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Thread: Fall review of Trooper Dispatches

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    Member AK Ray's Avatar
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    Default Fall review of Trooper Dispatches

    This is the time of year that we can go through the Trooper Dispatches and learn from other's mistakes.....or laugh at them.

    The one thing that stands out this year is the number of non-resident hunters in violation of the regulations. There are not very many as compared to past years. Used to be lots of non-res with sub legal moose, but that is not the case this year - just a few documented by the troopers. Residents with sub legal moose has appeared to increase. The GMU 13 legal bull population may be hard to find next season with all the close but not quite bulls taken this year. The Nelchina caribou control program may have backfired on the bull moose population with the 4,000 additional hunters this year over prior years.

    So what is important to learn:

    Leave evidence of sex naturally attached. Leave a ball on rather than the peener sheath. On a cow leave the udder. Even for spots I am not required to do this I do it anyway just to keep in practice.

    Know what "50 and 4" means. It does not mean 45 and 2. If you see a moose with just 2 brow tines you might want to just sit on your hands and let it walk unless you can tell it has a really wide spread.

    When you walk up to your downed animal, validate your harvest tag by cutting the day and month notches right then. Make sure you signed it before leaving home. Then stick the tag back in your pocket and keep it there until you get home.

    There are maps in the GMU sections of the regulations. There are better maps on the ADF&G website for units and sub units. Review them at home before heading out. Learn what a controlled use area is and where its boundaries are. Sounds like there is a great parking lot at 0.2 miles of the Coal Mine Road near Delta. Too bad it is inside the DCUA. The good news is that the restriction is only for a short time in August. Too bad you drove in and parked there during that time. Valdez Creek Mine road hammered a lot of people. Even a guide was caught somewhere in the Clearwater Creek CUA taking a bull caribou with a motorized vehicle. The people up the Valdez creek mine road using vehicles also took sub legal moose, didn't validate harvest tags, etc. Scofflaws abound this season.

    Know the difference between a cow caribou and a bull. Especially if you have a bull only drawing permit. There are some really big cows out there that have nice antlers, but they are still a cow and not legal under your bull only permit.

    If you are going to haul meat back home for a buddy, or have split an animal between two people with only one notching their harvest tag, make sure you have a transfer of possession form documenting that its not your meat. Print this out before you leave home and leave it in the truck just in case. I keep two in my glove box just in case. I have handed them out to folks in the past.

    If you break a bunch of rules while out hunting and you have to get home by coming through a huge obvious parking lot next to the highway, don't be surprised that a Trooper may be in that parking lot at any given time doing their job by checking hunters leaving an area through an obvious choke point. They will find your sub legal sheep, sub legal moose, un validated harvest tags, etc. Enjoy your experience in the Glennallen District Court, you outlaw you.

    If you are in a bull moose only area - an any bull area at that - don't be shooting cows and trying to sneak back home with the meat. Also on this subject don't tell your under 16 teenage son to shoot a cow moose unless you have a cow moose permit in your pocket for him to tag out with. "Hey Dad, remember that time back in 2012 when you were shouting 'SHOOT', 'SHOOT HIM' like that crazy cajun guy on the History channel, and then I shot a cow, and we got busted by the Troopers? Good times Dad. Good times."

    Up at Toolik we know you want those antlers from your once in a lifetime caribou trophy, but you really have to salvage all the meat. Yes walking on tundra sucks, but you still need to get all the meat out.

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    Member TWB's Avatar
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    Default Fall review of Trooper Dispatches

    Lots to be said here. Most violations can be avoided with simple education.

    To caveat, if you take your kids hunting take the time to explain to them why you are shooting a bull versus any moose, or a boar versus any bear.

    They will grow up to be a violator or a hunter with ethics. They will likely decide based on how they are taught in the field.

    A child's enthusiasm in the field is plagued with curiosity and well, several times my son asked why we couldn't shoot this bird, or why we can't take beavers or why certain moose apply.

