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Thread: z drag for moose?

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    Default z drag for moose?

    Looking at cutting down my equipment carried and have never had an occasion to use my come-along. Anybody with a lot of experience with z-drags? I have used them a bit using just carabiners as a pulley. How much better would real designated pulleys work? I have found carabiners work ok with slick rope and 3-1 ratio. I wonder if pulleys would be much better and worth carrying. If so what is a good source?

    Biggest problem I have had is rope stretch which can be a problem with a heavy load. Other than the expense of a Spectra line are there any good slippery synthetics that don't stretch much?

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    webmaster Michael Strahan's Avatar
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    I have always carried pulleys and carabiners, together with plenty of no-stretch spectra prusik cord and rope. The light-weight rescue pulleys are worth their weight in gold. For the carabiners, I would use locking ovals. If you use gated pulleys it's probably best to double them with the gates on opposite sides, to avoid ropes coming out. Prusick cord is for securing your pulleys to deadfalls, trees, boulders and even clumps of brush. On float hunts I keep my lines in a dry bag to avoid moisture-related issues, and I hang them up between hunts, to keep them dry. Four pulleys and eight 'biners should do the trick in most cases. I've never had to pull a critter out of the creek with this gear, but it has been handy for moving boats over logjams at times. Saved us hours of portaging...

    And finally, "don't shoot it in the water!"

    Hope it helps!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Strahan View Post
    I have always carried pulleys and carabiners, together with plenty of no-stretch spectra prusik cord and rope. The light-weight rescue pulleys are worth their weight in gold. For the carabiners, I would use locking ovals. If you use gated pulleys it's probably best to double them with the gates on opposite sides, to avoid ropes coming out. Prusick cord is for securing your pulleys to deadfalls, trees, boulders and even clumps of brush. On float hunts I keep my lines in a dry bag to avoid moisture-related issues, and I hang them up between hunts, to keep them dry. Four pulleys and eight 'biners should do the trick in most cases. I've never had to pull a critter out of the creek with this gear, but it has been handy for moving boats over logjams at times. Saved us hours of portaging...

    And finally, "don't shoot it in the water!"

    Hope it helps!

    -Mike
    Well of course it did. Also found this

    http://www.survivalmonkey.com/thread...to-lift.31334/

    Went ahead and did the Mountain Equipment order...they have a handy pulley called the petzl ultra legere pulley that fits into an oval carabiner. The biner then acts as the axle of the pulley. Pretty slick. I cheaped out and bought the ungated carabiners at 1/3 the cost, Also bought 100 feet (31 meters) of low stretch mountaineering "static" line in 7mm for the main line (1000KG breaking) and 20 feet (6 m) of 5mm for the prusik cords. The main line will be a bit thin but they were out of 8mm and I didn't want the weight of the 11mm. It came to around 100.00 and should come it at 3 pounds or so complete. All I need to do now is practice. 3-1 I know. Getting the 6 and 9 in my head and hands will take some applied thinking.

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    Here in the Yukon the hunting pressure is probably a bit less then in Alaska with your higher population and so I haven't been forced to fly in or buy a packraft and hike somewhere then float on an obscure stream that no one else has ever seen to get away from the competition. Therefore I haven't had to practice much weight discipline. The big Hudson Bay Freighter allows me to take a lot of extra crap and still bring a moose home.

    My wife and kids and I read Mike Clelland's Ultralight Backpacking Tips and it has revolutionized our thinking. I love gear. If you saw my garage you'd know. However on a trip excess gear can become a nuisance. You keep having to move everything even on an easy float hunt. We have started to examine everything and have shed a lot of weight off our stuff. 7 pound come along gone..... replaced by less than 1 pound of carabiners and pulleys. The rope (or line when it's in a boat) is a wash as you need it anyway.

    Lawn chairs gone....canoe back supports at less than a pound and more pounds gone.... My beloved wooden Wannigan...gone.... Waterproof 30 liter barrel hello, replacing my high power variables with 2-7X's not only saves a bit of weight but the bear shotgun get's replaced by the rifle with the scope set at 2X. Another 8 pounds gone. Haven't given up the Optimus 111 but the old dragonfly looks good and would shed another 2 pounds, canvas tent gone, Backpacking 4 man tent at less than 7 pounds and I save another 13 pounds. Goodbye canned goods and MRE's, hello dried foods. My repair kit was another item that has shed a lot of weight and on it goes. Sentimentality out and steely practicality in.

    Funny thing is I don't miss the stuff we are leaving at home and I really enjoy being less encumbered. If something doesn't have multiple uses we look at it with a very serious look....DO we NEED this? If the answer is probably not and it isn't a safety issue we leave it at home.

    Funny thing is now that I see what little you really need the idea of that fly in hunt or crazy portage and go is looking more attractive. Now if I can continue to peel away my own body weight I might have a few more adventures in me. Larry Bartlett's crazy videos still get the 52 year old juices going. Who knows?

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    A ratchet strap can be used in a pinch. Dual use.

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    Member AKDoug's Avatar
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    Yes, I have used a Z-rig to pull a moose out of the water. Two 250# guys can move an amazing amount with a Z-rig, but it's pretty hard going with a moose. Still got it in a place where we could work on it. A Z-rig combined with a rope come-a-long can move an amazing amount. I use rescue rope combined with big rescue pulleys. It's heavy kit, but I also use it with my ATV.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKDoug View Post
    Yes, I have used a Z-rig to pull a moose out of the water. Two 250# guys can move an amazing amount with a Z-rig, but it's pretty hard going with a moose. Still got it in a place where we could work on it. A Z-rig combined with a rope come-a-long can move an amazing amount. I use rescue rope combined with big rescue pulleys. It's heavy kit, but I also use it with my ATV.
    Playing with string and paperclips to test different configurations. You can get to 9-1 but it would need a fair bit of rope. 6-1 looks practical, 3-1 is easy as pie. This is a pretty cool system. Reminds me that my old teacher Mors Kochanski taught us how to make a bush winch (flip flop winch) out of two poles and a rope. Need to start practicing again. **** I need more rope.

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    Moderator Daveinthebush's Avatar
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    Back in NY I had a couple of these. Light weight, great capacity. Fairly good price. With a 4,000 pound capacity you should be able to move many different items.


    http://www.cabelas.com/product/Hunti...3Bcat104350680

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    The flip flop winch. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYQPi4Gj9z0

    Thanks for the block and tackle link.

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    I carry a ratchet rope all year round, and haven't found a need to drop it's weight from the canoe. It was used to recover two snow machines out of a creek (last december). We used it on this year's moose too. Although I have pulled a moose out of water with it, this year it was used for turning the big bull over and for holding his legs open. After cutting a few log jams, I also used it to pull the logs out of the way so I could get the canoe near the downed bull. I like the rope-along because it's only limited to the length of rope you bring. Some guys on the forum talked of buying expensive synthetic winch line (with some 8,000 lb capacity), but the ratchet rope has a rating far less than that, so it's a waste of money in my opinion. Any 1/2" braided rope has worked for moving a moose, snow machines, or a canoe off a gravel riffle. I've yet to find a recovery or pulling device more useful for an entire year of canoeing/snowmachining.
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    I have not used one of these seen it at an outdoor show and it looked like a pretty good setup.

    http://www.akcooltools.com/hitchmaster.html

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    Moderator Daveinthebush's Avatar
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    I think this is a good thread on practical ways to move something. Great ideas so far guys. I hope they keep coming.

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    Quote Originally Posted by akdd View Post
    I have not used one of these seen it at an outdoor show and it looked like a pretty good setup.

    http://www.akcooltools.com/hitchmaster.html
    That's ingenuous! Now does it work?

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    Default Rope a long

    I'm also in the rope-a-long category. It's in my ATV for those trips and in my canoe for those.

    A year ago I single-handedly moved an entire (not yet field dressed) moose over 100 yards with it, over snow that was too deep to walk over without post holing. I did not use any snatch block or other similar doubling technology.

    I got my rope a long and rope for it both from AIH. They have one particular type of rope they suggest that does not stretch and is rated at 5K pounds I think. Works great. I wouldn't be without mine.

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    you must me a big strong men to do that , as I am not a small man , I would have at least gutted it out frist

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    Default Not that strong

    Quote Originally Posted by Sid View Post
    you must me a big strong men to do that , as I am not a small man , I would have at least gutted it out frist
    Wasn't in a place where it could be field dressed; wish that it were. The rope a long has a handle the is like 18 or 20 some inches long; for every throw of the handle I felt like I only got maybe a quarter inch. Three hours later it was moved. I roped to a series of larger trees along the way instead of one long pull - maybe I did 4 pulls - don't remember. Yeah, it was exhilarating. ;-)

    In no way interpret that I'm saying the rope a long is fun. Its not. But it seems to get every haul job done for me. Except what I can reach with a 4 wheeler winch; that's the right way to do it when you can (what, like never).

  17. #17

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    I realize this is an old thread but the info is timeless. I also have the rope-a-long that I always take with us when my wife and I snowmachine into our remote cabin. So far we have never needed it yet. I have nylon rope for it which I know stretches a lot. I'm curious if you know more about that rope that you got from AIH. That sounds like good stuff to have for dragging the canoe over beaver dams or log jams. Do you happen to know what it is made of and what it is called? A less stretchy rope would be better for non snowmachine use but I still prefer stretch most of the time with stuck snowmachines.


    Quote Originally Posted by FamilyMan View Post
    I'm also in the rope-a-long category. It's in my ATV for those trips and in my canoe for those.

    A year ago I single-handedly moved an entire (not yet field dressed) moose over 100 yards with it, over snow that was too deep to walk over without post holing. I did not use any snatch block or other similar doubling technology.

    I got my rope a long and rope for it both from AIH. They have one particular type of rope they suggest that does not stretch and is rated at 5K pounds I think. Works great. I wouldn't be without mine.

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    For local hunts, I carry a skate of halibut ground line (1800 feet) in my pickup along with a snatch block. Hang the block on a tree by the road, or on another vehicle and take off. I have pulled many moose out of the woods this way. Sometimes quite a distance. I choke them around the neck and then half hitch the nose. They hang up less this way. Yard them out with the pickup. A big bull might need the rack removed to do this if hang ups are a problem. I love getting them home whole to do the butchering in my shop.
    Really like the idea of carabiners and rope to get them out of a tough spot.
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