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Thread: 17hmr or 22lr for fox

  1. #1

    Default 17hmr or 22lr for fox

    i am new to predator hunting and am going to focus on fox as my first animal. I am thinking my shot will be within 50 yard which would be a better caliber fox fox i have acess to both.thank you

  2. #2
    Member Bsj425's Avatar
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    .17 hmr by far but in those ranges I prefer a shotgun.

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    17hmr by a long shot!

    If you can fight the urge to take long shots the 17hmr is a great fox gun. I have taken a bunch with it myself and called in a couple others for buddies shooting HMRs, the only issues I have seen were on shots past 110-120yds. The HMR is outstanding for collecting pelts if you can keep them inside 100. Much past 100 the killing power fades and you will have wounded fox run off.

    No exits and a tiny entrance. I would highly reccomend making a range finder part of your set up. Settle in and range some landmarks before you call so you can be sure of range and you will do great with it.

    The 22lr works for close head shots but you dont get much in the way of terminal ballistics, and it drops quite a bit as you stretch the range. With the hmr if you can hit the chest cavity inside 100yds it will basically turn the vitals to mush without exiting, and is very flat shooting.

    50yds it is magic, they will tip over dead, and usually the bullet hole is hard to find until you skin them. I think the HMR is the best rimfire round ever.

    I would probably make the choice between the 17 HMR and the 22 mag for a fox gun, and I prefer the .17 myself. Both are excellent calibers and have great bullet selection available. But given your choices definitely the .17.

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    Member 907pride's Avatar
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    I agree that if I had to choose between the two I would take the 17HMR. I have both and have taken fox, lynx, and coyote with the 17 HMR, but my experiences differ from what has been posted already. about 80 percent of the animals I have shot in the chest cavity still run atleast 50 yards before dying. Some have made it much further, and others have never been found after what I thought were solid hits. I've seen lynx and fox do somersaults after being hit and then they just take off. Another issue is that the 17 HMR doesn't let them bleed like other rounds which makes them very hard to track. If there is fresh snow then there is no problem, but if the snow is old and all tracked up I have issues because there is no blood. I would say that I have shot at least 3 lynx that have gotten away, and maybe 5 or 6 fox.

    I have since stopped using the 17 and now only hunt predators with the .243 If I still had to choose between the 17 and .22 then of course the .17 wins every time. The .22 just doesn't have enough speed to give them any kind of shock. Of course this is just my opinion.

    One good example is last year when I called in a lynx for my wife. She was shooting the .17 and at 30 yards she shot it just behind the vitals. It ran off and I tried to find it for about an hour with no luck. I returned to the spot the next day in the light but still couldn't find any blood. It was just by luck that I happened to be following the correct tracks and found it alive under a tree a quarter mile away. I felt bad that it had to suffer all night, and this happens all too often with the rimfire rifles.

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    907pride,
    You may want to give the CCI Gamepoints a try. It sounds like bullets are not making it into the sweet spot. That is definitely one of the short comings of that little 17g Vmax bullet, if you hit the shoulder bones up close you will get splash rather than penetration before that bullet completely fragments.

    I load for three different .17 cal centerfires and I have dumped the Vmax all together. They are great for exploding rodents, but on larger animals up close once they hit something solid they react the same way causing a 2" hole that does not make it through the fur/skin/shoulder bone.

    last year I picked up a couple boxes of the 20g CCI game points for the HMR so hopefully that will help with penetration and still give a controlled expansion similar to a big game bullet. I imagine a few more exits, but with that small pill and the modest speeds of the HMR that should not be much of a worry. I read a review somewhere where someone was using the GP's on large otter with good results, so this may be a great fox/lynx bullet. I will post up some results very soon.

    Also, once you zero that rifle try a few shots from 20yds out to 100 and see where they are printing.

    This issue is a design flaw in my eyes. Same with factory 17 Rem or 17 Fireball ammo, everything is explosive bullets designed for prairie dogs. I contacted Sierra, Hornady and Nosler last season and asked about a .17 soft point with thicker jackets, and of course they all said good idea but don't hold your breath. I also posted up over on Saubier.com and asked since there are a few bullet makers there. HG firearms stepped up and made a limited run last year of 25 and 30g soft point heavy jacket bullets. I have 1K of each and will definitely be using them in my 17 mach IV this year as well as my HMR with GP's. Varmint bullets don't tend to be very fur friendly unless shots are perfect and don't hit much more than rib bones going in.

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    Here's something I just found. Obviously a small informal test but pretty interesting while we were talking ballistics and performance of this little round. This may be just the trick to anchor some of those run offs.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNOFfqcX4V8

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    that is a pretty good video thanks

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    Member Bsj425's Avatar
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    I use .20gr hornady TXP's out of my HMR and they are deadly. I had similar (poor) results with the .17 gr bullets splashing and fragmenting before penetrating.The JHP's (jacketed hollow points) work much better than anything "ballistic" tip as you dont get much splashing.

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    The good ol' 22lr is more than enough inside 50yds. I've used a shotgun once on Fox. I'm from Nome and I did alot of Fox hunting with both calibers, but my custom 77/22 always but them to rest, even around 100yds with one shot. But the 17hmr is a great round for Fox.

  10. #10

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    curious, you guys shooting HMR's having no fire issues in the cold? was out tonight and decided after a set I'd plink a little at a target I brought along for just such purpose. 2 of 4, no fire!!!! Happened last winter also, kinda flustering! Makes the 17 hornet look that much sweeter!!! I THINK its the bolt freezing up and not hittin the case with enough umph to fire. Its dented....I'll try to think to dig them out of the snow next time it happens..... Made me sick to my gut tonight!!!

    for 50 and under, shotgun without a doubt!!! full choke, 4buck buckshot (not 0000) and you'll be a happy camper! most of my sets are brushy, picking up a moving fox is tough at best. A more hesitant yote/cat is a different ball game. I've been known to carry both in the truck depending on where I'm headed or how long I'll be out. Another would be the 22 wmr if you want to stay on the small end. Its not quite as accurate as a 17 but its far more deadly imho! 17's you've got to really pay particular attention to shot selection.

    Better yet, I just need to reload for the ppc and be done with it! Carry the shottie for brush and the 6 for everything else.

  11. #11
    Member WaterWolf's Avatar
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    Trad, I was kinda having the oppiste problem but I think its a spring issue that will be fixed with a new Basix trigger job. I would take it off safety and it would fire.

    Either will do the job but I love my .17 HMR. A 22 Hornet would also be a nice riffle for fox but a lil spendy'er to shoot. I also have an older Remington 5mm that I really like and that ammo is even more costly these days.
    I'm Pro-Pike.

  12. #12

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    Dunno I haven't come to terms with it yet. Last winter I degreased the thing like mad thinking it was freezing up. Didnt seem to matter. Well its begun again today. less than 50% fire. Kinda stumped at this point.

  13. #13

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    What kind of .17HMR are you using TradBow? My Savage fires every time in the cold, including a cold soaked -40F rifle. Did you Brake-Kleen the bolt? Ever since I've started meticulously degreasing every part of my rifles, they work reliably in the cold. I go no lube and use Johnson's Paste wax on the exposed metal to help keep condensate from causing any surface rust when I bring them inside. Works excellent so far.

  14. #14

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    Pete, its my savage fvss...I tried the no lube after cleaning and the bolt immediatly rusted! AND it still froze up grr!!! got it cleaned up, tried some Mpro this last time. I picked up some graphite today and a few other things to try and clean it up, I'll have to try the wax. I'll shoot ya an email tomorrow. btw picked up some bullseye for fire forming tonight.

  15. #15

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    That's crazy Dan, I have the same rifle and have yet to have any type of rusting problems or shooting problems. Did you really spray the bolt good with the brake-kleen? I use a ton of that stuff on them until the dripping stuff comes out clear. Then I put it in the boiler room to get nice and warm and then give it the paste wax coating on the exposed metal.

    Bullseye forming is quick, just be careful transporting your cases. I put small pieces of blue masking tape over them just to be safe and hand place them in the rifle before the forming. Works excellent.

  16. #16
    Member mainer_in_ak's Avatar
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    Sometimes with the mangum rimfires you should remove the firing pin and hone small shoulders onto it. This will ensure that the force of the firing pin is more concentrated. Actually, I'll go a bit further and say that this is the one thing that will fix it.

  17. #17

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    The bolt itself, wasn't bad. But it did keep me from screwing with going dry. I did clean with bc. Picked up another bottle to do it again. You're waxing the bolt itself?

    I will have to get with ya on the fire forming when our schedules line up.

    Mainer, will keep that on on reserve. Hopefully another thorough cleaning will fix things

  18. #18

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    Dan,
    The wax is mostly for when I bring it inside a warm house or car. It keeps condensate from sitting on bare metal. I did this with my PPC and all I did was wipe it down with a cloth each time I brought it in and didn't have a spec of corrosion on it. The fire forming is very simple to do...here's what I did. Expand necks, put in primer, put in 11 grains of Bullseye in the case. Then, carefully hand place that in the gun while aiming it towards the sky. Slowly close the bolt and pull the trigger....Viola...instant fire formed PPC brass. I know guys use wads of grits, paper to put over the mouth of the case, but that's just another messy step that's unnecessary. If you're careful and don't rush it, the method I use works great.

  19. #19

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    i own a marlin 917vs 17 hmr and i must say its an awsome gun for its purpose if they could make a sweet semi auto that worked id be in heaven but that being said the 22 mag is my best over all quick reload and more juice but for fox only id say 17 hands down with 20gr. the rifle i have will put out to 250 yards in a 2.25" group if you know your round but i wouldnt shoot over 125 yards ive had rabbits run that i shot in the head at 50 yards i think it depends on what you your self like as i own many guns doubles in some calibers you can have two semi auto 22's and each will work better for you in different situations. work hard and invest in alot of guns!!! always fun to shoot just for fun

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