    When we landed in Fairbanks from our hunt the Troopers were already on the flight line making their rounds checking tags, antler spread and proof of sex. And they had quite the collection of antlers, horns and capes in the bed of their truck as well as a large gun case scattered with previous airline labels.

    I wanted my boy to learn that they were the good guys and we were good hunters.

    Tags notched, game bag with proof of sex had a zip tie on it to distinguish it from the rest. Quick feel by the trooper and he was content.

    My bear tag was easily accessible, proof of sex and a kudos on meat salvage.

    It's easy if you take just a small amount of time out.
    We do not go to the green woods and crystal waters to rough it, we go to smooth it. We get it rough enough at home; in towns and cities; in shops, offices, stores, banks anywhere that we may be placed

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    Member Tearbear's Avatar
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    Very good advice here. I read the Trooper Dispatch daily and couldn't believe the amount of under 50" 2 brow tine moose that were taken by hunters. And the failure to salvage all edible meat makes me sick...though they make sure to pack those antlers out. If you accidentally shoot the wrong size or sex animal, it's always in your favor to report it immediately, instead of trying to get away with it...they'll take the animal for sure, but maybe not your rifle, atv, meat wagon, airplane, hunting privileges, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AK Ray View Post
    The Nelchina caribou control program may have backfired on the bull moose population with the 4,000 additional hunters this year over prior years.
    I would think last years winter 2011/2012 (winter kill and by vehicles) had a larger impact on the Unit 13 moose population than the hunters pursuing those 2500 additional caribou tags.

    I think the program glitched when the 2500 extra tags were issued. Sure, not everyone got a tag ... but if the chance to draw a caribou is that high ... would think that many that put in for the Tier hunt would now go the draw route as families wouldn't be restricted to Unit 13 Tier restrictions (one caribou per household and the Unit 13 hunting restrictions for moose/caribou). Look to the future. Going the draw route would allow families to pursue and satisfy their meat needs with 2-3 caribou (and be done).... and perhaps accommodate more hunters while applying less pressure on the moose?

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    Member TWB's Avatar
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    Default Fall review of Trooper Dispatches

    Less pressure in Unit 13 is only adequate if the pressure is only put on "legal" animals.

    I spoke to a friend of a friend on Sept 18. He had a moose seized a few days prior and the F&W officer had already expressed that 14 sub-legal bulls had already been seized and the season was only half over.
    We do not go to the green woods and crystal waters to rough it, we go to smooth it. We get it rough enough at home; in towns and cities; in shops, offices, stores, banks anywhere that we may be placed

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    Quote Originally Posted by TWB View Post
    Less pressure in Unit 13 is only adequate if the pressure is only put on "legal" animals.

    I spoke to a friend of a friend on Sept 18. He had a moose seized a few days prior and the F&W officer had already expressed that 14 sub-legal bulls had already been seized and the season was only half over.
    Anyone know the auto/train kill count from last winter for the area? IMO - 14 sublegals for half the season with 4000 xtra hunters is a pretty small number. If it was a large number, I would expect the F&G would be closing hunts there by Emergency Order.

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    Unit 13 did not get anymore snow than usual so the winter kill was nothing and there are way fewer vehicle kills than there are around south central due to there being fewer vehicles and the moose wintering away from the highways.

    If the troopers had only caught 14 people with sublegal moose by Sept 18 in unit 13 then about 80 made it home or turned themselves in.

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    Member TWB's Avatar
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    Default Fall review of Trooper Dispatches

    Quote Originally Posted by Wet eNuf View Post
    Anyone know the auto/train kill count from last winter for the area? IMO - 14 sublegals for half the season with 4000 xtra hunters is a pretty small number. If it was a large number, I would expect the F&G would be closing hunts there by Emergency Order.
    Large by comparison when prior years only saw half of that number in hunters!!

    14 sub legal bulls this year turns into god only knows how many calves next season.
    We do not go to the green woods and crystal waters to rough it, we go to smooth it. We get it rough enough at home; in towns and cities; in shops, offices, stores, banks anywhere that we may be placed

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    Is the sub-legal sheep character from yesterday's report the same one who was seeking "expert" opinions about his 5/8 curl ram?
    Passing up shots on mergansers since 1992.


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    Default Fall review of Trooper Dispatches

    Quote Originally Posted by broncoformudv View Post
    Unit 13 did not get anymore snow than usual so the winter kill was nothing and there are way fewer vehicle kills than there are around south central due to there being fewer vehicles and the moose wintering away from the highways.

    If the troopers had only caught 14 people with sublegal moose by Sept 18 in unit 13 then about 80 made it home or turned themselves in.
    Agreed. We stayed at Alpine mid march and with over 400 miles on the sleds spotted well over 100 moose; cows with 2 calves were the norm.
    We do not go to the green woods and crystal waters to rough it, we go to smooth it. We get it rough enough at home; in towns and cities; in shops, offices, stores, banks anywhere that we may be placed

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    Quote Originally Posted by TWB View Post
    Large by comparison when prior years only saw half of that number in hunters!!

    14 sub legal bulls this year turns into god only knows how many calves next season.
    Wouldn't that depend on the quantity of many sub legals that were cows... but then assume the bulls weren't wiped out enough that cows were left stranded and un-impregnated.

    I see your point though when considering the legal take; and would assume the legal take was greater than the sublegal take. So when dealing with the flood of hunters into the unit (and moose management), do you think they should:
    1) Shorten the moose season?
    2) close the unit to the taking of caribou during the moose season?
    3) go to a draw for moose for unit 13?
    4) or change the bull requirements to 4 brow/50 inch for all hunters?

    What are your thoughts?

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    Member broncoformudv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wet eNuf View Post
    I see your point though when considering the legal take; and would assume the legal take was greater than the sublegal take. So when dealing with the flood of hunters into the unit (and moose management), do you think they should:
    1) Shorten the moose season?
    2) close the unit to the taking of caribou during the moose season?
    3) go to a draw for moose for unit 13?
    4) or change the bull requirements to 4 brow/50 inch for all hunters?

    What are your thoughts?
    1. I think they need to get rid of the requirement for Tier 1 hunters to be required to hunt moose and caribou in unit 13.

    2. Stop the any bull tags for unit 13 or go to a full draw for moose in unit 13 and make them any bull tags.

    Those two changes would dramatically change the tide of things that are happening out there.

    1. The trail conditions and trash would get better
    2. The moose population would be able to sustain the harvest if a set quota were established instead of a shoot every bull you see quota that we currently have

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    Member TWB's Avatar
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    Default Fall review of Trooper Dispatches

    Might consider a new thread. This ship ran way off course lol.
    We do not go to the green woods and crystal waters to rough it, we go to smooth it. We get it rough enough at home; in towns and cities; in shops, offices, stores, banks anywhere that we may be placed

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    Another miscue of the Unit 13 caribou was that they gave the tags to the draw hunters. Although I benefited by the release of the extra tags, it seemed to be a real slap in the face of those that applied for the tier tags.

    From a moose hunting prospective, that encouraged a lot of hunters into the area for their moose. With the Tier hunt, they had 1 caribou per household. Historically, those tier tags were sought after and people lied for such benefit. With the boom of the caribou population, it was ironic to see the release of the extra tags go to the draw applicants… rather than up the per household caribou to two.

    I’m sure the issue will be reviewed and would not be surprised to see the number of draw tags capped and the number of caribou allowed by the tier tag to be increased until the caribou quota is met (say a max two caribou per household). This approach would allow discourage the number of draw winners from hunting moose in unit 13, and allow Tier permit winners the opportunity to fill their freezers with two caribou instead of a caribou and moose.

    I look forward to seeing how it plays out.

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    Ive been leaving the penis stub on the carcass, and Trooper who stopped and chatted said it was better to leave the balls to avoid confusion.......to which I asked how confusing was a penis stub on a Bull to that of a Cow? He laughed at that one, and remarked that , indeed a penis stub was fine, but balls are easier to see quickly.....then we all laughed. ~~LOL!!~~


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    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TWB View Post

    To caveat, if you take your kids hunting take the time to explain to them why you are shooting a bull versus any moose, or a boar versus any bear.

    They will grow up to be a violator or a hunter with ethics. They will likely decide based on how they are taught in the field.
    Well said. Whenever I take my nephew out hunting, we spend the majority of the drive to the field discussing the regulations for the area and game we're seeking, the justification behind those regulations, responsible shot placement/distance, and other such issues. I was never more impressed than when he passed the first few shots he had at caribou because the right situation just didn't materialize. A lot of what we had talked about came to mind in that moment, he later told me, and he knew that he only wanted to take a shot that he knew he could make without wounding an animal or another animal in the vicinity. Hunters don't start out with a well developed sense of ethics any more than children start out as selfless individuals. We all needed training in the regulations and ethics of hunting, and we should all take the opportunity to pass on those lessons when given the chance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wet eNuf View Post
    Another miscue of the Unit 13 caribou was that they gave the tags to the draw hunters. Although I benefited by the release of the extra tags, it seemed to be a real slap in the face of those that applied for the tier tags.

    From a moose hunting prospective, that encouraged a lot of hunters into the area for their moose. With the Tier hunt, they had 1 caribou per household. Historically, those tier tags were sought after and people lied for such benefit. With the boom of the caribou population, it was ironic to see the release of the extra tags go to the draw applicants… rather than up the per household caribou to two.

    I’m sure the issue will be reviewed and would not be surprised to see the number of draw tags capped and the number of caribou allowed by the tier tag to be increased until the caribou quota is met (say a max two caribou per household). This approach would allow discourage the number of draw winners from hunting moose in unit 13, and allow Tier permit winners the opportunity to fill their freezers with two caribou instead of a caribou and moose.

    I look forward to seeing how it plays out.

    The reduced number of animals per household and the moose hunting restrictions are the only things keeping everyone and their brothers from applying for the guaranteed tier I permits. If they take that limitation away, they will then also have to take away the guaranteed permit aspect and you are right back to the old points style syste, drawing, or a registration hunt. If one caribou isn't enough for the family, they can go for the drawing hunts and/or hunt other areas to get more meat. This year's situation was unique and I think they did a good job with it. There was never a cap on the allotment of tier tags, so everyone that applied got one. There was not a set number of draw tags listed because they didn't know the population or how many tier application their would be up front. When the Tier applications were passed out, they rounded it out with the drawing applicants. I don't see how that could be a slap in the face of the tier applicants at all. They knew from day one that by applying they limited their abilities to hunt elsewhere and how many caribou they could get. If that wasn't sufficient, they should have chosen another way. The drawing application was a gamble, one that paid off this year for many but won't always work out that way.

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    Member alaska_pike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tearbear View Post
    Very good advice here. I read the Trooper Dispatch daily and couldn't believe the amount of under 50" 2 brow tine moose that were taken by hunters. And the failure to salvage all edible meat makes me sick...though they make sure to pack those antlers out. If you accidentally shoot the wrong size or sex animal, it's always in your favor to report it immediately, instead of trying to get away with it...they'll take the animal for sure, but maybe not your rifle, atv, meat wagon, airplane, hunting privileges, etc.
    just think of how mmany people probly do get away with it,..14 noted means a whole lot more that were kept under wraps

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    i dont konw why it took me 2 weeks to read this. it was pretty **** funny. nicely done. i dont mean the voilations are funny but the way they were written up. just to clarify before the hate mail rolls in.

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    one thing to keep in mind for thoese lucky enough to get a DCUA permit and use coal mine road is that it is military land and you also need a permit to cross or park on their land, it is free and you can get it on line, we were checked this year coming out, had our permits but the officer said to let everyone know they are checking

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