old to ride the 80 mile R/T to hunt. If the investigation had been done correctly, rather than assembling the village's Elders council, accusing and threatening them with legal action for something they hadn’t done, then prosecuting the poachers most likely would have had the villages backing. Instead, as USUAL the bully techniques of the AST got everyone pissed off, pitching the whole of them into the muck and it was a fight afterward.

    Respect towards elders goes a long ways. If someone came into your house like they owned it, would you be as cooperative as if they came hat in hand?


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    Moderator bkmail's Avatar
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    Ralph,
    I hear ya....might have been a little riled when I typed. Appreciate the second look from another.
    I apologize if I jumped him without cause....
    BK

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    All kinds of people do dumb stuff; red, yellow, black, white, or shades in between. There is plenty of wanton waste that goes on in the state, and has for more than a century... or even before that. Yeah, some of "them" from each group do bad things. To keep up this "they/them" stuff is divisive.

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    I'm glad theres understanding, I wouldnt want my hate for those who misuse or steal the resources we depend on to make a living to be misunderstood ~~LOL!!~~ akin to a logger who despises the city campers and their fireworks in the forest during a drought...
    Poachers are stealing from all of us and I hate Theives.


    None of us should ever justify or excuse any one from thier responsibilitys, when wrong is done. When I post threads, I look at the crux or cause of the problems, and I try and offer a solution or point out what went wrong , so if we can fix it, fix it.....if not, then how we can avoid such.........and then I think I try to show the leagal way to go about things, or how I go about such, hence the vids and pix.
    The Oceans in trouble enough as it is, and the least we can do is be very guarded and watchfull, because its health is our health.
    If you can't Kill it with a 30-06, you should Hide.

    "Dam it all", The Beaver told me.....

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