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Thread: Using Citric Acid instead of Salting a Cape/Hide???

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    Default Using Citric Acid instead of Salting a Cape/Hide???

    Does anyone know if I could use citric acid spray to stabilize a well-fleshed and turned moose cape enough to keep it from slipping?
    If I killed one on the first day out, it would be in the field for nearly 2 weeks... last half of September, so we should have pretty cool nights. I could salt it heavy after we fly out, but we are limited to 100lbs of personal gear... I can't see how to take salt in there.

    What about a black bear hide? I know they're harder to keep, but would citric acid even help?

    Thanks for any responses, Zane

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    webmaster Michael Strahan's Avatar
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    Citric acid will not cure a hide, nor will it keep the hair from slipping. You need to use salt.

    -Mike
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    Moderator stid2677's Avatar
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    I used a product call STOP ROT, it is a liquid. I took about a pint to treat my sheep cape. I turned it in to the taxidermist 7 days later and never salted it. I did care for the hide as if it was meat.

    For your reading.

    http://www.taxidermy.net/forums/Tann...68C85301F.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by stid2677 View Post
    I used a product call STOP ROT, it is a liquid. I took about a pint to treat my sheep cape. I turned it in to the taxidermist 7 days later and never salted it. I did care for the hide as if it was meat.

    For your reading.

    http://www.taxidermy.net/forums/Tann...68C85301F.html
    Thank you very much! That's what I was hoping to find!

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    webmaster Michael Strahan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stid2677 View Post
    I used a product call STOP ROT, it is a liquid. I took about a pint to treat my sheep cape. I turned it in to the taxidermist 7 days later and never salted it. I did care for the hide as if it was meat.

    For your reading.

    http://www.taxidermy.net/forums/Tann...68C85301F.html

    This sounds interesting. How did you find out about this product, and what did your taxidermist have to say about it? Who is your taxidermist?

    -Mike
    LOST CREEK COMPANY: Specializing in Alaska hunt consultation and planning for do-it-yourself hunts, fully outfitted hunts, and guided hunts.
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    Moderator stid2677's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Strahan View Post
    This sounds interesting. How did you find out about this product, and what did your taxidermist have to say about it? Who is your taxidermist?

    -Mike
    I heard about it from a taxidermist in Fairbanks that was using it to help save capes and hides that he was getting in that was marginal. He said the stuff was amazing. Did a ton of research and the reviews from taxidermist was impressive.

    More reading...

    http://www.hidetanning.net/StopRotMammal.html

    http://www.hidetanning.net/STOP-ROTarticles.html
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    Sponsor protaxidermy's Avatar
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    Citric acid creates a hard shell on the upper flesh of the skin & does NOTHING to actually set the hair follicles within the epidermal layer of the skin.

    Stop Rot has a chemical tanning agent in it & yes it will work in SOME cases but Not in all, So will Liquitan, & so will Denatured Alkohol.

    When Glen Connelly first introduced Stop Rot , its sole purpose was to Set hair follicles that were already at risk of slipping & to prevent further damage.

    NOT to replace salting & propper fleshing.

    Salt is the BEST thing to use so why experiment with some unproven chemical or other thing that someones Grandpa used to use.

    I have tanned all of our studios skins since 1996 when I started into taxidermy & I have had people use, Turpetine, Black Pepper, Pine needdles, Sugar, Citric Acid & several other things on there TROPHY capes & skins because Someone told them it worked once for them.


    When in reality the skin probably fell aprt or slipper of terribly & rather than lose the job , the taxidermist probably just put anouther cape on the mount. No questions asked.

    Salt is & PROPPER fleshing is the proven best hair & skin drying agent.

    For Fur drying you can get away with PROPPER fleshing & Air drying, but those skins will need to be handled a different way in the tanning proccess & in some cases , Air Dried skins will not be suitable for a taxidermist to mount.

    You can Also SALT the outside areas of your meat in the field & it will keep the bugs off of the meat too.


    I would Much rather take a little salt & leave something else behind, than go out & bust my butt, only to ruin my Trophy skins with an experiment.

    RJ Simington
    PRO Taxidermy

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    Member broncoformudv's Avatar
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    If you have a 100 pond weight limit there is plenty of weight to add some salt and cut something else out. Maybe leave the 6 pack at home?

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    Quote Originally Posted by broncoformudv View Post
    If you have a 100 pond weight limit there is plenty of weight to add some salt and cut something else out. Maybe leave the 6 pack at home?
    What? now that's just crazy talk!!!!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frostbitten View Post
    What? now that's just crazy talk!!!!!!!
    Yeah I have been told that a time or two on this very forum when guys start complaining how they are limited by weight on flights and can't bring the kitchen sink.

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    Member tboehm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by protaxidermy View Post
    NOT to replace salting & propper fleshing.

    Salt is the BEST thing to use so why experiment with some unproven chemical or other thing that someones Grandpa used to use.

    Salt is & PROPPER fleshing is the proven best hair & skin drying agent

    PRO Taxidermy
    So How much salt would you say is REQUIRED for a sheep hunt? How many times and how often do you need to re-salt the cape? In doing so how long will that salting cause the cape to be OK prior to getting it to you?

    Do you recommend that salt substitute?
    Semper Fi and God Bless

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    a 5 pound bag of salt will adequetly be enough for a Sheep cape.

    Flesh & turn the cape , INCLUDING , Ears, Lips, Nose.

    Then spread the salt evenly on the fresh skin, being sure to get salt in EVERY fold & around the ear bases, & rub the salt in a little to EVERY part on the skin.

    Leave the skin out hair down to let the salt start to penetrate . Make sure it doesnt get rained on.

    This will make pools of water that are from the skin. Carefully scoop off the water & smear some of the looser salt again over those areas.

    After the second day of being salted, you can shake off the loose salt & hang it over a brack or something to let it drip off.

    Dont fold it up for storage ( Unless it is going right to the taxidermist ), until the skin is dry or you could create mold that will damage the skin.


    A Properly salted skin can be kept for years, unlike a dry tanned cape.

    A Wet tanned Frozen cape will also last for ever as long as it is not allowed to dry for too long.


    Any other questions, just ask or call me.


    RJ Simington
    PRO Taxidermy
    877 281 0936

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    webmaster Michael Strahan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by protaxidermy View Post
    ...When Glen Connelly first introduced Stop Rot , its sole purpose was to Set hair follicles that were already at risk of slipping & to prevent further damage....
    Hmmm... I wonder if Stop Rot would keep the follicles on my head from slipping hair? I haven't tried fleshing and salting (sounds painful), and I'm not sure I would like the leathery texture I would get with TTC. Maybe Stop Rot would keep me from balding? Hmmm...

    -Mike
    LOST CREEK COMPANY: Specializing in Alaska hunt consultation and planning for do-it-yourself hunts, fully outfitted hunts, and guided hunts.
    CLICK HERE to send me a private message.
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    Sponsor protaxidermy's Avatar
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    Never know, you might look like a jungle man after using it on your head.

    Side effects,

    Diarea
    stomacke cramps
    extreeme headache
    possible heartattack
    blurred vision
    But it might work, LOL.

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    Member tboehm's Avatar
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    RJ - I don't ever recall reading your thoughts on TTC. What is your opinion and experience with it?
    Semper Fi and God Bless

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    webmaster Michael Strahan's Avatar
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    Might be a good idea to have a look at our page on salting instructions for the field. HERE'S THE LINK! It's a brand-new page, so if anyone has ideas for it, drop me a line, okay!

    Thanks!

    -Mike
    LOST CREEK COMPANY: Specializing in Alaska hunt consultation and planning for do-it-yourself hunts, fully outfitted hunts, and guided hunts.
    CLICK HERE to send me a private message.
    Web Address: http://alaskaoutdoorssupersite.com/hunt-planner/
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    "I have climbed my mountain, but I must still live my life." - Tenzig Norgay

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    The only reason to use citric acid on your capes is to prevent fly hatch in the tight spaces of the nostrils, sinus cavities, and spinal cord/brain areas. The citric acid will lower the pH and prevent maggots from developing.

    The only other purpose for citric acid on the hides themselves is to slow down bacterial growth for a day or two (at most), but it will not prevent hair slippage. For proper care of your hide hair, use salt ONLY after you've properly fleshed the meat and membranes that harbor fluid next to the skin. Only after fleshing the hide and removing the skull, caring for the sensitive facial structure, should salt be applied to draw out the moisture, thereby expediting osmosis and eventual drying.

    It's also a myth that citric acid causes crust development on meat surfaces. Citric acid is applied with water, which must be aired out to properly seal the surface and allow crust formation...and only wind and continuous ventilation will aid in crust development.

    Citric acid will cause the surface of meat to turn slightly gray, but proper trimming reveals the fresh inner surface of your game meat.

    We use citric acid applied in the nostrils and brainstem while we flesh the hides, and sometimes it's a day or two (at most) before we get the skull out and begin to work the facial structures. The sooner the better, of course, but proper fleshing takes time and patience...only then is salt used.

    larry

    P.S. Mike, i would pay good coin to see your skull cap after you apply generous layers of stop-rot or TTC...might be you have a good idea for a new field trial...LOL...good luck with that bud.

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    Thanks guys! Good info.
    I haven't even put all my stuff together and weighed it for this trip yet... might be, I'll have plenty of room for salt.
    I used to do some taxidermy and I know full well how important salting is, but I had never heard of citric acid before 6 months ago.
    Just thought it might work in a pinch.

    PS... Thanks for the book on float hunts, Mr Strahan. I'd be having a very tough time planning this hunt without it!

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    Member Erik in AK's Avatar
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    Larry touched on it but the reason we salt capes is salt draws moisture out of the hide and shrinks the hair follicles, locking the individual hairs in place. The reason we flesh the hide first is to remove tissue that would impede the action of the salt. Kind of like scraping and sanding before applying primer.
    If cave men had been trophy hunters the Wooly Mammoth would be alive today

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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Bartlett View Post
    The only reason to use citric acid on your capes is to prevent fly hatch in the tight spaces of the nostrils, sinus cavities, and spinal cord/brain areas. The citric acid will lower the pH and prevent maggots from developing...
    Larry,

    Salting the cape does the same thing. That's why it's not necessary to apply citric acid to a hide. You're going to flesh and salt it anyway. In rare cases where a head is left in the cape (weekend hunters who are going to rush to the taxidermist anyway), they could consider packing the eyes and mouth with salt to keep the flies off, but since the cape is going to be removed in a couple of days anyway, it's probably not necessary. And I would not leave the skull in for more than a day, especially if the weather is warm.

    Sorry for the delayed response, I just saw that.

    -Mike
    LOST CREEK COMPANY: Specializing in Alaska hunt consultation and planning for do-it-yourself hunts, fully outfitted hunts, and guided hunts.
    CLICK HERE to send me a private message.
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