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Thread: Is this a fair deal?

  1. #1
    Premium Member kasilofchrisn's Avatar
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    Default Is this a fair deal?

    I'm not sure this is the right forum but it is fishing related so here goes.
    I have some fellows at work who are interested in having me make stuff from some scrap lead that they have.
    Mostly Halibut weights but possibly some jigs and river weights for back bouncing etc.
    When it was proposed to me I quoted them a 50/50 deal. They bring me the raw lead. Then I will melt ,flux,and ingotize what isn't already in ingot form(wheel weights etc.) so I can easily estimate how much usable lead there is. They then get 50% of their lead back in finished weights etc.
    If they want powder coated or otherwise painted jigs, downrigger weights etc. I will keep a little more lead or they can pay me for some paint and supplies.
    I have a ton of different molds and everything need to make some nice finished jigs,weights etc. saving them the cost of buying the molds and other stuff needed to make them.
    One guy has 40-50# and another has 150# or so mostly used wheelweights and one other guy has some random unknown quantity of scrap lead .
    Does this sound like a fair deal for both parties?
    Anyone else ever do deals like this?
    "The closer I get to nature the farther I am from idiots"

    "Fishing and Hunting are only an addiction if you're trying to quit"

  2. #2

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    That's the split I've always used, whether casting lead or smoking fish. Everyone has been happy, but if they weren't I'd welcome them to go elsewhere for service.

  3. #3
    Sponsor potbuilder's Avatar
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    Sounds more than fair to me!! Who pays for the jig hooks, eyes or swivels ?? I sure hope you do the smelting/pouring outside?? 50% of the goodies in no way makes up for the damage you'll be doing to your body smelling the lead fumes !!!

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  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by potbuilder View Post
    Who pays for the jig hooks, eyes or swivels ??
    Just to kick back in, I make the other guy buy all that for his own, or reimburse me. It can add up fast. I also reduce everything to ingots before the split. Reason for doing it that way rather than after all the molding is that I might not want to use my half of the lead for the same things he wants.

  5. #5
    Premium Member kasilofchrisn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by potbuilder View Post
    Sounds more than fair to me!! Who pays for the jig hooks, eyes or swivels ?? I sure hope you do the smelting/pouring outside?? 50% of the goodies in no way makes up for the damage you'll be doing to your body smelling the lead fumes !!!
    For just the weights they only take a single stainless steel wire eye. Cost on those for me is .03-.05 cents each plus a little in shipping so it isn't that much especially when you consider I am ordering other parts from the same company at the same time. Like I said I would most likely charge them a little for parts or just keep more of the lead for my share for hooks paint etc. on the other stuff. Most only want halibut weights. They have yet to discover the amazing results you can have jigging for them.
    I do all my smelting outside wearing the proper PPE(Personal Protective Equipment).
    2 years in the zinc and lead mine didn't cause me any health problems. Wore my respirator and had my blood checked every few months.
    Most people are too scared of lead to mess with it. Then they go breathing all the fumes from the glues,epoxies and paints to make fishing flies or paint spoons or blades for lures or pour molten plastic for the grub tails. I think the fumes from that other stuff is worse then what I get from my lead melting.
    Thats another good reason to use powder paints less fumes and smell.
    According to the experts Steve the fact is you had more lead in you in the 1970's from the Tetraethyl lead in the gasoline of the day then I did working in the lead mine.
    "The closer I get to nature the farther I am from idiots"

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  6. #6
    Premium Member kasilofchrisn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrownBear View Post
    Just to kick back in, I make the other guy buy all that for his own, or reimburse me. It can add up fast. I also reduce everything to ingots before the split. Reason for doing it that way rather than after all the molding is that I might not want to use my half of the lead for the same things he wants.
    Thanks for the good advice. Sounds exactly like what I planned to do.
    Melt and flux it good then ingotize it to make an even split of good lead. Then make what they want out of their share. If they bring me ingots I will flux them before making anything to get all the dross out. Wheel weights can have a lot of crap in them and fluxing with some good beeswax helps a lot. I got a steal on the wax last year on the last day of the sportsmans show from the honey guy there.
    I much rather have them reimburse me for parts. That way they don't get cheap and buy the wrong hooks or eyes to save a few pennies or flat out get the wrong size.
    I already have all the stuff for making quite a bit because everything is cheaper in bulk. The stainless eyes I bought last time in the 500 packs.
    "The closer I get to nature the farther I am from idiots"

    "Fishing and Hunting are only an addiction if you're trying to quit"

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by kasilofchrisn View Post
    I much rather have them reimburse me for parts. That way they don't get cheap and buy the wrong hooks or eyes to save a few pennies or flat out get the wrong size.
    You have been around this particular block, haven't you! I'd carry on, because no one is going to feel shorted when you've turned their share from scrap into good stuff. If they don't like the deal, hand them a mold catalog and tell them where to get their own gear.

  8. #8
    Member homerdave's Avatar
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    totally fair.
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    Member kodiakrain's Avatar
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    Sounds Immensely Fair to me,....a Generous deal for "them"

    Considering your investment in the gear you'll be using,...the savings of "the learning curve" for the other guys to DIY,...

    I'd be happy to be them
    Ten Hours in that little raft off the AK peninsula, blowin' NW 60, in November.... "the Power of Life and Death is in the Tongue," and Yes, God is Good !

  11. #11
    Premium Member kasilofchrisn's Avatar
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    For the most part they all just want Halibut sinkers or river sinkers.
    Sinkers are easy. Not much learning curve to those really,well ok some of it takes a little learning and certainly some safety.
    Stuff like this helps me justify buying some of the molds I have. One of the guys wanted a 24 oz cannonball wich was a mold I didn't have. He offered to buy me the mold so he could get the size he wanted. The mold makes a 20oz and 24oz sinker. A good deal for me on that one.
    Scrap lead is getting harder and harder to find for free so I can't really complain I guess and they are going to deliver it to me.
    If I can find enough guys willing to trade their scrap lead for easy stuff like sinkers I will have years and years worth of jigs and sinkers for personal use.
    "The closer I get to nature the farther I am from idiots"

    "Fishing and Hunting are only an addiction if you're trying to quit"

  12. #12
    Member kodiakrain's Avatar
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    Mind if I ask,...where are folks finding scrap lead these days,...we use Cannonballs for Commercial jigging a lot
    Lead is the preferred material for Jig weights as we work in strong current quite a bit,
    but, it definitely seems the preformed Lead, in any form is getting Really Expensive,...
    where as the ingot form, down south anyway, is not really much at all,...so it's the melting/pouring that is going way up for us

    and is it possible, not too toxic,...to break down old batteries,...douse it all in Baking Soda,...to come up with the lead,...??
    or is that illegal, or something?

    Where else do you find guys recovering scrap lead?
    Ten Hours in that little raft off the AK peninsula, blowin' NW 60, in November.... "the Power of Life and Death is in the Tongue," and Yes, God is Good !

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    I would NOT touch old batteries. If you have any acid residue and you heat it up its about what they used in some of the gas chambers in WWII. Its just not worth it.

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by kodiakrain View Post
    Mind if I ask,...where are folks finding scrap lead these days,...we use Cannonballs for Commercial jigging a lot
    Lead is the preferred material for Jig weights as we work in strong current quite a bit,
    but, it definitely seems the preformed Lead, in any form is getting Really Expensive,...
    where as the ingot form, down south anyway, is not really much at all,...so it's the melting/pouring that is going way up for us

    and is it possible, not too toxic,...to break down old batteries,...douse it all in Baking Soda,...to come up with the lead,...??
    or is that illegal, or something?

    Where else do you find guys recovering scrap lead?
    Check with the rangemaster at KISA. They're swimming in the stuff.

  15. #15
    Member broncoformudv's Avatar
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    Sounds like a very fair deal to me!

  16. #16
    Member kodiakrain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrownBear View Post
    Check with the rangemaster at KISA. They're swimming in the stuff.
    Hey BrownBear, Thanks Lots for that, great solution

    and kgpcr,...thanks as well,...I had a feeling,...

    Is like an old fisherman thing to think,....hmmm,...
    ( as I wash paint off my hands with straight thinner), "gotta remember those gloves,... Next time"
    yeah, am excaggerating a little, but not much
    Ten Hours in that little raft off the AK peninsula, blowin' NW 60, in November.... "the Power of Life and Death is in the Tongue," and Yes, God is Good !

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    Quote Originally Posted by kgpcr View Post
    I would NOT touch old batteries. If you have any acid residue and you heat it up its about what they used in some of the gas chambers in WWII. Its just not worth it.
    Well, kasilofchrisn, you certainly know how I feel about you, but I also have a lot of compassion, believe it of not, and I would heed kgpcr's words very seriously. Not to put myself on a pedestal here, but I have 3 semesters of college level chemistry under my belt and have at least a modicum of knowledge of what I am saying despite what you might think. Sulfur is one of the main components of mustard gas and also one of the main components of sulfuric acid. Hmmmmmm.......

    You are planning on working with two extremely dangerous substances: lead and sulfuric acid. Yeah, I'm not always the "sharpest tack in the bunch" but I do know that sulfuric acid is a VERY dangerous substance to be playing around with if you don't know exactly what you are doing. Lead is not much better. PLEASE know exactly what you're doing before trying to heat up lead that has been bathed in sulfuric acid. It's your life, so do what you want, but please be very careful and know what you're doing.
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  18. #18
    Premium Member kasilofchrisn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muttley Crew Fishing View Post
    Well, kasilofchrisn, you certainly know how I feel about you, but I also have a lot of compassion, believe it of not, and I would heed kgpcr's words very seriously. Not to put myself on a pedestal here, but I have 3 semesters of college level chemistry under my belt and have at least a modicum of knowledge of what I am saying despite what you might think. Sulfur is one of the main components of mustard gas and also one of the main components of sulfuric acid. Hmmmmmm.......

    You are planning on working with two extremely dangerous substances: lead and sulfuric acid. Yeah, I'm not always the "sharpest tack in the bunch" but I do know that sulfuric acid is a VERY dangerous substance to be playing around with if you don't know exactly what you are doing. Lead is not much better. PLEASE know exactly what you're doing before trying to heat up lead that has been bathed in sulfuric acid. It's your life, so do what you want, but please be very careful and know what you're doing.
    Just to be clear I was not the one who suggested old batteries. Please read the entire thread before responding next time.
    I would never mess with old batteries or the lead in them ever.
    The lead I have now is mostly old lead pipe,used wheel weights which I already ingotized,and linotype lead.I usually blend it to get a good alloy.
    I know how to work safely with lead. I have all the PPE and know how to use it. I have been doing this for a few years now and feel confident in what I am doing and that I am doing it safely.
    Thanks for your concern.
    "The closer I get to nature the farther I am from idiots"

    "Fishing and Hunting are only an addiction if you're trying to quit"

  19. #19
    Moderator bkmail's Avatar
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    Kasilof,
    I'd take you up on your offer if I was in your neighborhood. Sounds like a great deal if I was the guy giving you lead and coming back to pick up my jigs.
    BK

  20. #20
    Premium Member kasilofchrisn's Avatar
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    Thanks for all the replies guys.
    Personally I enjoy making weights and jigs at home.
    It is fun for me and can certainly be done safely if you take the time to read a lot of the safety info and practice it.
    It isn't as cheap as many people think to make halibut weights. The molds cost $30-$75 each and many molds only do one size so you need one mold for each size weight you intend to make.
    Many people do not use enough weights to justify the cost. You would need to make 6-1# weights at trustworthy's price to equal the cost of just the 1# weight mold. That doesnt include what you pay for lead or the propane and/or electricity for the melting.Most people do not use/loose enough weights to justify that.
    Jigs are even more expensive with the hooks, powder paints, prism tapes,3-d eyes, etc.
    Being as I intended to make weights and jigs for multiple friends and relatives of mine and myself it was worth it to me.
    Especially when I can make deals like this that get me the lead for cheap.
    I also wanted to make stuff nobody else in AK has on their boats. I have some cool new molds on order and will have some really neat stuff being made this winter in addition to what I already make.
    I make several styles of weights from 1oz to 3# and jigs from 2.5oz to 2.6#. And 10# downrigger weights.
    I will post up some pics when I get some more stuff done.
    Some guys make tiny little fishing flies. I make big lead weights and jigs.
    Thanks again guys.
    "The closer I get to nature the farther I am from idiots"

    "Fishing and Hunting are only an addiction if you're trying to quit"

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