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Thread: Bear spray in the class rooms?

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    Default Bear spray in the class rooms?

    I don't know where to post this post but I don't recall anyone talking about this and thought I would throw this out for discussion.

    While talking to a good friend of mine that lives in the lower 48 this afternoon he was explaining to me that some folks down there were looking for information on bear spray and would it possibly act as a deturrent on intruders. They thought it may be a non lethal alternative that could be put in every classroom. The reasoning behind it would be that it would take less proficiency than that of a firearm and less consiquences if tampered with by children and it would also eliminate the risk of a stray bullet. I'm no expert about these types of non lethal protection devices but it does seem to make some sence to me. After all if an intruder can't see or breathe it could give people some time to get away or fight back. I know this may not work all the time but every little bit helps.

    What do you think?
    John
    Life is too important to be taken seriously.

    Chinese proverb

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    I was thinking the same thing this morning.. The bear spray has range of 30feet I think... If I was a teacher I would have a can of it for sure... You imagine hey punk then one heavy ass dose of bear spray to the face... That stuff is CS gas on steroids for sure...

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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    I think it would not stop the shooter plus it would also get the kids making it hard for them to see and get out of the room. Locked class room doors would be better in my OFO
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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    Member junkak's Avatar
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    I'm liking this method of thought. Add in some flash bangs and everyone lives.....unless the perp is wearing a mask or even experienced in how to handle pepper spray.

    Still want a couple teachers / staff ccw with real ammo.

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    Armed fraking guards at schools would be the best deterrent, if they start locking the doors on class rooms that's the day I pull my child from public school and home school him again.

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    Member junkak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EvilBlackGun View Post
    Armed fraking guards at schools would be the best deterrent, if they start locking the doors on class rooms that's the day I pull my child from public school and home school him again.
    Hope your child does not go to Mountain View Elementary. They have locked the doors. You must knock on a window to enter according to the ADN.

    I'm sure it reads worse than it is but still makes one think. That school had the knife attack several years ago. Sick ****.

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    That disturbs me very much to think that any child is locked into a any type of room or possible cage of doom I hope they barred the windows too to repel entrance through them just to complete there useless attempt at safety with out increasing there budget,what a joke.

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    Default Re: Bear spray in the class rooms?

    The doors still open from the inside, fwiw

    sent from my igloo

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    While we're on the subject of increased school security. Why not make gun free zones like schools into more of a fortress? Not a prison, see the other thread on terminology!


    Have lockable bullet proof doors with external keypad, a balistic window, and steel reinforcement and you have a good start to securing the children. If a shooter can not get into the children then the children are safer.

    Add balistic glass on all ground accessible levels, so a shooter can not stand on the outside and shoot into the class room. Have one window that can be released from the inside to allow quick exits in case of fire or other reasons to leave the safe secure class room.

    At the first sound of gunfire a teacher can shut and lock the kids in for safety. Add in a panic button to alert the rest of the building and police.

    Many schools have internal doors in various sections that can be used to section off the building to restrict access. Have these doors remotely tied into the panic button system. If a shooter got into a schol past the parimeter security and guards, then they could be contained in the halls.

    To pay for these school security measures, fund locally through a one time security tax on the residents within that school district. It is their kids whose safety is being provided for.

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    Moderator Daveinthebush's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph View Post
    While we're on the subject of increased school security. Why not make gun free zones like schools into more of a fortress? Not a prison, see the other thread on terminology! .....
    Who would pay for all of this? To stop a .22 caliber bullet traveling at 900 fps takes 2 sheets of 1/4" Lexan with a min. 3/8" airspace. We did extensive testing on this for train and bus windows back in the 80's. Replacing door locks in Valdez alone was once estimated at around $5-6K. To do everything you ask in every school in Alaska alone the cost would be tremendous.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daveinthebush View Post
    Who would pay for all of this? To stop a .22 caliber bullet traveling at 900 fps takes 2 sheets of 1/4" Lexan with a min. 3/8" airspace. We did extensive testing on this for train and bus windows back in the 80's. Replacing door locks in Valdez alone was once estimated at around $5-6K. To do everything you ask in every school in Alaska alone the cost would be tremendous.
    Agreed Dave, it would be expensive.

    Since the 80's balistic glass has come a long ways! We now have glass that stopps 30-50 caliber rounds and IEDs shrapnel. The armored windows on our trucks we drive all over Afghanistan have some serious glass! 2-3 inches or more of the best stuff money can buy.

    To answer your question, see the last sentences of my post. The cost would be covered by a tax within that school zone.

    My wife works in a school and my kids attend, I'd be more than willing to pay a one time tax to fund a school fortification plan to protect them.

    If the costs were equally distributed within a school district, the cost per family would probably be the same as that of a couple black rifles. 2-3K, that is acceptable to me. I spend that much yearly on guns and ammo, so why wouldn't I pay it for added protection for my family in a gun-free zone?


    As responsible gun owners fighting to maintain our rights, we need to offer workable solutions to help mitigate the future shooting that are going to occur, they will be expensive, but the alternative is the loss of our rights.

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    Moderator Daveinthebush's Avatar
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    Ralph I hear what you are saying but most schools are not built with safety in mind. Most are built to be architecturally pleasing. Our elementary school in Valdez, the cost to make the windows bullet proof would be in the millions. In many cases thicker glass might mean replacing the entire window frame or curtain wall system. Then how do you get people to not open windows on nice days?

    I don't see any good answers to securing the safety of everyone. If someone wants to hurt people, there are far too many possibilities for them to look at.

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    Dave I agree,

    When someone wants to hurt some esle, they will find a way. What I am talking about is offering options to mitigate the amount of hurt that can be applied. Most schools are used as fall out shelters and emergency shelters, meaning they are brick and mortar hardstand buildings. Most that I have seen have cinderblock walls to help reduce noise from one room to another.The walls are already fairly bullet resistant.

    Securing the outside doors would be my first thought. Then make the classroom door system easily locked and securable at the first sound of gunfire. Heck given the option, I'd pay for the door to the room when my wife and kids are. Granted the outside windows would be costly, and perhaps would need to be bullet proof, if there was adequate security patroling the grounds.

    Schools already have fire alarms, another system added in with a shooter alarm shouldn't be that hard to create.

    Again, we need to offer posible solutions. These are just my thoughts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daveinthebush View Post
    Ralph I hear what you are saying but most schools are not built with safety in mind.
    Dave I have not been to Valdez and therefore can not speak of the schools there, but most of the schools I've seen are pretty sturdy structures. Better than most homes and other buildings. Even though they were not built with safety in mind, especially gun safety, any building can be improved on and better fortified.

    Think about it, after 911, we secured the cock pits of all commerical airliners, even though they were not built with that safety feature in mind. Try breaking into the cock pit now. Possible but much harder. Why can't we do something similar with our class rooms for our kids?

    By the way.

    Hypothetical simple math, if a school had a student population of say 500 kids and ONLY the parents paid 3K per student, then the school would have 1.5 million to fortify with. Surely not enough to do everything, but enough to provide an acceptable start. Now figure in the amount that would be covered if all residents in that school zone paid in. Figure if the 3K was collected over a year, 250 per month. Most, not all, families can afford that. It would be a small price to pay for safety, and if kept at a local level, less likely to be used for other means by big government.

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    Arming teachers, whether with bear spray or guns, to deal with school shootings is the equivalent of police bringing coffee to the scene of the scene of a drunk driving accident. The damage is already done. If you make teachers start carrying weapons, I guarantee the there will be more school violence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frostbitten View Post
    Arming teachers, whether with bear spray or guns, to deal with school shootings is the equivalent of police bringing coffee to the scene of the scene of a drunk driving accident. The damage is already done. If you make teachers start carrying weapons, I guarantee the there will be more school violence.
    I guarantee there will be more school violence regardless, but we must mitigate it somehow. What do you propose?

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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    If you want to really save kids work on laws to require all kids to wear life jackets when in or near water.
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amigo Will View Post
    I think it would not stop the shooter plus it would also get the kids making it hard for them to see and get out of the room. Locked class room doors would be better in my OFO
    If the perp was in the classroom, it would drive him out. I think the idea could reduce casualties. Not perfect, but better than nothing.

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    Member Frostbitten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph View Post
    I guarantee there will be more school violence regardless, but we must mitigate it somehow. What do you propose?
    people need to start speaking up when they see/hear the warning signs that these wackos invariably put out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frostbitten View Post
    people need to start speaking up when they see/hear the warning signs that these wackos invariably put out.
    I whole heartedly agree that is one thing that can be done, but we know how slow the government works.

    From the reports I've heard about this shooting, the mother was doing just that, but he took actions into his own hands. Possibly due to his mothers concern about his mental stability.

    Speaking up and identifing these people ahead of time is one option, but we need a wholistic approach to the overall problem. Attack it from many angles.

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