Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 33

Thread: Permit debacle of 2013...

  1. #1
    New member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    5,416

    Default Permit debacle of 2013...

    Well so my sheep hunting partner and I got our wires crossed. A couple weeks ago I asked… "so, should we do a party app again for sheep this year?" He says ya and said something about other permits he applied for like buffalo and asked about how many permits you could apply for. I said it "depends on species" or something like that. I asked if he wanted to do the application and pick the hunts (3 out of the 4 TMA and DCUA is what we've been doing). He says- "naw, you go ahead".


    This conversation was about 30-45 secs long just before the church service (partner is also my Pastor) sort of in passing.


    Well, I applid for 1 TMA and both DCUA hunts. We talked again on the phone and he gave me his info. I then emailed him the receipt from ADF&G. He then calls me up and sort of frantically says…. "I had already applied for DCUA hunts as an individual!!" I says "WHAT!!… why didn't you tell me!!!" He says "I DID" He thinks he told me applied for DCUA, he may have but I missed it.....well anyway, bottom line is we screwed up….


    We both talked to F&G and basically it's…. "too bad so sad thanks for the $$"


    So, the system will see that he has over applied for DCUA sheep. I have not over applied but my hunts are connected with his because of the party app. F&G doesn't know if mine will get kicked out or not but his will for sure. I got a phone number for the system programmers in Juneau and will call after the first of the year for curiosty sake.


    I understand the rules that all apps are final. But, from a database programmers perspective, it would be fairly easy to have the oniine system check for duplicate hunts at the time of application and not let you do that. Any idea of how and who to approach to see if they can change this for next year? The F&G guy I talked to did not know.


    So, any of you who applied for TMA early hunt and DCUA hunts. Your odds of drawing just went up…. your welcome… to bad so sad for me...
    Last edited by Snyd; 12-24-2012 at 13:18.
    A gun is like a parachute. If you need one, and don’t have one, you’ll probably never need one again

  2. #2
    Moderator kingfisherktn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Ketchikan, AK
    Posts
    4,076

    Default

    Thanks Perry for the Christmas present.

  3. #3
    Member Ernie Scar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Soldotna
    Posts
    150

    Default

    That's a real bummer I know how disappointed I'd be if that happened to me. If it makes you feel any better though IMHO there are general harvest areas out there that are better than the draw areas. You're a hard working guy I think you'd be able to find one of these areas.

  4. #4
    New member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    5,416

    Default

    Ya, Merry Christmas kingfisherktn!

    At least at this point we still have General Harvest areas. Lord willing I'll still be in the Sheep Mtns in '13. I've drawn DCUA and accompanied another friend on his DCUA hunt, both long walk-ins. 3 rams out of those two hunts. I figure I'm ahead of the game. But, I'd still like to draw DCUA motor-in and of course TMA. Oh well. Maybe a Wrangell's fly-in this year.
    A gun is like a parachute. If you need one, and don’t have one, you’ll probably never need one again

  5. #5
    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Palmer, AK
    Posts
    11,415

    Default

    Good night Earnie... That ram in your avatar is a stud!

  6. #6
    Member AK-HUNT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Valley
    Posts
    1,029

    Default

    No Doubt! Whats the story on that little fella?

  7. #7
    Member 4merguide's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Kenai Peninsula, Alaska
    Posts
    9,749

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LuJon View Post
    Good night Earnie... That ram in your avatar is a stud!
    I know.....every time I look at his avatar I'm just mesmerized. He told me about it awhile back because I just HAD to know about it. Maybe if you ask nice he'll tell you guys about it too......lol. Maybe even more pics...!!!

    Oh, and sorry Perry about the problem. I almost applied for the same goat tag this year that I drew last year. A friend an I had talked about it weather I could or not. At the last minute I read the "read this section before applying" and glad I did. But now that buddy of mine didn't read it and ended up putting in for the same tag he won last year. So we're waiting to see what happens with his app.
    Sheep hunting...... the pain goes away, but the stupidity remains...!!!

  8. #8

    Default Permit debacle of 2013...

    Happens to me with my moose this year. I feel it's a I got you moment fe adfg and not right. Should beable to change fix these problems or something in place to prevent it.

  9. #9
    Member mod elan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Glennallen
    Posts
    1,476

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 4merguide View Post
    Oh, and sorry Perry about the problem. I almost applied for the same goat tag this year that I drew last year. A friend an I had talked about it weather I could or not. At the last minute I read the "read this section before applying" and glad I did. But now that buddy of mine didn't read it and ended up putting in for the same tag he won last year. So we're waiting to see what happens with his app.
    I thought the system was set up to not allow you to choose a tag you weren't allowed to apply for? Swear I remember doing that one year and the system wouldn't accept it well in advance of the checkout process.

  10. #10
    Member 4merguide's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Kenai Peninsula, Alaska
    Posts
    9,749

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mod elan View Post
    I thought the system was set up to not allow you to choose a tag you weren't allowed to apply for? Swear I remember doing that one year and the system wouldn't accept it well in advance of the checkout process.
    Actually we were wondering why his app didn't get rejected right away, but it did go through.
    Sheep hunting...... the pain goes away, but the stupidity remains...!!!

  11. #11
    Member mod elan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Glennallen
    Posts
    1,476

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 4merguide View Post
    Actually we were wondering why his app didn't get rejected right away, but it did go through.
    Ouch Something as fun as this always has my full attention. That and I rarely do party permits.

  12. #12
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    6,031

    Default I don't buy it

    Quote Originally Posted by Snyd View Post
    Well, I applid for 1 TMA and both DCUA hunts. We talked again on the phone and he gave me his info. I then emailed him the receipt from ADF&G. He then calls me up and sort of frantically says…. "I had already applied for DCUA hunts as an individual!!" I says "WHAT!!… why didn't you tell me!!!" He says "I DID" He thinks he told me applied for DCUA, he may have but I missed it.....well anyway, bottom line is we screwed up….


    We both talked to F&G and basically it's…. "too bad so sad thanks for the $$"


    So, the system will see that he has over applied for DCUA sheep. I have not over applied but my hunts are connected with his because of the party app. F&G doesn't know if mine will get kicked out or not but his will for sure. I got a phone number for the system programmers in Juneau and will call after the first of the year for curiosty sake.
    Sum up the situation succinctly and send it in a $5.15 envelope (with tracking) to the top 4 dogs you can identify at F&G. There is no way they can stand on this precedent; it is untenable.

    Some reasons why I say this:

    - You say that his app will get kicked out for sure, but his app was fine and legal until you did your app. Despite the misunderstanding you had, how can he possibly get dinged for a transaction that you alone did with F&G?

    - Even worse, if this precedent stands, next year some idiot with lots of money that wants to make trouble will merely apply for a bunch of party permits for very popular permits (delta bison comes to mind) for another person or persons, merely for the person of "taking that person out". Untenable.
    Last edited by FamilyMan; 12-24-2012 at 20:08. Reason: P.S. Sorry for your current apparent permit loss. I didn't mean to be unsympathetic to your individual circumstances in this snafu.

  13. #13
    New member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    5,416

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FamilyMan View Post
    Sum up the situation succinctly and send it in a $5.15 envelope (with tracking) to the top 4 dogs you can identify at F&G. There is no way they can stand on this precedent; it is untenable.

    Some reasons why I say this:

    - You say that his app will get kicked out for sure, but his app was fine and legal until you did your app. Despite the misunderstanding you had, how can he possibly get dinged for a transaction that you alone did with F&G?

    - Even worse, if this precedent stands, next year some idiot with lots of money that wants to make trouble will merely apply for a bunch of party permits for very popular permits (delta bison comes to mind) for another person or persons, merely for the person of "taking that person out". Untenable.
    Very good points. Yup, his app was fine and legit until I put him on the party permit for the same 2 hunts he'd already applied for. His app for those had been in the system for several weeks and should not be kicked out because of something I did. And, at some point the system will recognize the duplicates and kick him/us out of the system. There's no reason that the system should not be able recognize the dups at the time of the application.

    You make a good point about someone being able to intentionally sabotage an app. If you know the persons name, address and drivers license and add them to the party app, it pulls up their hunting lic number if they have a current license. If the don't, and you have that info one could purchase that as well.

    I'll talk to my partner about this. Maybe he should be the one to write the letters.

