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Thread: Developing an up close dangerous game load for 30-06

  1. #1

    Default Developing an up close dangerous game load for 30-06

    Developing an up close dangerous game load for 30-06

    My two favorite cartridges are number one is the 30-06 and second is the 300WB'Y Mag. I am deciding which one I will use if I can arrange a grizzly bear hunt. The 30-06 is a Kimber 8400 Montana (control feed) and the other is a Ruger #1 in 300WBY.

    Years ago when I was a young man in my 20ís we loaded a 250 gr Barnes bullet in front of 50 gr of IMR4350 and we could get out of a 24Ē barrel 2375fps. Now that load was what we all called Thorís Hammer. It hit like the hammer of God. If we sighted it at 3Ē high at 100yds we had a zero of 202yds and a point blank of 250. Of course I canít find any of those bullets today. Sure wish someone had some and would sell them to me. So I am going to try and develop a heavy bullet load with Woodleigh bullets using 200gr protected point, 220gr RN, and their 240gr Protected Pont.

    Loads will be as follows:

    200gr Protected Point in front of 54grs IMR 4350

    220gr Round Nose in front of either 52gr IMR 4350 or 57gr MRP

    240gr Protected Point in front of 50-51grs of IMR 4350

    Now I have never used Woodleigh bullets and what I have read indicates they are accurate and perform very well in a 30-06 and even the 240gr bullet is designed to be used in a 30-06. They are reported from the field by friends of mine in Africa to leave a good wound channel.

    If any of you have had any experience with these bullets let me know and if you have any other ideas on heavy bullets you think should be used from 200-250 and they would perform well at 30-06 velocities up close on a big bear please let me know.
    A GUN WRITER NEEDS:
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  2. #2
    Member Float Pilot's Avatar
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    My old 30-06 (18 inch barrel on a mauser action) carbine liked the 200 grain Speers with 54.3 grains of IMR 4350. I also used the 200 grain Nosler partitions but had to back of a little on powder to make them fly right.

    My CZ-550 Mannlicher style rifle (20 inch) liked the old Hornady 220 grain soft nose with 52 grains of IMR 4350 and a magnum primer.

    I had some 250 grain Barnes solids that somebody gave me. My rifles did not care for them much. I should try some in my lightweight mountain rifle. Maybe it will love them.

    For a stopping round it only has to be accurate out to 50 yards.

    I also use the 220 grain round nose for my old Winchester 1895 chambered in 30-40 Krag. I load em to around 2,050 fps. Maybe I should see if those 250 grain jobs work in there, I only have a few more.
    Floatplane,Tailwheel and Firearms Instructor- Dragonfly Aero
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  3. #3
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    Default 06 for bear

    I think you are on the right track with the Woodleighs, if you are going to use the 06. Between the two, I would use the 06 bolt action before the 300 Wby single shot.

    There is no doubt that any of the Woodleighs 200 gr + will kill a brown bear pretty quick, but they aren't considered stoppers, unless you hit some critical bone, or lucky enough to hit between the eyes.

    I wouldn't intentionally go brown bear hunting with a 30-06, just because I have other choices. But if I had only a 30-06 and wanted to go brown bear hunting, I would go ahead, and I think those 220 gr Woodleighs would be first choice, if they shot accurately in my rifle. I might try out the 200 gr Barnes and see if they shot well in my rifle at the range. I think my confidence in either would be about as high as it could be with a 30-06.

    I recently started working with some heavy Woodleigh bullets in 8x57. That's about the same as the heavies in 06.

    Also I read your post on the single shot. I also use an Encore in 9.3x74R, which I have good confidence in. I practice reloading a lot, and have developed a sequence, which hopefully I don't fumble if I need it in a hurry. I took one bear with a 9.3x62, and only one shot was necessary, but I shot twice anyway. The 9.3x74 has equivilent ballistics, so I know what it will do, if I do my part.

    Like I said, the 06 will do the job. I would choose a heavier caliber, but only because I have the choice.

    KB
    Last edited by Kabluewy; 04-26-2007 at 20:39.

  4. #4
    Member BigHorn Hunter's Avatar
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    Default Fan of the Heavy bullet .30'06

    I have been a heavy bullet .30'06 fan for a long time. Too much reading Hemingway and his tales of his Springfield I guess.

    I have used the 200 and 220 gr Nosler Partition alot. 59 H4831 w/ 200 and 57 w/ 220. 2550 and 2400 fps respectively. I load the 220 Hornady solid with the same load. I just started with some 240 woodlieghs ( I bought all that Midway had left) They recommended 52 H4831sc for 2215 fps. It does 2200 on the nose out of my 21" barreled ULA. At 6 3/4# it kicks like a mule. They do the same out of a 18" mauser pack gun, this is a 6# iron sight gun. No need to comment on recoil. Jeez.

    Oh' by the way I have never recover any of them, not a single one, out of maybe 20 shots on game

  5. #5
    Member Matt's Avatar
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    Are you looking for penetration? If so, bypass the heavier grain .30 cal bullets and go with a 168-grain Barnes TSX.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt View Post
    Are you looking for penetration? If so, bypass the heavier grain .30 cal bullets and go with a 168-grain Barnes TSX.
    I know the TSX can penetrate but the lack of Momentum on a bear and with the light bullet I am left more with energy than Momentum so there is not a balance of both two really be a good killer on big game that is dangerous. It would be like taking a VW and driving it a 1000 miles an hour and hitting a brick house with it. The VW would make it about half way to three quarters of the way through the house before the energy would have torn it completly apart or stopped it because it was so light. Now take a Locomotive and drive it only 60 miles an hour and hit the same brick house and it will go through the house and out the other side and still travel a ways and it will remain in tack. Now I say all of that to illustrate the difference in ways to approach killing game. Small fast bullet that does not have much momentum (like the TRX which will not come apart) but does not break down much of the structure of a large tough animal. Then there is the large slow heavy bullet that on bigger game can collapse much of the structure as it travels through the bigger game but does not shock much if any at all. Now the 30-06 is a cartridge that has enough velocity to throw a fairly good size bullet to not only break down some of a larger animals structure and mess up vitals but it can also and does provide some shock factor. The 30-06 with a 200gr plus bullet moving 2670-2710 is and can be a bad boy on big game if the right bullet is picked.
    A GUN WRITER NEEDS:
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  7. #7

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    To tell you the truth I wish I had a control fed custom 300WBY mag and I could throw a 200gr bonded bullet at 3050fps with accuracy and have both shock from the K/energy and collapse skeletal structure from the momentum of the heavier bullet and have both, but I do not own one and to spend money on having one made would keep me from going on the hunt.
    A GUN WRITER NEEDS:
    THE MIND OF A SCHOLAR
    THE HEART OF A CHILD
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  8. #8

    Default Big Bullet

    I would think a 200 grain Barnes X, 200 grain Swift A Frame or Nosler Partition in 220 grain would be good big bear medicine in a 30-06. Please don't tell anyone I admitted there are other bullets besides a Barnes X that kill big animals. My reputation is at stake!

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt View Post
    Are you looking for penetration? If so, bypass the heavier grain .30 cal bullets and go with a 168-grain Barnes TSX.
    I've got to call you on this. Geez! We've just seen a half dozen knowledgable posts about 200 to 240 grain bullets (which have been used for a century to take all manner of large beasts) And you say a puny 168 grain TSX will out penetrate all of them. The only way that could happen is if the TSX performed like a FMJ (solid).......Hmmmm! I wonder, how many dozen head of game have you taken with a 30-06? How many bears, lions, or buffalo have you layed low with that TSX bullet?
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



  10. #10

    Default 30-06

    I told you what Iím using this spring on another thread Beartooth but Iíll state it again.

    Ruger #1 30-06 S.S. 180g Hornady Interlocks @2900fps (Hornady light mag. ammo) if I canít seem to get one with my bow.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bernie1 View Post
    I told you what Iím using this spring on another thread Beartooth but Iíll state it again.

    Ruger #1 30-06 S.S. 180g Hornady Interlocks @2900fps (Hornady light mag. ammo) if I canít seem to get one with my bow.
    I hope you can get one with your bow and if you do write me and let know all about it. If you don't get one with the bow I do know that a 180gr INterlock moving at 2900 fps is one bad bullet and can knock some stuff down.
    A GUN WRITER NEEDS:
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    THE HIDE OF A RHINOCEROS

  12. #12
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    An up-close dangerous game rifle is not a .30'06.

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitroman View Post
    An up-close dangerous game rifle is not a .30'06.
    Oh really, four times I have had them come at me, 1. 450 pound russian bore Darbon Swamp at 20yds out of thicket and I droped him with my 30-06 and a 250gr barnes in 1974, 2. one lion on her way at 30 steps 220gr round nose hit her just at 25yds Tanzania 1988, 3. 365 pound razor back in north east Lousisana in 1990, 200gr SBT coming straight at me 45 yrds, 4. 320 pound wild hog in Pascaguola Swamp 35 yds 200gr Par. 2002 at 12yds. All one shot stops. LET ME SAY THAT AGAIN one shot stops!!! Of course you can give me proof that the 30-06 is not a stopper? No you can't because if you were using one and it did not stop one of the above you would be dead or crippled for life. Please do not come with that nonsense again, it is obvious you do not know what you are talking about. R.M. Hanson and Jim Stewart used them to stop big bears and they both have killed more dangerous game with the 30-06 than you or I will ever see. Grancel Fitz was almost never to be found in the field without his trusted 30-06 and he killed a lot of Grizzly up close with a 220 gr bullet out of his 06. One of if not the greatest Alaskan guide Hosea Sarber who was also a warden killed more Grizzly according to Jack O'Connor than he had ever seen. I know one thing Nitroman, you ain't Jack O'Connor and you sure are not speaking from experience.
    Last edited by beartooth; 04-27-2007 at 20:27.
    A GUN WRITER NEEDS:
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    THE HEART OF A CHILD
    THE HIDE OF A RHINOCEROS

  14. #14

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    My vote would be for something in the 200 grain A-Frame or TSX flavor for those purposes, something that would really hold together.However, I would not consider the 30-06 a bear stopper it can be a good bear killer but if your talking up close and personal there are better calibers out there that can do a better job STOPPING a bear. 600+ lbs of unrationally pissed off adrenaline doesn't stop so easy!

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlaskaCub View Post
    My vote would be for something in the 200 grain A-Frame or TSX flavor for those purposes, something that would really hold together.However, I would not consider the 30-06 a bear stopper it can be a good bear killer but if your talking up close and personal there are better calibers out there that can do a better job STOPPING a bear. 600+ lbs of unrationally pissed off adrenaline doesn't stop so easy!
    Yes, I agree with you, and it is not my desire to stop a 600pound bear up close with my 30-06 but if I had to I sure would try. Yes there are better cal to do this with and I am considering them. I think the A-Frame for the 30-06 would work real well considering the velocity envolope for the 30-06. The 30-06 is not the best choice and I have never believed that it was but it is a choice non the less. Good comment at this time in the thread AlaskaCub. thanks.
    A GUN WRITER NEEDS:
    THE MIND OF A SCHOLAR
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    THE HIDE OF A RHINOCEROS

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlaskaCub View Post
    My vote would be for something in the 200 grain A-Frame or TSX flavor for those purposes, something that would really hold together.However, I would not consider the 30-06 a bear stopper it can be a good bear killer but if your talking up close and personal there are better calibers out there that can do a better job STOPPING a bear. 600+ lbs of unrationally pissed off adrenaline doesn't stop so easy!
    AlaskaCub, in light of where we are in this thread, how do you feel about the 300WBY mag with a heavy bullet as opposed to the 388 Win. and also the 340WBY mag?? There are many in Africa that like the 300WBY for pulling alot of duty on many heavy and dangerous game. What would your response be to my question?
    A GUN WRITER NEEDS:
    THE MIND OF A SCHOLAR
    THE HEART OF A CHILD
    THE HIDE OF A RHINOCEROS

