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Thread: Has anyone seen this headline on YahooNews?

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    Member sayak's Avatar
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    Default Has anyone seen this headline on YahooNews?


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    These type of contest have been going on for years not specifically as Coyote killing contest but as predator calling contest
    meats meat don't knock it till you try it

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    Member sayak's Avatar
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    I know, and I believe there is an endless supply of those critters, but again it comes to the big question: do you flaunt hunting and push back at the antis, or do you be discrete and keep it amongst hunters. Honestly, I don't know the answer.

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    Did anyone else notice that ABC News failed to state the title of the contest and instead chose to call it a "coyote killing contest". News outlets that so blatantly voice their agenda is merely preaching to the choir of their readership.

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    Moderator bkmail's Avatar
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    "do you flaunt hunting and push back at the antis, or do you be discrete and keep it amongst hunters. Honestly, I don't know the answer"

    I am proud to be a hunter and will go up against any anti....any day!
    I show it by wearing camo, personalized vehicle plates, supporting the NRA, raising my child to be a hunter, eat what I kill, go to gun/sportsmans shows, etc... Heck ya I'm proud to be a hunter, I think we all should be proud of what we do!!
    BK

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    Quote Originally Posted by sayak View Post
    I know, and I believe there is an endless supply of those critters, but again it comes to the big question: do you flaunt hunting and push back at the antis, or do you be discrete and keep it amongst hunters. Honestly, I don't know the answer.
    whens the last time the antis.. protested a rattle snake round up?
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

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    Member 4merguide's Avatar
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    I understand what both sayak and bkmail are saying. There is a fine line there really. And of course we all are proud of what we do. But there is also a place for being respectful of others.

    For instance.....some "hunters" think it's all fine and dandy to throw a dead deer on the hood of their cars, blood flowing everywhere, and parade it through main street. These "hunters" might say they are proud of their deer too. But to me there is just no logical reason to do that. Unless you want to make a statement to a non-hunter mother that has to explain it to their 2 year old that might see it too.

    Now BK, I'm not saying you do that, but some "hunters" do. And being proud and "flaunting it" are two different things. There are proud and respectful hunters, and there are "Hey look at me....I'm the greatest because I killed this critter"...."hunters" as well.

    Take a guess at which one makes a better impression on the non-hunting society......
    Sheep hunting...... the pain goes away, but the stupidity remains...!!!

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    Moderator bkmail's Avatar
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    As you stated 4merguide, I am a respectful hunter but surely wouldn't back down or be embarrassed about my choices in life.
    We fill our freezer with AK's consumables, grow a garden, and take pride in that.

    Guess I haven't seen anyone driving home with a moose on their hood though so I can't comment on that, LOL!!!
    BK

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    Cool Turn down the volume . .

    Here's my two-cents worth:

    As humanity becomes increasingly urbanized the world over, confronting issues such as climate change, increased demand for fresh water, genetically-modified foods, and much more, we are being forced to rethink our relationships to the natural world on a variety of fronts. Gone are dreams of man's dominance over and control of nature. The question now is how does man live at peace and in harmony with the rest of creation.

    In terms of hunting and fishing in America, the old days of gluttonous killing-for the-sake-of-killing, are over. No more shooting buffalo from railroad trains just for the fun of it, no more barn-sides covered with row upon row of dead waterfowl, no more one hundred fish days. Such antics, which once provoked pride now provoke disgust and horror. All that's left from those days is man's use and need of the animal world as food. Only until and if the world turns vegetarian, that will be the case.

    The divergence in public sentiment between then and now is not whether or not man may and should engage the lower orders of creation for his own use, but rather what constitutes ethical use. While non-hunters/killers understand factory farms, feed lots, and slaughter houses, non-hunters/killers do not comprehend "killing-contests," trophy hunting as ego gratification, catch-and-release fishing in pursuit of thrills and conquest, and much more along those lines.

    Hunters/fishermen/killers need to be aware and respectful of public sentiment. Lincoln once observed that "With public sentiment nothing can fail, without it, nothing can succeed." If we want to see the ability to harvest wild fish and game there for our grandchildren and great-grandchildren, we'll be mindful of how we present ourselves to the non-killing public.

    Instead of a "coyote killing" contest, we might try "SDefend the deer/sheep" contest. The public just might buy into that.

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    Member 4merguide's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bkmail View Post
    As you stated 4merguide, I am a respectful hunter but surely wouldn't back down or be embarrassed about my choices in life.
    Nor would I, nor should we feel we should need to either. I guess I just feel we need to show non-hunters that MANY of us are indeed caring individuals. I absolutely love the animals I hunt. To me, the sound of geese cackling overhead, are reasons to stop everything I'm doing just to listen. Not because all I think of is killing them, but because I love nature. I really think that the non-hunting and anti-hunting community really don't understand this because, to them it is a contraction in terms.....how can you love something and then go about killing it? I guess what I'm getting at is that it would be nice, for a change, for the non-hunting public to see us as stewards of the resource rather than us all being "just killers". I do believe some see us in that light, but then again many others don't, for good reason, because all they see is someone who wants to show off his manhood by killing an animal.

    I'll be the first to say that I have indeed gave out a few warhoos when I've killed an animal, but then again I have also shed a tear or two as well. Either way, I do not take the killing of an animal, ANY animal, lightly.
    Sheep hunting...... the pain goes away, but the stupidity remains...!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by sayak View Post
    Honestly, I don't know the answer.
    I really do believe that most people think/act on their emotions, and don't take the time to see the other side of the coin. Maybe if more people saw coyotes killing and eating deer alive, or maybe watch a video of a cow moose trying to fend off a pack of wolves from devouring her calf, or maybe see a wolf run up alongside a caribou, slash open it's side, and watch all it's guts fall out as it runs away,.....then maybe, just MAYBE more people would start to understand why these animals have to be kept in check.

    I have to laugh though, because all it usually takes to change the mind of an anti/non-killer, is for them to loose "FiFi", their prize poodle, to a pack of yotes. Then it's KILL EM ALL...!!!.....lol
    Sheep hunting...... the pain goes away, but the stupidity remains...!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by 4merguide View Post
    . . I really think that the non-hunting and anti-hunting community really don't understand [a hunter's love of nature] because, to them it is a [contradiction] in terms.....how can you love something and then go about killing it? I guess what I'm getting at is that it would be nice, for a change, for the non-hunting public to see us as stewards of the resource rather than us all being "just killers". I do believe some see us in that light, but then again many others don't, for good reason, because all they see is someone who wants to show off his manhood by killing an animal.

    I'll be the first to say that I have indeed gave out a few warhoos when I've killed an animal, but then again I have also shed a tear or two as well. Either way, I do not take the killing of an animal, ANY animal, lightly.


    I think that's a false dichotomy, 4merguide, in that while killing/loving animals is assuredly a contradiction in terms for anti-hunters/animal rights folks, I don't think that's at all the case for the majority of non-hunters. The non-hunting public really is smarter than that.

    So are most hunters and fishermen:


    “And I don’t seem to fish nearly as much as I used to. I have a dilemma these days: I dislike killing trout but I believe that, in order to fish responsibly, to fish conscionably, the fisherman should at least occasionally kill. Otherwise he can too easily delude himself that fly fishing is merely a game, a dance of love, played in mutual volition and mutual empathy by the fisherman and the trout. Small flies with the barbs flattened are an excellent means for allowing the fisherman’s own sensibilities to be released unharmed—but the fish themselves aren’t always so lucky. They get eye-hooked, they bleed, they suffer trauma and dislocated maxillae and infection. Unavoidably, some die. For them, it is not a game, and certainly not a dance. On some days I feel that it’s hypocritical to profess love for these creatures while endangering and abusing them so wantonly; better to enjoy the thrill of the sport honestly, kill what I catch, and stop fishing when I have had a surfeit of killing. On other days I do dearly enjoy holding them in the water, gentling them as they regain breath and balance and command of their muscles, then watching them swim away. The dilemma remains unresolved.

    “’Yet each man kills the thing he loves,’ wrote Oscar Wilde, and I keep wondering how a person of Wilde’s urban and cerebral predilections knew so god**** much about trout fishing.


    —David Quammen

    Yet each man kills the thing he loves,
    By each let this be heard,
    Some do it with a bitter look,
    Some with a flattering word,
    The coward does it with a kiss,
    The brave man with a sword!

    —Oscar Wilde

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    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4merguide View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by 4merguide View Post
    I understand what both sayak and bkmail are saying. There is a fine line there really. And of course we all are proud of what we do. But there is also a place for being respectful of others.

    For instance.....some "hunters" think it's all fine and dandy to throw a dead deer on the hood of their cars, blood flowing everywhere, and parade it through main street. These "hunters" might say they are proud of their deer too. But to me there is just no logical reason to do that. Unless you want to make a statement to a non-hunter mother that has to explain it to their 2 year old that might see it too.

    Now BK, I'm not saying you do that, but some "hunters" do. And being proud and "flaunting it" are two different things. There are proud and respectful hunters, and there are "Hey look at me....I'm the greatest because I killed this critter"...."hunters" as well.

    Take a guess at which one makes a better impression on the non-hunting society......
    I really do believe that most people think/act on their emotions, and don't take the time to see the other side of the coin.
    +1

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcus View Post

    The non-hunting public really is smarter than that.
    I surely hope so or we're doomed......

    btw...this “’Yet each man kills the thing he loves,’ wrote Oscar Wilde, and I keep wondering how a person of Wilde’s urban and cerebral predilections knew so god**** much about trout fishing.
    really cracked me up.....lol












    Sheep hunting...... the pain goes away, but the stupidity remains...!!!

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    I have an answer that might just simply go a longggg wasy for both sides.....RESPECT... When I deal with the non hunting I choose to simply show them respect.. when I talk about hunting I use words like harvest vs kill, I use a tarp vs the hood of my car. if I share a photo it is not a bloody one and I am not riding the animal like a horse... I just try to keep in mind their views at all times.. And no I do not hide that I am a hunter I just simply realize that they are not so therefore choose not to flaunt it...

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    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
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    "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Bear again."
    ...he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods & errors. ~Thomas Jefferson
    I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief. ~Gerry Spence
    The last thing Alaska needs is another bigot. ~member Catch It
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    Perhaps the days of "deer on the hood" come from a time when many folks from all walks of life hunted. Not all these folks had a pick up to hide the dead animal in. The hood was the most logical place to carry the "harvest" back home from the field.
    4mer.................many 2 year olds see dead animals. What is there to explain? Humans are predators. We are SUPPOSED to hunt. Even agrarian societies still had need for hunting. In many societies, the best hunter was respected, he was the provider for the group. Good hunters should still be respected. They should be honored.
    The answer to Sayaks question is to neither flaunt or be discreet. Just go about your business and if asked answer respectfully. Some folks will never accept killing of animals. They live in a fanciful world. Most will listen, and perhaps understand.
    I can't help being a lazy, dumb, weekend warrior.......I have a JOB!
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    Quote Originally Posted by martentrapper View Post
    The answer to Sayaks question is to neither flaunt or be discreet. Just go about your business and if asked answer respectfully.
    Well put, sir. I think many here are making the same point, but simply using different words to do so.

    As for kids seeing dead animals, I was thinking about this yesterday. My sons (2 and 4) have seen plenty of pictures of dead animals, but those are generally blood-free images. They've also been with us while we butcher meat and we've discussed where meat comes from and why we hunt at length, but that is different than seeing the entire animal. Anyhow, yesterday I had to skin a coyote in the garage and I pondered whether I should invite my son out to watch/help me. I decided to do so, and it was a really good experience. He asked lots of great questions and in the end I think he appreciated learning more about animals and hunting.

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    Member sayak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by martentrapper View Post
    ...neither flaunt or be discreet. Just go about your business and if asked answer respectfully. Some folks will never accept killing of animals. They live in a fanciful world. Most will listen, and perhaps understand.
    I agree, and I too don't apologize for what I love. Still we have an ever-growing majority of people whose perceptions range from not understand hunting, to being antithetical to it. Creating high profile "contests" such as this goes beyond being proud of what one does as a hunter, to effectively poking a stick in the eyes of anti-hunters and others. The rest of us have to deal with the fall-out.
    Don't get me wrong, I don't care about the contest in and of itself. I just think it is foolish to bring attention to such an activity before non-hunters and those who hate hunting. Better to, as Marcus said, package it in a way non-hunters can understand. There are a lot of people who have not made up their minds about hunting and we should do our best to present hunting as a positive American tradition.

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    Quote Originally Posted by martentrapper View Post
    Perhaps the days of "deer on the hood" come from a time when many folks from all walks of life hunted. Not all these folks had a pick up to hide the dead animal in. The hood was the most logical place to carry the "harvest" back home from the field.
    4mer.................many 2 year olds see dead animals. Growing up in Michigan, it was a contest between us kids to see who could count the most deer on vehicles during hunting season. I was visiting them this past spring and we actually reminisced about those days.
    The answer to Sayaks question is to neither flaunt or be discreet. Just go about your business and if asked answer respectfully. Some folks will never accept killing of animals. They live in a fanciful world. Most will listen, and perhaps understand.
    +1 to this

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