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Thread: When to say when?

  1. #1

    Default When to say when?

    I have been following with interest the "What would you do?" thread and have a different situation that also kind of shows a difference in attitudes. A coworker won a goat permit and bear permit on Kodiak Island three years ago. He had a rifle but was worried that he needed protection in the tent from roaming bears. I lent him a SW model 500 SW Mag. He returned it two months after he went.
    The next spring he borrowed it again because he wanted to go bear hunting with his 4wheeler and felt that it would help him.
    I again felt, "Well Ill be a good guy and loan it to him again." He returned it three days later. Last year, he asked to shoot it because he had purchased a box of shells. I decided well yes if I get it right back. I loaned it and he returned it the next day without shooting a box of shells.

    Fast forward to now. He wants to borrow it to go bowhunting grizzlies with a fourwheeler the Steese. I have now asked him to buy his own.. nicely.
    He has texted me several times.
    He will not be loaned that gun.

    How many of you have the borrowers who take advantage of the situation and actually have the gall to say I should be able to borrow it because I bought a box of shells?

    Sincerely,
    Thomas

  2. #2
    Member skybust's Avatar
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    I would tell him to go pound sand so what he bought shells what he should have bought was his own gun
    Is it opening day of duck season yet
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    Member Gr is for Greg's Avatar
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    I think you are very generous to have loaned your gun to someone, not just once, but multiple times. This will unfortunately not be the only time in your life that someone tries to guilt you into being more generous than you are comfortable with being. Don't let it happen; resist the urge to give into the guilt. A worthy recipient of such generosity would stop asking the minute he/she sensed any hesitation in your willingness to give. Anyone else is an ********, plain and simple.

    I am pretty generous with my stuff. I loan things out all the time. I've been burned plenty of times. It's the way it goes. That said, I would only ever loan a gun to a very good friend.

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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    I would not lose a friend over a gun but he well may.
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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    I 'd buy those shells from him, doubt he'll be needing them. Surley sounds like it's time to say when.

  6. #6
    Member hodgeman's Avatar
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    BTDT.

    It puts you in a rough spot emotionally. If he "needs" a .500 that often then justifying the purchase shouldn't be too hard.

    Asking is OK. Borrowing is OK. Lending is OK. Saying "No" is OK.... Asking again after being told "no" once is just begging on his part-not OK. Your friend isn't really respecting your feelings on the matter very much and is trying to manipulate you.

    I'd probably start looking for a new friend.
    "I do not deal in hypotheticals. The world, as it is, is vexing enough..." Col. Stonehill, True Grit

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    Member junkak's Avatar
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    Ask if you can borrow his wife

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    I've been both the borrower and the lender.

    I borrowed a come-along twice from a friend before he mentioned that if I needed one that often, perhaps I should buy my own. I was initially hurt by what I perceived as rejection/criticism, but the fact is that I then not only bought one, but received another from a friend in the bush who'd heard my needs expressed, and had given up on traditional come-alongs altogether.

    I've had a neighbor who was gifted moose meat, baked goods, etc., many times by us. They came to my home one day, listing things they 'needed' to get from me. On the list was more moose meat. Suddenly a gift was on a list of 'needs,' with there not being much of a question-mark attached to the 'I need' part..

    This year a friend who has helped with various outings, both fishing and meat processing, and who has extended themselves physically in those cases on many occasions, making those ventures not only easier, but perhaps more 'doable,' was headed out moose hunting. He's not much into firearms, and was headed into what I consider to be fairly-well-populated bear country. He only possessed an OLD .30-30.

    I know the stories and claims from many sources over the years of hunting with such a weapon (a weapon I personally regard as WAY under-powered in serious bear country), and I was concerned for him; not only for his choice of firearm, but for his inexperience with it.

    I had an ample stash of bullets for a utility-grade firearm with a decent scope attached to it, which I deemed at least slightly more suitable for his needs, so I took the rifle, some ammunition, my target stand, and my friend to the range, along with binos, shooting rest, cleaning kit, etc. I was sincerely worried about gun safety, and went through the primary associated issues of such with him NUMEROUS times. I then showed him how to administer a THOROUGH cleaning of the weapon.

    On the way to the range, he volunteered to buy targets, some preferred lubricant (as I told him the gun should be well-oiled each day, esp. if the weather turned crappy.)

    On the way to the range he also volunteered to buy us a frugal but very nice lunch; not required but welcome.

    In the end his hunting partners shot the required number of moose, and my rifle was returned to me unfired, in what appears to be good order, along with the box of bullets I'd loaned him.

    I haven't taken it to the range yet to confirm its condition, but tend to regard him as a trustworthy person in most regards. I also let him know that I don't lend firearms to just anyone; -very rarely-, in fact.

    In each of these cases I've handled it differently. The one neighbor is rarely offered meat by me anymore. They lack gratitude and basic manners. I bought a come-along, came into another one as well, and learned again that the easy way isn't always the right way where personal responsibility and boundaries are concerned.

    In re. to the friend who borrowed the rifle, I want him to become more familiar with the rifle before next time, if there is a 'next time.' But if I sense that he's headed into another situation wherein he's less prepared than I think he ought to be, his efforts and reciprocation in the past all point toward me making exceptions for him.

    I think in the end, it's as much about reciprocity of decency, to include responsibility and respect, as it is anything else.

  9. #9
    Member big_dog60's Avatar
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    I don't think I would loan out one of my guns.

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    Default When to say when?

    I'd sell it to him. Problem solved... Then go get a new one...
    Do I give my friends advice? Jesus, no. They wouldn't take advice from me. Nobody should take advice from me. I haven't got a clue about anything..

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    After having lost a pre-'64 Model 70 bull barrel in .375 H&H cal., several knives, two outboard motors, a brand new dry suit, and too many more articles to list, I finally - - - FINALLY - - - established my own rule about that: I would never loan my wife, my firearms, my knives, nor my optics. I'm glad I did that. If saying "no" costs you a friendship, it wasn't much of a friendship at all, was it !!!

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    Member Gerberman's Avatar
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    This fall when I got back to town I offered and gave my barber some of my halibut and sockeye, then the other day he calls me and asks if I am at the shop he has his cooler and would like to fill it up again with some more fish. I said I was downtown (which I was) and would not be able to meet him at the shop and give him fish. I though it strange for him to ask for more. I will gladly share my bounty with others, but I think it is unkind (it puts you on the spot) to be asked by someone to give them something.

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    Member 4merguide's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerberman View Post
    I will gladly share my bounty with others, but I think it is unkind (it puts you on the spot) to be asked by someone to give them something.
    Giving a gift is one thing....being asked to give is quite another. I think that was a pretty ridiculous/ballsy thing for that guy to do to you.
    Sheep hunting...... the pain goes away, but the stupidity remains...!!!

  14. #14
    Member TWB's Avatar
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    Default When to say when?

    Not one for borrowing firearms or high value items however had it been me I would've shown my appreciation and bought you a box of shells.
    We do not go to the green woods and crystal waters to rough it, we go to smooth it. We get it rough enough at home; in towns and cities; in shops, offices, stores, banks anywhere that we may be placed

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    Quote Originally Posted by TWB View Post
    Not one for borrowing firearms or high value items however had it been me I would've shown my appreciation and bought you a box of shells.
    +1
    And a gun case/holster ... and a share of the meats (goat, bear, etc). Probably have offered to have you over for dinner sometime, take you on a fishing trip. Might even mow your lawn, prune some trees, or shovel snow from the sidewalk leading up to your house.

    Probably not offer the shirt off my back. Shirt is cotton and as many know - cotton kills.

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    Member Tearbear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaboku68 View Post
    I have been following with interest the "What would you do?" thread and have a different situation that also kind of shows a difference in attitudes. A coworker won a goat permit and bear permit on Kodiak Island three years ago. He had a rifle but was worried that he needed protection in the tent from roaming bears. I lent him a SW model 500 SW Mag. He returned it two months after he went.
    The next spring he borrowed it again because he wanted to go bear hunting with his 4wheeler and felt that it would help him.
    I again felt, "Well Ill be a good guy and loan it to him again." He returned it three days later. Last year, he asked to shoot it because he had purchased a box of shells. I decided well yes if I get it right back. I loaned it and he returned it the next day without shooting a box of shells.

    Fast forward to now. He wants to borrow it to go bowhunting grizzlies with a fourwheeler the Steese. I have now asked him to buy his own.. nicely.
    He has texted me several times.
    He will not be loaned that gun.

    How many of you have the borrowers who take advantage of the situation and actually have the gall to say I should be able to borrow it because I bought a box of shells?

    Sincerely,
    Thomas
    How well do you know this guy? Is he just a co-worker or a truly 'good buddy' that you know well? Seems like he might be able to afford his own gun, and I wouldn't feel bad about letting him know it, he shouldn't either. If he likes the model you have, and will be getting one, give him back the shells. If he can't get a gun for himself, there may be a reason for that.
    "Grin and Bear It"

  17. #17
    Member akiceman25's Avatar
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    I , personally, loathe the borrowing of any item. I don't ask to borrow any item and expect the same. If I need something, I buy it. If I cannot afford it, I don't deserve it. I hold that principal to others as well.

    I once, in a dire situation, borrowed a 2" hitch ball from a neighbor(lost mine somewhere on the trail). I now feel forever indebted to him and have repaid his graciousness 10 fold. It's ridiculous I know! That's just the way my morals work.

    Same goes for 'gimme a hand'. If I can't do it myself. It doesn't get done. I've hurt myself with this tactic. But I'm just stubborn that way.
    I am serious... and don't call me Shirley.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KM2K7sV-K74

  18. #18
    Member iusckeeper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by junkak View Post
    Ask if you can borrow his wife
    What if he says no?

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    Quote Originally Posted by iusckeeper View Post
    What if he says no?
    Evidently you then text him the request several times

  20. #20
    Member hodgeman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iusckeeper View Post
    What if he says no?
    Even worse...what if he says "yes" and wants you to return the favor next week?
    "I do not deal in hypotheticals. The world, as it is, is vexing enough..." Col. Stonehill, True Grit

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