  17. #17

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    As to your question

    I would say that either of the cartridges you have mentioned are fine for hunting grizzlies with. A quality bonded (A-Frame or TBBC) or solid bullet (TSX) will do some serious damage with either at 50-200 yards. I wouldn't hesitate to do what you describe with either gun. I took a 300WM with 200 grain A-Frames with me to the Pen last spring to hunt brown bears but I also had buddies with me shooting a 338WM and a 375H&H so my 300 WM for my purposes was plenty. The 300 WTBY is obviously packing quite a bit more umph than the 06 so thats a given but the single shot capability would worry me a little. I havent hunted grizzlies much but I have killed quite a few black bears with a 30 cal of some variation (30-06, 300WM) and even they will sometimes absorb more lead than you'd think. They might only run 50-100 yards but they did not drop in their tracks so to speak. IMO for hunting purposes the 30's are fine for griz given good bullet choice and proper shot placement. I would probably avoid the single shot myself, just because you might need a second shot to anchor the bear or to cover your azz!

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlaskaCub View Post
    As to your question

    I would say that either of the cartridges you have mentioned are fine for hunting grizzlies with. A quality bonded (A-Frame or TBBC) or solid bullet (TSX) will do some serious damage with either at 50-200 yards. I wouldn't hesitate to do what you describe with either gun. I took a 300WM with 200 grain A-Frames with me to the Pen last spring to hunt brown bears but I also had buddies with me shooting a 338WM and a 375H&H so my 300 WM for my purposes was plenty. The 300 WTBY is obviously packing quite a bit more umph than the 06 so thats a given but the single shot capability would worry me a little. I havent hunted grizzlies much but I have killed quite a few black bears with a 30 cal of some variation (30-06, 300WM) and even they will sometimes absorb more lead than you'd think. They might only run 50-100 yards but they did not drop in their tracks so to speak. IMO for hunting purposes the 30's are fine for griz given good bullet choice and proper shot placement. I would probably avoid the single shot myself, just because you might need a second shot to anchor the bear or to cover your azz!
    Yes, when I shot that black bear last Oct. he did not even know I was there til I hit him and I made a heart lung shot and he still turned towards me and came 30yds in my direction before he fell dead. What we are say then is unless I buy a new rifle in 300WBY (bolt) I would have to possibly find myself in a situation with my 30-06 (Which I would use a Woodliegh 200-240gr bullet) of up close hoping I could get enough rounds in the bear before he got to me. I have never faced a grizzly and I really think it would be more serious than facing a lion if he was really ticked off. Well I will admit it is exciting just to think about it. I will have to get serious now and set myself up a hunt. Nitroman might just have a point to some degree when it comes to a big bad mad griz. I think I will let this thread rest from me and I have a lot of thinking to do as well as a lot of planning. I really did get a lot from this thread. Until later just beartooth
    A GUN WRITER NEEDS:
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  19. #19
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    Use the 06 with 220gr Nosler partitions. That's what I carry for my NEF Handi rifle. Yes I hunt everything including Grizzlies with a single shot. Have only needed a second shot twice in 50 years of hunting. And have stopped two charging Grizzlies, and one Moose. The Moose was one of those second shots. He almost got me. Glad the Handi has ejectors.

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Graybeard View Post
    Use the 06 with 220gr Nosler partitions. That's what I carry for my NEF Handi rifle. Yes I hunt everything including Grizzlies with a single shot. Have only needed a second shot twice in 50 years of hunting. And have stopped two charging Grizzlies, and one Moose. The Moose was one of those second shots. He almost got me. Glad the Handi has ejectors.
    It is apparent that you have experience in Alaska with big and dangerous game. Mine has only been in Africa (lion) and South Misssissippi Charging Hog (450 pounds). I thank you for your post because it only confirms my thoughts that with the 30-06 and the right bullet it will do the job even when the going gets tough. Thanks just beartooth
    A GUN WRITER NEEDS:
    THE MIND OF A SCHOLAR
    THE HEART OF A CHILD
    THE HIDE OF A RHINOCEROS

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