    Also, any idea where I should start to bring attention to this flaw in the system? By flaw I mean the system allowing one to apply for the same hunt twice.
    A gun is like a parachute. If you need one, and don’t have one, you’ll probably never need one again

  14. #14

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Snyd View Post
    Very good points. Yup, his app was fine and legit until I put him on the party permit for the same 2 hunts he'd already applied for. His app for those had been in the system for several weeks and should not be kicked out because of something I did. And, at some point the system will recognize the duplicates and kick him/us out of the system. There's no reason that the system should not be able recognize the dups at the time of the application.

    You make a good point about someone being able to intentionally sabotage an app. If you know the persons name, address and drivers license and add them to the party app, it pulls up their hunting lic number if they have a current license. If the don't, and you have that info one could purchase that as well.

    I'll talk to my partner about this. Maybe he should be the one to write the letters.

    Also, any idea where I should start to bring attention to this flaw in the system? By flaw I mean the system allowing one to apply for the same hunt twice.
    Personally, I would recommend starting with the local ADF&G office. Hold off on going to the Juneau office until you have to. You can always go up the ladder if you aren't satisfied with the answer you get (or don't get) from the lower levels. The thing that will piss people off the most is to skip over them and go to the top, then when told to go back down to whoever actually is responsible, they may not be as helpful.

    As Mod Elan said, the system used to not let you put in an application for a hunt you won a permit for the previous year. I know I tried once 4 or 5 years ago by accident and it gave me an error message each time I tried to enter the hunt number. It may be something they didn't activate or include by accident when they set up the newest version of the permit application system.

  15. #15
    New member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    5,416

    Default

    My partner went to ADF&G here in town and was told there was nothing anyone could do. All apps are final. I had emailed ADF&G off the website and got a response back. I immediately called the guy who responded and talked to him. He said there's nothing they could do, it's all in "the system" and run by the "programmers" in Juneau. I think I need to find out who runs "the system".

    If the system is smart enough to know you are ineligible for a hunt from the previous year, it should be smart enough to know if a guy applied for the same hunt twice in the same year and should be able to let him know at the time of the app.

    I know some guys on my local Advisory Committee. Maybe I'll give them a call and see what they think.
    A gun is like a parachute. If you need one, and don’t have one, you’ll probably never need one again

  16. #16
    Member martentrapper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Fairbanks, Ak.
    Posts
    4,191

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Snyd View Post
    I think I need to find out who runs "the system".
    Best guess I would think is it is contracted to an outside firm.
    I can't help being a lazy, dumb, weekend warrior.......I have a JOB!
    I have less friends now!!

  17. #17

    Default

    Not to be an ass, as I respect Snyd, but it is what it is. I screwed up a few years ago and did the same. I don't see an issue with it being the way it is. Lesson learned.

  18. #18
    New member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    5,416

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by northway View Post
    Not to be an ass, as I respect Snyd, but it is what it is. I screwed up a few years ago and did the same. I don't see an issue with it being the way it is. Lesson learned.
    No prob. Yup, we screwed up and it is what it is. I am however surprised that the system allows one to apply for duplicate hunts and does'nt catch it at the point of entry. It will catch it at somepoint in the process. I design databases and have an understanding of how they work and this online interface that does not recognize a duplicate entry seems to me like a design flaw. Unless it's intentional.
    A gun is like a parachute. If you need one, and don’t have one, you’ll probably never need one again

  19. #19

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Snyd View Post
    No prob. Yup, we screwed up and it is what it is. I am however surprised that the system allows one to apply for duplicate hunts and does'nt catch it at the point of entry. It will catch it at somepoint in the process. I design databases and have an understanding of how they work and this online interface that does not recognize a duplicate entry seems to me like a design flaw. Unless it's intentional.
    Snyd, yes I agree with you for sure on not being able to duplicate! That just makes sense, but we do live in America, the land of NEVER making sense, at least "common" sense! LOL! Merry Christmas!

  20. #20
    Member fullkurl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Alaska/Idaho
    Posts
    2,162

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by northway View Post
    Not to be an ass, as I respect Snyd, but it is what it is. I screwed up a few years ago and did the same. I don't see an issue with it being the way it is. Lesson learned.
    +1.............
    Proud to be an American!

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •