Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 38

Thread: Why scout scopes?

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Los Anchorage
    Posts
    481

    Default Why scout scopes?

    I have been thinking about putting a scope on my guide gun. I was thinking of a 1.5x5 leupold, but then got to looking at a 2.5 scope scope also by leupold. What the the benefits of using a scout scope over a regular scope?

  2. #2
    Member Kay9Cop's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Wasilla, AK
    Posts
    789

    Default

    You can see more of the whole "scene" when looking through a scout scope because you shoot it with both eyes open and it's further out in front of you. I also find it easier to get on target quickly with a scout scope.

    I like the 1.25-4x scout scopes from Leupold, but you have to order them through their custom shop.
    "Beware the man with only one gun; he may know how to use it."

  3. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Anchorage
    Posts
    1,121

    Default

    I know they tout the scout scopes being faster to get on target with both eyes open, but to be honest I can't imagine it being faster than my Leuopld 1.5-5 (on lowest setting and with both eyes open).

    What K9 says about field of view makes sense though- I would like to compare side by side now.
    Just my .02
    BEE

  4. #4
    Member TWB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Wasilla
    Posts
    3,573

    Default Why scout scopes?

    I chose a scout for my 45-70 due to the long eye relief and the fact that I'm not lookin for long range. 150 and under is my field of choice. Fixed power, no bells and whistles.

    Took a dandy black bear this fall while rounding a deep oxbow. I guesstimated around 130yard.
    We do not go to the green woods and crystal waters to rough it, we go to smooth it. We get it rough enough at home; in towns and cities; in shops, offices, stores, banks anywhere that we may be placed

  5. #5
    Member hodgeman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Delta Junction AK
    Posts
    4,055

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by swapdonkey View Post
    I have been thinking about putting a scope on my guide gun. I was thinking of a 1.5x5 leupold, but then got to looking at a 2.5 scope scope also by leupold. What the the benefits of using a scout scope over a regular scope?
    I've used "Scout" scopes for 15 years on a number of rifles...there are several advantages- a load of non-critical eye relief and freeing up space over the action (which can be significant on a bolt gun), you also won't frost the ocular with your breath on winter hunts up here.

    I can shoot with both eyes open on the 2.5x and have dropped game out to 275yds. so I never understood the utility of the newish 1.5-5x IER.

    The biggest advantage to me is speed- it is just a very fast type of sight to use.

    Don't overlook a real disadvantage- when the sun hits the ocular over your shoulder it can wash out the image unlike a conventional scope that will be shaded by your head.
    "I do not deal in hypotheticals. The world, as it is, is vexing enough..." Col. Stonehill, True Grit

  6. #6
    Member 1Cor15:19's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Dillingham, AK
    Posts
    2,482

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hodgeman View Post
    The biggest advantage to me is speed- it is just a very fast type of sight to use.
    Pretty much sums up its greatest attribute IME. It will also move the balance forward and makes handling more natural by being able to grip the rifle around the receiver cleanly. I like'em for some rifles and cartridges, but normally I'm more useful with a classic scope setup.
    Foolishness is a moral category, not an intellectual one.

  7. #7
    Member The Kid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Los Anchorage
    Posts
    1,089

    Default

    They do have the advantage of speed, I explain the use to people who haven't used one as just like a big peep sight, both eyes open and especially with the German #1 reticule which even resembles a front post. If you want to look at some swing by the shop, we have 2.5s with both the post reticule and crosshairs, as well as the 1.25-4 with crosshairs.

  8. #8
    Member hodgeman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Delta Junction AK
    Posts
    4,055

    Default

    I ordered a couple many years ago from Premier Recticle and had the German #1 retrofitted- hands down the best combination. Despite a very thick post- I managed to make some great shots, even groundhogs and what not at longish range.

    I'm not sure if anyone is putting #1s in Leupolds anymore but they're a score if you can find one.
    "I do not deal in hypotheticals. The world, as it is, is vexing enough..." Col. Stonehill, True Grit

  9. #9
    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Tanana Valley AK
    Posts
    7,214

    Default

    Attachment 66271Attachment 66272
    Hodgeman, have you used the post and crosshair (#2) reticle? Sometimes I like them even better than a #1. My favorite though is a 4A, although maybe not in a scout scope.
    ...he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods & errors. ~Thomas Jefferson
    I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief. ~Gerry Spence
    The last thing Alaska needs is another bigot. ~member Catch It
    #Resist

  10. #10
    Member Kay9Cop's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Wasilla, AK
    Posts
    789

    Default

    I have a German #4 in my Leupold scout scope and like it.
    "Beware the man with only one gun; he may know how to use it."

  11. #11
    Member mainer_in_ak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Delta Junction
    Posts
    4,078

    Default

    Another advantage they have is the ability to carry the rifle at the balance point with your thumb over the top of the receiver, you won't tire as quickly. Whereas with a tradtionally scoped rifle, you kind of make your hand into a "U" around the receiver.

