Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 28

Thread: Bear charge survey

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    69

    Default Bear charge survey

    I know this subject has been beat to death as far as what caliber to use, but I'm wondering something a little different.

    Did you fire a warning shot into the ground in front of the bear? (If so, how many shots?)

    How many times did you have to shoot at the bear during the charge? (If in a group, list each shooter separately.)

    Did it charge more than once?

    Did you actually hit the bear or was muzzleblast that turned the charge?

    What range were your shots at?

    I'm looking for input from first hand experiences only. I'm sure we all have a brother-in-law who has shot 12 times in six seconds with his muzzleloader.

    Let me tell you what I'm thinking:
    The receiver on a pump shotgun is approximately 9" long, with a barrel length of 18.5", and the stock being approximately 11" long you get an overall length in the realm of approximately 38.5 inches. I have a side-by-side 12ga with 18.5" barrel, 3" receiver, and an 11" stock and you get an overall length of 32.5".

    Professional Hunters in Africa use doubles for back-up guns because that second shot is just a trigger pull away. There's no chance of me short-stroking the SxS (like you can with a pump) and jamming after the first shot. And the double is 6" shorter than the pump (handier in the brush). Does anybody up there use a short double as a bear defense gun?

  2. #2
    Member Alaskacajun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    318

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Deathray7 View Post
    I know this subject has been beat to death as far as what caliber to use, but I'm wondering something a little different. Yeah it has, but I'll play....

    Did you fire a warning shot into the ground in front of the bear? (If so, how many shots?) Nope, mine was a 9 foot brown bear at 25 yards. When it saw me it charged and the first shot was in it's head at less than 8 yards. In my case I didn't have time to say "Oh s**t" before it was on me...much less fire a warning shot!

    How many times did you have to shoot at the bear during the charge? (If in a group, list each shooter separately.) I was able to hit it once in the head and once at about 5 feet as it rolled by me.... I was shooting a Weatherby chambered in .300 Wty! My brother-in-law shot at the bear but I don't think he hit it. He fired right after my first shot!

    Did it charge more than once? Nope....

    Did you actually hit the bear or was muzzleblast that turned the charge? I bet he felt a little muzzle blast alright!

    What range were your shots at? 8 yards and 5 feet, as fast as I could shoot!

    I'm looking for input from first hand experiences only. I'm sure we all have a brother-in-law who has shot 12 times in six seconds with his muzzleloader. My brother-in-law was with me.....

    Let me tell you what I'm thinking:
    The receiver on a pump shotgun is approximately 9" long, with a barrel length of 18.5", and the stock being approximately 11" long you get an overall length in the realm of approximately 38.5 inches. I have a side-by-side 12ga with 18.5" barrel, 3" receiver, and an 11" stock and you get an overall length of 32.5". Can your double barrel shoot slugs? Thats what I would be shooting if I had to use a shotgun IMO...

    Professional Hunters in Africa use doubles for back-up guns because that second shot is just a trigger pull away. There's no chance of me short-stroking the SxS (like you can with a pump) and jamming after the first shot. And the double is 6" shorter than the pump (handier in the brush). Does anybody up there use a short double as a bear defense gun? I've never seen anyone walking around with a double barrel. Most people carry a handgun of some sort. With that said, the only time I'm in the "brush" I am hunting and have a big rifle with me, so I don't carry a handgun. Are you planning on doing some hiking or something?
    I hope this helps...

    - Clint

  3. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    69

    Default

    Alaskacajun-

    I own a bear camp in Northern Saskatchewan and I'm thinking of something compact to carry while baiting bear stands. Also for following up bloodtrailing after my hunters shoot their bear. The nice thing is that I only have to deal with blackies (no grizzlies).

    Also, when I'm rolling on the quad between sites I'm supposed to be unloaded and I'm thinking it's a lot easier to crack it open and pull two from the tubes, rather than having to rack the action every time I need to unload.

    I'll take it to a gunsmith and have him put on a set of iron sites. I've shot slugs out of other doubles before and had decent accuracy out to 35 and 40 yards with just the bead.

  4. #4

    Default Charging brown bear

    - No warning shot, there wasn't time.

    - Once in full charge from the hip and once standing over it when it stopped at our feet, but was trying to get up.

    - No, once was enough.

    - Hit the bear on the right side of his nose from the hip, and down through the neck from above it.

    - First shot roughly 10 yards. Second shot at our feet.

    - No one I know uses a double for bear protection. A pump shotgun will carry more rounds, and more is better when in this situation. The Africa doubles thing was visable a long time ago when bolt or pump guns weren't very reliable, but with modern weapons, that usually isn't the problem. The MAIN problem with a gun short-stroking is the shooter is not used tothe weapon, or has little experience with it.

    If you read any post I answer about whatever gun you carry for defense, I always state that anyone carrying a weapon MUST be initmate with it or risk getting hurt. Practice, practice practice until it is second nature, then really practice. This also applies to a pump shotgun. After many, many rounds fired through GOOD practice it comes naturally. I have an 870 and have never short-stroked it, because I have used it so much over the years.
    Now just why in the hell do I have to press "1" for English???

  5. #5
    Member lab man's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Fairbanks
    Posts
    551

    Default

    If I were going to use a double barrel for protection, I think I would put a slug in one barrel, and buckshot in the other. I'm not sure what size I would use, maybe 00. If you get into a real nasty situation buckshot will screw a bear up in one heck of a hurry!

    I don't see anything wrong with carrying a double. When are you going to have time to shoot more than 2 shots anyways? But if you needed a 3rd shell.......well we all have a good idea of what would happen.

    -Eric

  6. #6
    Member ak_powder_monkey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Eagle River/ Juneau
    Posts
    5,154

    Default

    My buddy got charged once and sprayed the bear at 10 feet, the bear left.
    Same guy got charged by a moose sprayed it at 10 feet, the moose left.

    My parents got charged once and so they stood their ground, the bear left.

    There really doesn't have to be a dead bear.
    I choose to fly fish, not because its easy, but because its hard.

  7. #7
    New member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    North Pole
    Posts
    903

    Default

    I was actually stalking a Grizz and long story short...turned out she circled me and was standing on her hind legs looking at me when I turned around to check my back trail,as soon as she saw me move she hit the ground and came at me...Anyhow I dropped her by the grace of god with a shot thryu her eyeguard bone and hit the brain cavity.
    So I shot no warning shot as I was actually after her.She was about 60 yards from when she dropped.And fater thinking about it,I wached her chasing caribou and she was a young one,so I figure naybe that was her 1st year on her own and hungry.She was just over 6 foot,but I salted her off and on for nine days while out in the field.She barely was stretched to five and a half foot.Daniel

  8. #8

    Default

    AKPM said: "There really doesn't have to be a dead bear".

    Most of the time, this is absolutely true. However, on occasion this kind of thinking will get someone killed or mauled.

    Every situation is different. Say that above all you want until you have the "priviledge" of facing a non-bluffing bear. Then, you will see how wrong those words can be. Been there.

    I also have had many encounters that turned out good due to such things as banging pans, yelling, backing away, etc. Only once has it turned to a deadly encounter. I stand by my action and no one can say otherwise unless they stood there with me.

    As I said though, most of the time this is a true statement, and to even see a bear is a rare priviledge.....
    Now just why in the hell do I have to press "1" for English???

  9. #9
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    2 mi east of 'Halfmoon creek"
    Posts
    831

    Default

    As Hawken54 says making noise generally works, without firing a shot. Myself I learned not to try and determine if the bear is making a false charge, obviously no decision needs to be made with a wounded bear. If a Bear is moving at me 30 yards or less, my "warning shot" goes straight for the Bear, I've found several times a warning shot in the air or "spraying gravel" is just a waste of a bullet. Warning shots are an individuals decision. Myself, I would feel comfortable with the double. At times I carry a 10 ga. single, H&R bear stopper.

  10. #10
    webmaster Michael Strahan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 1999
    Location
    Anchorage, Alaska
    Posts
    5,765

    Default Careful, there-

    Quote Originally Posted by ak_powder_monkey View Post
    My buddy got charged once and sprayed the bear at 10 feet, the bear left.
    Same guy got charged by a moose sprayed it at 10 feet, the moose left.

    My parents got charged once and so they stood their ground, the bear left.

    There really doesn't have to be a dead bear.
    AKPM,

    I would be very careful about making generalizations like this when it comes to a wild animal with known aggressive tendancies. Ten good experiences and one bad one is not grounds for general claims of safety. Bears are unpredictable and capable of inflicting great harm to people. The appropriate preparation is a conservative stance that gives the potential victim lethal capabilities matching or exceeding those of the bear.

    -Mike
    LOST CREEK COMPANY: Specializing in Alaska hunt consultation and planning for do-it-yourself hunts, fully outfitted hunts, and guided hunts.
    CLICK HERE to send me a private message.
    Web Address: http://alaskaoutdoorssupersite.com/hunt-planner/
    Mob: 1 (907) 229-4501
    "Dream big, and dare to fail." -Norman Vaughan
    "I have climbed my mountain, but I must still live my life." - Tenzig Norgay

  11. #11

    Default

    Thats very true Michael and well said. I have had a good amount of up close and personals with griz and although they have all to this day done what I have wanted them to do which is go the other way, thankfully. But I have never for one second eliminated the possibilities of what could have happened in each incident. I will be bowhunting griz next month and dont think for one second that I wont make a decision to knock a bear down with a backup gun or my partners backup gun should a bear make a mistake and do what I dont want it to do. These things do have the capability of inflicting some serious harm on humans and that cant be forgotten. Its always easy to monday morning quarterback someone elses actions in a particular incident but being there and taking the appropriate actions can only be left to the one in the hot seat while its going down.

    AKPM, to assume that a bear wont hurt you 100% of the time is the kind of thinking that got Tim Snackwell eaten!

  12. #12
    Member Alaskacajun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    318

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ak_powder_monkey View Post
    My buddy got charged once and sprayed the bear at 10 feet, the bear left.
    Same guy got charged by a moose sprayed it at 10 feet, the moose left.

    My parents got charged once and so they stood their ground, the bear left.

    There really doesn't have to be a dead bear.
    I've been bluff charged twice..... This was NO bluff charge. The bear I shot was trying to get me. I could tell the second it started coming that it was no bluff!

    I would just like to add that the Original Poster specifically said that he was looking for "first hand experiences only." I'm not saying that you can't post on this thread, but you apparently have no pertanent information to add so thanks for your "OPINION"!

    - Clint

  13. #13

    Default blackie charge

    I was out on a long canoe trip in the interior. I set up camp as always, with my cooking & loafing area well separated from my tent. I woke up to an unfamiliar sound, so I got out of my tent to investigate. A black bear had been approaching my tent and when I came out, it leisurely walked in a half-circle around the tent, about 50 yards out. I figured that when it got my scent it would do as so many others had done - run away making a racket as it busted through the brush. It got around downwind and ran, alright. Straight at me, popping jaws and nigh scaring the ***** out of me. I shot it when it got to 15 feet and still hadn't slowed down.

    I might have fired earlier if I'd have had a bigger gun, but I wanted that puny .30 Carbine I had to have as much punch as it was capable of. The bullet went into the front of it's throat and lodged in the neck vertebrae. The second shot was through the top of its head as it lay there.

    FWIW, my opinion on shotguns is to use slugs only. The individual pellets of buckshot don't have enough mass to penetrate deeply enough to do more than irritate an oncoming bear.
    He fears his fate too much or his desserts are small who fears on just one touch to win or lose it all.

  14. #14
    Member ak_powder_monkey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Eagle River/ Juneau
    Posts
    5,154

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawken54 View Post
    AKPM said: "There really doesn't have to be a dead bear".

    Most of the time, this is absolutely true. However, on occasion this kind of thinking will get someone killed or mauled.

    Every situation is different. Say that above all you want until you have the "priviledge" of facing a non-bluffing bear. Then, you will see how wrong those words can be. Been there.

    I have never heard of pepper spray not working, I think its something like 92% effective, but I've never heard of a story of anyone spraying a bear and getting mauled. I've heard a few stories of guys with guns getting mauled though. There really doesn't have to be a dead bear. Also if you aren't armed you tend to be more careful, theres a big reason I haven't faced a non bluffing bear and this is I make tons of noise and stay in open areas.
    I choose to fly fish, not because its easy, but because its hard.

  15. #15
    Member Alaskacajun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    318

    Default

    AKPM

    Nobody makes tons of noise when they are hunting.... It defeats the purpose!

    That's why those bear/human encounter's result in a dead bear. In a hunting situation the bear will be surprised and at a much shorter distance than a noise making hiker walking down a trail encountering the same bear. When the surprised bear jumps up and runs directly at a equally surprised hunter, and the bear commits to the charge... he dies! It's as simple as that! No bear spray will turn a bear in that situation!

    Everytime you post one of these "you don't have to kill the poor bear" replies, it let's me know that you have NEVER been seriously charged by a bear! When you do and you are able to turn a ticked off bear with pepper spray, then come back and let us know! Chances are you won't make it through the experience!

    Again the original poster asked for:
    input from first hand experiences only.
    - Clint

  16. #16

    Default

    AKPM, I have had dozens and dozens of 'good" encounters with bears. Most of the time, they run away before you even know they are there. Only once in all of my 23 years hunting, hiking, camping, working and fishing in Alaska have I had the need to shoot, and I make no apologies to anyone for any reason for doing so. I have had to have my gun at the ready a number of times, but luckily, those ended well and no shot had to be fired.

    You have not had the pleasure of facing this situation, and at your young age do not realize what we have experienced, so please be careful with your approach to facing a bear. May be you we read about next time that tried to spray or talk a bear out of an attack.

    And yes, I HAVE heard from a number of folks that sprayed bears and it did not deter them one bit. I have also talked to some folks that have successfully used spray, but nearly every one of them said they would never rely on a compressed can of spray again. Said it's too hard to get the stains out of their drawers...
    Now just why in the hell do I have to press "1" for English???

  17. #17
    Member lab man's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Fairbanks
    Posts
    551

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RupertBear View Post
    FWIW, my opinion on shotguns is to use slugs only. The individual pellets of buckshot don't have enough mass to penetrate deeply enough to do more than irritate an oncoming bear.
    I've seen animals shot with buckshot. Don't underestimate the stuff. There are plenty of stories of people missing charging bears at close range. I know I will hit a bear if I shoot at it with buckshot. Doesn't a pellet in 000 have a .33'' diameter? While it may not penetrate some of the heavier chest bones, think about what it would do to a bears face. That bear wouldn't be in any position to do any kind of mauling. Shooting at anything under 20', the buckshot won't hardly have a pattern and will put a hole the size of a dessert plate into anything it touches. Haven't actually shot anything in self defense with buckshot though, so the results would be interesting.

    -Eric
    Last edited by lab man; 04-24-2007 at 18:23. Reason: changed wording

  18. #18
    Member NDTerminator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Devils Lake ND
    Posts
    262

    Default

    A couple additional rookie questions for all the guys who have BTDT...

    When you were charged and used a firearm on the bear, where you hunting, butchering an animal, etc or was it a chance encounter when you were doing something else like fishing or hiking?

    Are these all browns/grizzlies, or have you shot an aggressive black bear?

    Are browns more likely to come at a run than blacks?

    The reason I ask is the only bear I've killed was a big male black while hunting in Canada a number of years ago. Unlike other bears I encountered during that week (spooky & focused on the bait), this particular bear ignored the bait, came directly in, and walked very deliberately at me. (I was put in a very low open platform stand, maybe 6' up and 20 yards from the bait) No question he saw me as he was looking right at me and made eye contact.

    I had a borrowed RH (I'm left handed) Remington 700 06' with 180 grain loads and he never even paused when I half raised it on him as he approached. When he was maybe 20' away, I realized he was way too close and not stopping (this wasn't a running charge but a very deliberate walk, reminded me of a bully going to throw his weight around).

    I shot him at 15-18 feet, between the shoulder and neck which rolled him backwards. He recovered and ran back the way he came maybe 25 yards before going down just inside the bush. Suffice to say I was a bit shaken.

    I had no prior experience with bears but I didn't need a bear biologist or the guide (Who was watching unarmed from a climbing treestand about 25 yards away, and a bit shaken by this event, too) to tell me this was an aggressive bear. At times I've wondered what would have happened if an unarmed person had encountered this bear.

    The bear was 6' from nose to tail and the guide figured he went 300lbs or a bit more. A big bear for that area.

    That single black bear kind of colored my view of bears in general. In short, I don't trust any bear of any type. I'm finding the responses on this thread extremely interesting and informative...

  19. #19
    Member Alaskacajun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    318

    Default

    ~NDTerminator~

    I have been charged by 2 black bear sows with cubs.... both resulted in me pointing my rifle at them and yelling! Both came within mere feet of me but retreated. I knew they were both bluff charges from their posture!

    - Clint

  20. #20
    Member DanC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Haines
    Posts
    158

    Default Convert double shotgun to double rifle?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deathray7 View Post
    Professional Hunters in Africa use doubles for back-up guns because that second shot is just a trigger pull away. There's no chance of me short-stroking the SxS (like you can with a pump) and jamming after the first shot. And the double is 6" shorter than the pump (handier in the brush). Does anybody up there use a short double as a bear defense gun?
    I have often thought about experimenting with .45/70 rifle inserts (e.g., from MCA Sports in Anchorage) in a double barrel shotgun. The idea seems logical but there would probably be an accuracy problem. I have never followed up on the idea because I don't presently own a double shotgun. It would certainly be much cheaper than buying a legitimate double rifle.

    On the other hand, Brenneke slugs will probably deliver more energy than the .45/70 so it may be best to stick with the shotgun as it was intended.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •