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Thread: G20sf

  1. #1
    Member marshall's Avatar
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    Default G20sf

    I just joined the GOG, Glock Owners Group. I've been tossing the idea around for a few years and decided now is the time to capture the benefits of the high capacity mag semi auto hand gun before any limits are placed on them going forward.

    I realize there has been a ton of threads on the G20 but I'm hoping to get answers to a few key items without digging up and reading thousands of posts.

    First of all I have large hands as do most men that do a lot of work with their hands, size 11. The reason I choose the SF model is the large bump on the lower end of the back strap that's on the standard model G20. That bump causes the muzzle to tilt down away from my natural point of aim and I do shoot several other hand guns so more natural is better for me rather than developing a separate Glock only style. The bump is much smaller on the SF model and fits the contour of my hand with a better feel.

    There is a service at one of the better gun stores down here that reshapes the Glock grip, raises the trigger guard so the middle finger doesn't get whacked allowing a slightly higher grip and adds texture for wet weather handling. The turn around is 4-6 weeks, I'll post pics when she's returned.

    My questions are about mods.

    I understand the desire to switch connectors for a lighter trigger, I may or may not. I will shoot this gun first and decide. My H&K USP is stock and feels fine for my needs at work and in matches.

    Why is it that guys are changing the recoil spring?

    Is the factory spring defective, light, heavy, wrong for the factory loads that guys are shooting?

    I understand the polygonal twist versus riffling debate but is shooting hard cast really an issue for those of you that have done it?

    Is there another reason that an after market barrel would improve reliability? If so why and which barrel company?

    Ive seen the warning posted by Glock but it refers to lead build up. Will shooting one magazine worth of hard cast bullets cause a problem?

    My intent is to shoot hollow points 99.99% of the time and have a Hard Cast load for worst case, no rifle in my hands woods defense.

    Thanks in advance for your opinions.

  2. #2

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    There are several levels of power for the ammo in a 10mm handgun. Norma and Cor-Bon build some of the hotter ones, these rounds hammer the frame pretty hard with a stock recoil spring and realyl require a heavier spring for best results. As for using lead ammo I've only seen problems with the ported barrel building up residue in the ports. Some aftermarket barrels are longer giving more velocity some are threaded, some are longer and ported, the longer barrels protrude from the frame an inch or so.
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    Member danattherock's Avatar
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    Why is it that guys are changing the recoil spring?

    So high power loads don't beat the slide up and prevents brass from flying 25 feet. Got 22 lb in mine if I recall. ISMI captured rod and spring.



    Is the factory spring defective, light, heavy, wrong for the factory loads that guys are shooting?

    Stiffer spring is only of benefit if shooting high power loads in my opinion. I run Double Tap through mine and prefer the spring change.



    I understand the polygonal twist versus riffling debate but is shooting hard cast really an issue for those of you that have done it?

    I put a KKM barrel in mine for piece of mind shooting hard cast, all that I shoot in my G20SF. Is it needed, some say no, but there are pictures of blown up Glocks online as well. Depends on who you choose to listen to. My gut says hard cast in factory barrel is fine, but I didn't want to worry about it. The real benefit in the KKM barrel, accuracy was much better. Best mod I bought for my G20.


    Is there another reason that an after market barrel would improve reliability? If so why and which barrel company?

    KKM was my choice after much searching online, reading forum threads, talking with folks, etc.. Incredible barrel.



    Ive seen the warning posted by Glock but it refers to lead build up. Will shooting one magazine worth of hard cast bullets cause a problem?

    Not in my experience. I have shot 100-150 rounds numerous times with no issues. Factory barrel and KKM alike. Never had any significant build up.



    My intent is to shoot hollow points 99.99% of the time and have a Hard Cast load for worst case,


    Lots of good 10mm ammo out there. Check out what Mike offers at Double Taps website. They got some very powerful offerings. For 'normal' ammo, best price out now is at The Ammunition Store (website) and they got Remington 180 gr box of 50 for $23. I buy my 50 BMG ammo there, good folks to deal with.