    Light rifles shoot better with the scope mounted in the forward position, at least from the offhand. Forward weight does amazing things for the offhand shot.

    Although I don't currently own one, the scout rifle is a genius altercation/concept IMO

  12. #12
    New member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    931

    Thumbs up Scout Scoping Rifles --- Why? --- Pros & Cons

    Quote Originally Posted by swapdonkey View Post
    I have been thinking about putting a scope on my guide gun. I was thinking of a 1.5x5 leupold, but then got to looking at a 2.5 scope scope also by leupold. What the the benefits of using a scout scope over a regular scope?
    I'll preface my response with a couple quick questions regarding what you may be wanting, needing, or requiring from scout set-ups vs. the more standard scope mounting? Are you seeking performance characteristics different from standard scope mounting in terms of practical accuracy? What sorts of ranges are expected? What light conditions are most likely? Is speed on target of real concern? Gun is an important consideration (you mentioned the lever-action short barreled marlin guide gun).

    Keep in mind three ways to go here such as EER & LER optics and variants of superimposed dots/shapes display units on low to no magnification.

    Pros of scout scoping (applies also to electronic dots, holographic types, etc.):
    1.) Rapid on-target acquisition particularly low or no magnification. Thinking speeds... go as low as possible or going with none at all like red dots.
    a.) The prominent factor being shooting with both eyes open for this to be of any advantage.
    b.) In the case of optical scope offerings such as Leupold, Burris and others... it is not all that much faster than something like the standard 1.5-5 variable and not as 'conventionally speaking' versatile for all conditions as the 1.5-5x.
    2.) Higher potential to be continually cued in to your environment around you and to more readily observe then engage other likely targets (think multiple target multitasking). Again both eyes open using low or no magnification.
    3.) Often times (not all however) the entire action of the long gun may be easily accessible from all angles... good for quick manipulation or maintenance to easy carry.
    4.) Could reduce fogging in cold conditions... classic is holding your breath for a clean shot then a big exhale all over the ocular.

    Cons to many of the 'conventional' EER & LER 1" or 30mm scout scopes
    :
    1.) Not all long-guns will be suitable for, compatible with, or benefit from handgun or rifle scout scopes and mounts
    2.) Poor field of view within the scope itself --- even with low magnification.
    3.) Overall brightness regarding light gathering can become an issue.
    4.) Any offering in higher magnification or variables tend to be counterproductive in general with regards to simplicities of the scout concept.
    5.) Not as multipurpose and lacking easy interchangeability as with standard scope mounting
    6.) Unwanted glare --- interfering with an optimal sight picture.
    7.) If you have any issues with scopes vs. eye-dominance (right handed shooter w/ left eye as an example) --- Forget it because it is a both eye open system. You'll be looking at a black hole!
    8.) System's often reliance on big, easy to acquire cross-hairs or posts and such-like --- typically great for hits percentages, yet not all that conclusive for precision groups, working up optimal ammunition/loads, greater distances, etc.

    Hope this helps out folks... & now back to more raft repair. Tiz the season and hope my huffing of raft glues has not influenced my wordage.


    To the original poster:
    I feel the 1.5-5x Leupold standard scope mounting option on a standard Lever-gun is the up-close, far and away better overall multi-use system based on the all important outstanding field of view through the scope. If you had a CO-PILOT or break down lever... I say go the scout option because it makes more mechanical sense from this package.

  13. #13
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Los Anchorage
    Posts
    481

    Default

    Thanks for the info. Here I thought people did it, because it looked cool.

  14. #14
    Member TWB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Wasilla
    Posts
    3,573

    Default Why scout scopes?

    We do not go to the green woods and crystal waters to rough it, we go to smooth it. We get it rough enough at home; in towns and cities; in shops, offices, stores, banks anywhere that we may be placed

  15. #15
    Member hodgeman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Delta Junction AK
    Posts
    4,055

    Default

    Here's one of my scouts with a 100m target.
    The group on the right is 5 shots of Remington 150gr Corelokt.
    The group on the left is 5 shots of Remington "reduced recoil" .308. Same POA.
    Pretty happy considering it was -21F across the hood of a jeep.

    steyrinsnow.jpgtarget.jpg
    "I do not deal in hypotheticals. The world, as it is, is vexing enough..." Col. Stonehill, True Grit

  16. #16
    Member Kay9Cop's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Wasilla, AK
    Posts
    789

    Default

    Scout scopes certainly don't lack for accuracy. I have a .300 WSM Ruger Frontier with a cheap Leatherwood 2-7x scout scope on it that shot an honest .7" five-shot group with 180 grain Accubond handloads.
    "Beware the man with only one gun; he may know how to use it."

  17. #17
    New member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    931

    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by Kay9Cop View Post
    Scout scopes certainly don't lack for accuracy. I have a .300 WSM Ruger Frontier with a cheap Leatherwood 2-7x scout scope on it that shot an honest .7" five-shot group with 180 grain Accubond handloads.
    8.) System's often reliance on big, easy to acquire cross-hairs or posts and such-like --- typically great for hits percentages, yet not all that conclusive for precision groups, working up optimal ammunition/loads, greater distances, etc.

    Some may be misinterpreting my #8... I'll clarify:

    First, accuracy downrange in 'groups' on paper is established by the rifle and the marksmanship. This technically differs from a scopes 'accuracy' so-to-speak that comprises of optical precision, correct cross-hair w/ sight picture alignment, optimal parallax, mechanical repeatability, and overall reliability. Note that this is technically not on-target accuracy downrange and is a shooting aid to do so more effectively. A reputable manufacture scout scope should not have issues here, but it would be interesting to know these things mentioned above to pick the best scope for intended purpose and environment. In other words, I'm not going to go fat post or wire sight pictures at 100+ yard ranges and load development for best groups a rifle will potentially give me. As stated in PROS #1 rapid target acquisition w/ low magnification or none at all is the foremost reasoning for the scout system to produce hits vs. precision groups. If I want fast two eyes open speed... I'll take the fatest posts or wires and even illuminated circles with dots.

    In the case of the Steyr Scout... I know it was cold w/ maybe not the greatest rest and two ammo selections, however at 100m this is marginal precision grouping for both factory loads. Out of that rifle (for whatever the reason being) it was not not an accurate package that day. BUT you made the hits, and in a target acquisition mode to produce hits the system was successful. There is no mention of scope, x setting, or reticule... but I'll guess the groups are representative of my CONS #8

    Regarding the the .7" there is no measure of distance, x setting, or reticule given... BUT it is a good rifle, good cartridge, good projectile, and I'd wager you did your home-brewing on a good load. Some cheaper scopes perform admirably and get the job done.

    Different scopes for different folks... My use of scout scopes has generally been an easier way to better determine accuracy and load potentials for older mil-surplus rifles. These quite often are of infantry bolt designs that lend themselves to the scout system without altering the gun.

  18. #18
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Veneta, OR
    Posts
    1,156

    Default

    "SCOUT" scope philosophy was conceived as a "run and fight" system if I am not mistaken - The late Col. Jeff Cooper brought the concept to the forefront of the topic list years back and talked Steyr into producing a rifle as the namesake - Everything "functional" about the "scout rifle" was tactical in nature and application - As a hunting tool, it would seem to me, to be a matter of personal preference ........ a good choice for up close and personal encounters

  19. #19
    New member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    931

    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by back country View Post
    "SCOUT" scope philosophy was conceived as a "run and fight" system if I am not mistaken - The late Col. Jeff Cooper brought the concept to the forefront of the topic list years back and talked Steyr into producing a rifle as the namesake - Everything "functional" about the "scout rifle" was tactical in nature and application - As a hunting tool, it would seem to me, to be a matter of personal preference ........ a good choice for up close and personal encounters
    The "run & fight" (I believe yet may also be mistaken) was more a gun-writer's take and marketing. The PACKAGE emphasized a carbine (shorter rifle) lighter weight (<7 lbs taking advantage of plastics and new technologies of the 1980s) and simplistic reliability. The rifle had to be handy, light, broad enough utility, in reasonably powerful/available short action, and accessorized/able to achieve practical accuracy <300 yards. In fact, a scope did not have to be a part of the equation. The gun was not tactical like several of today's cataloged production renditions... it was a hunting tool not so much fighting gun concept.

  20. #20
    Member hodgeman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Delta Junction AK
    Posts
    4,055

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Richardson View Post
    The "run & fight" (I believe yet may also be mistaken) was more a gun-writer's take and marketing. The PACKAGE emphasized a carbine (shorter rifle) lighter weight (<7 lbs taking advantage of plastics and new technologies of the 1980s) and simplistic reliability. The rifle had to be handy, reasonably powerful short action, and accessorized/able to achieve practical accuracy <300 yards. In fact, a scope did not have to be a part of the equation. The gun was not tactical like several of today's cataloged production renditions... it was a hunting tool not so much fighting gun concept.
    I agree- the Scout was devised as a generalist's arm (general purpose does include limited combat however) not a military one. Most of the martial aspect was added by gunwriters who wrote about it after the fact (Kokalis?) who often placed it in the "Survival Rifle" niche. After the release of the Steyr, Cooper wrote (somewhat derisively) about folks hanging flash suppressors and bayonet lugs from them and talking about "tactical magazine changes" et al.... He also had a lot of high praise for WWG's "CoPilot" with a forward optic.

    Cooper built and wrote about several prototype scouts prior to the Steyr effort and all we're conceived as primarily hunting rifles- I've held a few of the rifles that came out of the efforts of his associates back then and they were interesting pieces- the Clifton stock was a neat piece of work.

    Cooper hunted extensively with "Lion Scout" (a .350RM) and "Scout IV" (a .308 Ruger ULW).
    "I do not deal in hypotheticals. The world, as it is, is vexing enough..." Col. Stonehill, True Grit

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •