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Thread: Tier II Bou unit 13

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    Member AKBassking's Avatar
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    Question Tier II Bou unit 13

    Does anyone know if the Tier II requirements, specifically, the income requirement has been challenged yet?

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    Member ak_powder_monkey's Avatar
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    check out the spring drawing suppliment, the income one isn't on it for this fall but will be next year
    I choose to fly fish, not because its easy, but because its hard.

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    Member AKBassking's Avatar
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    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by ak_powder_monkey View Post
    check out the spring drawing suppliment, the income one isn't on it for this fall but will be next year

    Check this link and then check under "scoring." I believe it is for fall 2007.

    http://www.wildlife.alaska.gov/licen.../tier2supp.pdf

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    Member ak_powder_monkey's Avatar
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    I stand corrected, glad you found the info

    Hmmm maybe I should apply I only make like $10/year and definately depend on subsistance lol
    [/sarcasm]

    That hunt should be a general draw teir II for it is rediculous.
    I choose to fly fish, not because its easy, but because its hard.

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    Member AKBassking's Avatar
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    It seems that every few years they have to screw it up, just a little bit more. ADF&G should just open it up to Alaska residence, require each bou be checked in and when the number is reached, close it.

    That would end a lot of the battles.

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    because they created the teir II system, they'll have a really hard time breaking it down. would rather see it go general draw as well or they'd better apply tier II to just about every area of the state if they can do it to the mat valley area then they outa be doing it to fairbanks, bethel, cold bay, kodiak, sitka coldfoot, point hope geez you name it. they created their own monster and aren't sure how to stop it.
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    Member BRWNBR's Avatar
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    bassking, i think the big fear would be overharvest if they did it that way, if the caribou migration is right, several thousand can be harvested in one day. if they really wanna control the harvest draw is about the only way to really do it effectivily.
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    As long as it is far and equitable. These schemes are getting ridiculous!

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    agreed for sure!
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKBassking View Post
    ....... These schemes are getting ridiculous!
    As long as people are able to manipulate the political system, ridiculous "entitlements" will continue...........

    And likely get more ridiculous........

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    Some of you guys should be a little more knowledgeable about the system.........especially if your livlihood depends on it.
    You can't just DO tier II to an area. There are specific requirements to be met and only when these requirements are met can an area go into.......or out of....tier II. The nelchina herd is actually fairly healthy, but there are so many people depending on, or at least using it, that it will probably never come out of tier II. if all you rich (I'm being sarcastic) anch. guys didn't cry that nelchina was your "subsistence" resource, it might have a chance of coming out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by martentrapper View Post
    .....if all you rich (I'm being sarcastic) anch. guys didn't cry that nelchina was your "subsistence" resource, it might have a chance of coming out.
    People crying is bread and butter for bureaucrats.

    There will always be people crying about Nelchina caribou.

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    Member AKBassking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by martentrapper View Post
    if all you rich (I'm being sarcastic) anch. guys didn't cry that nelchina was your "subsistence" resource, it might have a chance of coming out.
    It should not matter where you live, Anchorage, Nome, Big Lake, Fairbanks etc.

    The Alaska Constitution Article 8 states:

    3. Common Use
    Wherever occurring in their natural state, fish, wildlife, and waters are reserved to the people for common use.

    4. Sustained Yield
    Fish, forests, wildlife, grasslands, and all other replenishable resources belonging to the State shall be utilized, developed, and maintained on the sustained yield principle, subject to preferences among beneficial uses.

    17. Uniform Application
    Laws and regulations governing the use or disposal of natural resources shall apply equally to all persons similarly situated with reference to the subject matter and purpose to be served by the law or regulation.

    So is excluding a individual based on income "uniform application" or "common use" I am not advicating a free for all on the nelchina herd. That is what almost cost the herd in the 70s. But there has to be a better solution than what is out there now.

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    The better solution is making an ammendment to our constitution saying thus

    "If fish and game resources populations are depressed local subsistence users that can show historic customary and traditional use patterns shall have first priority to fish and game" then we can kick out the feds and take control of our fish and game resources and make the teir II system location dependent actually making it a subsistence system as opposed to a lying contest. Plus the Ninilchik Traditional Council wouldn't try to take over the kenai pennisula like its doing now (and the feds are pretty much letting them)
    I choose to fly fish, not because its easy, but because its hard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ak_powder_monkey View Post
    The better solution is making an ammendment to our constitution saying thus

    "If fish and game resources populations are depressed local subsistence users that can show historic customary and traditional use patterns shall have first priority to fish and game" then we can kick out the feds and take control of our fish and game resources....
    Don't have much experience "kicking feds" out of anywhere, do you?

    Plus the Ninilchik Traditional Council wouldn't try to take over the kenai pennisula like its doing now (and the feds are pretty much letting them)
    The Feds being gone would suddenly bring a spirit of oneness into the hearts of the Kenaitze?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ak_powder_monkey View Post
    The better solution is making an ammendment to our constitution saying thus

    "If fish and game resources populations are depressed local subsistence users that can show historic customary and traditional use patterns shall have first priority to fish and game" then we can kick out the feds and take control of our fish and game resources and make the teir II system location dependent actually making it a subsistence system as opposed to a lying contest. Plus the Ninilchik Traditional Council wouldn't try to take over the kenai pennisula like its doing now (and the feds are pretty much letting them)
    You are advocating teir II with lipstick on- "Showing historic customary and traditional use patterns shall have first priority to fish and game" = BS. you just opened another lying game like the one we have now. We need equal access to fish and game - period - I believe that is what the constitution says now. The feds just need to go away but that is not going to happen either. If the game population is depressed the current open drawing system (not teir II) works to regulate the numbers of hunters in a somewhat fair manner.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark View Post
    Don't have much experience "kicking feds" out of anywhere, do you?
    Following the law usually gets em off our backs


    The Feds being gone would suddenly bring a spirit of oneness into the hearts of the Kenaitze?

    It would make it so the state could say no to the NTC instead of the FSB giving them C&T status on fish 100 miles away from their "village."

    And it wouldn't be a lying contest it would be a "I can trace my family to the land for 10,000 years" contest. Or a "I pay 6.50 a gallon for fuel so I can't afford to ship my meat up and should have chance to take game in my back yard over someone else contest" Making subsistence hunts actually for subsistence is the only way to fix the teir II system.
    I choose to fly fish, not because its easy, but because its hard.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by ak_powder_monkey View Post
    Originally Posted by Mark
    Don't have much experience "kicking feds" out of anywhere, do you?
    Following the law usually gets em off our backs
    Which law?

    The Alaska Statehood Act?:

    Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That, subject to the provisions of this act, and upon issuance of the proclamation required by section 8(c) of this Act, the State of Alaska is hereby declared to be a State of the United States of America, is declared admitted into the Union on an equal footing with the other States in all respects whatever, and the constitution formed pursuant to the provisions of the Act of the Territorial Legislature of Alaska entitled, "An Act to provide for the holding of a constitutional convention to prepare a constitution for the State of Alaska; to submit the constitution to the people for adoption or rejection; to prepare for the admission of Alaska as a State; to make an appropriation; and setting an effective date", approved March 19, 1955 (Chapter 46, Session Laws of Alaska, 1955), and adopted by a vote of the people of Alaska in the election held an April 24, 1956, is hereby found to be republican in form and in conformity with the Constitution of the United States and the principles of the Declaration of Independence, and is hereby accepted, ratified, and confirmed.....
    Any other state have "subsistence" to deal with?

    The Alaska Constitution was fine in 1959, but wasn't so good during the passage of ANILCA in 1980?

    Just how does that work?

    It would make it so the state could say no to the NTC instead of the FSB giving them C&T status on fish 100 miles away from their "village."

    And it wouldn't be a lying contest it would be a "I can trace my family to the land for 10,000 years" contest. Or a "I pay 6.50 a gallon for fuel so I can't afford to ship my meat up and should have chance to take game in my back yard over someone else contest" Making subsistence hunts actually for subsistence is the only way to fix the teir II system.
    Whether it's the federal subsistence program or the state program, it's a scam, corrupt, and unnecessary.

    It's a means to control the land. The feds have the upper hand because the federal courts do whatever they please.

  19. #19
    Member ak_powder_monkey's Avatar
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    Why on earth do you think subsistence is a scam? Who needs the game more someone from prince of whales island paying $2000+ to hunt moose in unit 16b or someone in Tyonek going into their backyard to take a moose from their seasonal grocery store? If you think the guy from POW should have priority then you clearly have no regaurd for the human condition.

    As to your question about ANILCA and the state constitution:
    Its because ANILCA was not written until 1980, its sort of like marajuna in this state, you are allowed to have up to 4 oz. in your residence under state law, so no state official can do anything about it whereas a federal offical can arrest you under federal law. You probably knew this, but don't really care because it weakens your aurguement.

    Other states that deal with subsistence give full priority to native tribes, our own uncle Ted made sure that instead of this being the case in Alaska when the law was written the divider would be urban and rural, instead of native non native. The acceptions to this might fall under a few international treatys where only natives can take certain animals (like marine mammals).

    The federal courts do whatever they please because THEY ARE THE HIGHEST AUTHORITY IN DECIDING WHETHER A LAW IS LEGAL OR NOT, THAT IS THEIR JOB.

    You should go take a government class.
    I choose to fly fish, not because its easy, but because its hard.

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    First of all you can thank good ol Jimmy Carter for this mess.

    Second there is a proposal (proposal-38) to include units 13, 14, and 20 into a non-subsistence area. Using the Parks highway on the west, the Richardson, and Glenn highways on the south and east. This proposal will go before the joint fish and game board in the October meeting. Hopefully it will pass.

    Going to an all Native plan is not right either, what about the poor white family living out there right along beside the native family in the village? Are you going to deny him the right to feed his family?

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