    Try a rubber slip on grip. It changed the feel of my G20 in a very appreciable way. $15


















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    I do Glock grip reductions and stippling and I have yet to have fellow leave without being very happpy. I'm sure whomever is doing yours will do just fine too. I shoot KKM barrels rather than Glock but you will not have a problem with a few lead bulltes down the Glock barrel. One of my IDPA guns is a G22 with about 80K rounds thru it and they were all mid power Ranier coated lead and they work fine. I guess if I were shooting hot loads I would go to a KKM or other aftermarket barrel.
    Somewhere along the way I have lost the ability to act politically correct. If you should find it, please feel free to keep it.

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    Member marshall's Avatar
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    Thanks for the posts so far. The grip work I'm interested in is primarily releaving the trigger guard just above the middle finger knuckle and adding 360 degree texturing.

    Diffidently not a match gun or a weekly target gun. Planning on Double Tap hollow points for personal defense and hard cast for camping loads.

    I'm not familiar with the Glock yet and appreciate the comments on the modifications and why. Seems like the hot rod Chevy of hand guns...

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    I think I would call them the Ford F 250...just keep on chuggin along.
    Somewhere along the way I have lost the ability to act politically correct. If you should find it, please feel free to keep it.

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    Marshall, Have you shot your G20SF much yet? I found that mine was shoot to a different point of impact than I wanted. I changed out the sights and it is much better. I went with three dot night sight, and if I remember correctly a little taller. I mainly use mine as a tag along on four wheeling trips and hunting, back up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AK Bearcat View Post
    Marshall, Have you shot your G20SF much yet? I found that mine was shoot to a different point of impact than I wanted. I changed out the sights and it is much better. I went with three dot night sight, and if I remember correctly a little taller. I mainly use mine as a tag along on four wheeling trips and hunting, back up.

    No I have not. I have shot several others in a variety of calibers. I prefer the SF grip design to the previous models I have shot. I run night sights on my other hand guns and plan the same for this one.

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    Hi Marshall. I'll try to give my take as best I can not that my opinion is better or more valid than another Glock shooter, it is just my experience with the guns.



    Quote Originally Posted by marshall View Post
    I just joined the GOG, Glock Owners Group. I've been tossing the idea around for a few years and decided now is the time to capture the benefits of the high capacity mag semi auto hand gun before any limits are placed on them going forward.

    I realize there has been a ton of threads on the G20 but I'm hoping to get answers to a few key items without digging up and reading thousands of posts.

    First of all I have large hands as do most men that do a lot of work with their hands, size 11. The reason I choose the SF model is the large bump on the lower end of the back strap that's on the standard model G20. That bump causes the muzzle to tilt down away from my natural point of aim and I do shoot several other hand guns so more natural is better for me rather than developing a separate Glock only style. The bump is much smaller on the SF model and fits the contour of my hand with a better feel.

    There is a service at one of the better gun stores down here that reshapes the Glock grip, raises the trigger guard so the middle finger doesn't get whacked allowing a slightly higher grip and adds texture for wet weather handling. The turn around is 4-6 weeks, I'll post pics when she's returned.

    My questions are about mods.

    I understand the desire to switch connectors for a lighter trigger, I may or may not. I will shoot this gun first and decide. My H&K USP is stock and feels fine for my needs at work and in matches. To do this research all the options. There is Glock factory 3.5# and there is aftermarket, such as Ghost, and others, that give a different trigger feel as well as making it lighter. It is easy to do but with the Ghost Rocket you must understand what is going on with the fit up and note that if you cannot dry fire the pistol you can't take it down, so a special technique must be used.

    Why is it that guys are changing the recoil spring? The captive spring rod is plastic and it will break. A great number of rounds or something less but it will break. So we swap for steel rod (and captive spring) To try to eliminate that at the wrong time.

    Is the factory spring defective, light, heavy, wrong for the factory loads that guys are shooting? In my G21 (45 ACP) I swap out a barrel and heavier spring to shoot 45 Super in the gun. I would go to a heavier weight spring for what would be a steady diet of significantly heavier loads. Other than that I don't see the need.

    I understand the polygonal twist versus riffling debate but is shooting hard cast really an issue for those of you that have done it? Glock says don't do it but I have for lots of rounds. You do have to clean the lead build-up out of the mouth of the chamber and of course clean the lead streaks from the throat and chamber end of rifling as you would with any gun. This lead in the rifling isn't bad at all for hard cast. I don't crimp when loading hard cast just enough to straighten the flare from the case and and test by dropping the loaded round in the barrel removed from the pistol. They should drop in the fall free with just gravity.

    Is there another reason that an after market barrel would improve reliability? If so why and which barrel company? I do not think there is another barrel that will improve reliability with lead or jacketed. The lead build up in the chamber is the biggest problem with Glock or any auto-loader and I have not found a barrel that makes that better. Others may have a better idea about another barrel. I have KKM, (357 for my G22 and match 9x19 for my G34) Lone Wolfe (6" 10 MM) and Storm Lake for a couple calibers, one is ported.

    Ive seen the warning posted by Glock but it refers to lead build up. Will shooting one magazine worth of hard cast bullets cause a problem? It never has for me. To stuff a mag of heavy hard cast loads (well tested, of course) for tundra and trail use you should expect full function and reliability and no problems for at least that magazine.

    My intent is to shoot hollow points 99.99% of the time and have a Hard Cast load for worst case, no rifle in my hands woods defense.

    Thanks in advance for your opinions.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



  10. #10
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    Thanks Murphy,

    I know you have shot the Glock quite a bit. I'm not one to pile on a bunch of after market parts without shooting the gun first. I've even decided to shoot it before considering grip mods. The SF feels pretty good in my hand, shooting it should be fun. Comments from posters with real world experience shooting Glocks is appreciated. Thanks for the input form all posters.

    I will put a few rounds through this 10mm later this week. I've purchased Doubled Tap 200gr hard cast, Double Tap 180gr self defense and I've loaded up three recipes 180gr, 20 rounds each to test for target shooting.

    Cheers,

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    With both my G20 and G20SF, I am using 180 cast bullets from Oregon Trails, and I have Lone Wolf barrels for them both. For carry while 4 wheeling and hunting I switch to Buffalo Bore 200 flat nose. So far I have not had any issues with either one of these combs. I did shot one caribou with the G20SF using the BB rounds and it did what it was suppoed to do.
    I have changed out one recoil spring/rod for a stainless steel one but did not change the weight. While the 10mm is a fun gun to shoot, it is NOT for everyone and takes time to master. I also hunt with a Ruger SBK in 44Mag so the recoil of the full load 10's is not bad for me. Want to really have fun, set up bowling pins to shoot with the 10! They bounce around quite well!

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    Quote Originally Posted by AK Bearcat View Post
    Want to really have fun, set up bowling pins to shoot with the 10! They bounce around quite well!
    Sounds like fun. My daughter and I shoot trashed out golf balls with the .204 and .308, they really haul butt when hit well with a .308Win.

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by AK Bearcat View Post
    With both my G20 and G20SF, I am using 180 cast bullets from Oregon Trails, and I have Lone Wolf barrels for them both. For carry while 4 wheeling and hunting I switch to Buffalo Bore 200 flat nose. So far I have not had any issues with either one of these combs. I did shot one caribou with the G20SF using the BB rounds and it did what it was suppoed to do.
    I have changed out one recoil spring/rod for a stainless steel one but did not change the weight. While the 10mm is a fun gun to shoot, it is NOT for everyone and takes time to master. I also hunt with a Ruger SBK in 44Mag so the recoil of the full load 10's is not bad for me. Want to really have fun, set up bowling pins to shoot with the 10! They bounce around quite well!
    Take 2 T posts drive them 20 feet apart; then take a piece of clothes line wire and tie one end to one post, slide 16 wooden spring type clothes pins on the wire and stretch it tight to the other post. Put a saltine cracker in the jaws of each clothes pin. Draw your pistol and clear the pins of crackers as fast as possible, you'll see both hits and misses; As you get better step back a couple of steps. You'll be suprised how many times the crackers win !! This exercise improves both marksmanship and hand-eye cordination, and it's a lot of fun.
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    That does sound like fun. I'm thinking of putting a large bowl of chile under the cloths line.

    Quote Originally Posted by brav01 View Post
    Take 2 T posts drive them 20 feet apart; then take a piece of clothes line wire and tie one end to one post, slide 16 wooden spring type clothes pins on the wire and stretch it tight to the other post. Put a saltine cracker in the jaws of each clothes pin. Draw your pistol and clear the pins of crackers as fast as possible, you'll see both hits and misses; As you get better step back a couple of steps. You'll be suprised how many times the crackers win !! This exercise improves both marksmanship and hand-eye cordination, and it's a lot of fun.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



  15. #15
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    Dan hit all the right points above IMO.

    I only bought a 10mm to shoot stuff that is significantly hotter than the .40S&W ammo my other pistols will shoot. So, I wanted a stronger spring and a barrel that would fully support the case.

    I went with a 22lb tungsten spring/rod combo that adds a little more weight up front and seems to reduce the recoil pretty substantially on the hot loads. If only fire hot loads in that gun and have not had any FTF or FTE. I don't know what would happen if I shot the majority of 10mm ammo, which basically has the same ballistics as a .40 S&W in a longer cartridge. It might not cycle all the way. I have not shot one yet, but perhaps the new Gen4 G20s have fixed that dilemma with the 2-spring system that should allow the proper functioning but also decreased slide/receiver impact with a wider range of loadings.

    Like Dan, I also got KKM barrels, both 6Ē and 4.6Ē. Havenít shot the 4.6Ē one yet, but the 6Ē one shoots way better than stock, at least in my hands. But I also didnít want to have to have even an itty bitty concern over firing hard-cast bullets through polygonal rifling or the less-supported chamber on the stock Glock barrel. The better accuracy of the KKM barrel made me even happier about that decision. Buffalo Bore makes a very hot 180gr JHP that actually shoots as hot as advertised. See http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/10mm.html

    Unfortunately, many of the 200gr and 220gr HC factory loads underperform the published velocities. The closest and most violent one I have found, that comes from a somewhat established operation, is the Buffalo Bore 220gr HCFN loading. Itís advertised at 1,200fps. According to the real-world chrono results Iíve seen, it produces about 1,100fps out of a stock-length barrel, which is still pretty good for such a big bullet (in service-auto terms at least).

    When Iíve shot lately, I have been too lazy to get away from the public ranges, where I canít set up my chrono. I have stocked up a variety of 10mm ammo and am going to go somewhere where I can set up my ProChrono and compare the various velocities out of my 4.6Ē and 6Ē barrels. I might not have the chance to do that until April though.

  16. #16

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    Just shoot it and see what you think. The recoil spring thing gets blown way out of proportion IMO, and aftermarket barrels come with their own special issues. Your sights may hit way high, especially with heavy loads. I did lots of mods to one, and spent a very long time fixing it almost back to stock.

    Use a stock trigger spring, the heavy ones tend to be shortlived. I got maybe 800rds out of the aftermarket one.

    Put a drop of oil on the connector, if you run it dry it will eventually gall and ruin the connector and trigger bar.

    Unless something has changed, the Doubletap stuff doesn't meet their velocity claims. However, I did see a guy getting light Glocksmiles with some DT ammo, so they may be warming it back up.

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