Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 27

Thread: Pass through or not to pass through that is the question?

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Anchorage
    Posts
    401

    Default Pass through or not to pass through that is the question?

    This day and age with all the new bows out there I think a pass through is pretty common these days. What about the old theory of keeping the arrow in the vitals and having it cut and slash as the animal moves. What are your thoughts?

  2. #2
    Member Ak_Predator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    North Pole
    Posts
    136

    Default

    Never really thought of that, however... it's a great theory. I think we'll need to hear from a few to get to the bottom of this one!

  3. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    fairbanks, ak
    Posts
    491

    Default

    How do you get it to stop and continue slashing in the vitals? Doesn't take much once it's inside the rib cage to keep going till it hits ribs or more meat on the far side to slow it down.

  4. #4
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    north pole
    Posts
    336

    Default

    I have taken 2 moose and a bear with archery gear, both moose I did not get a pass through and they both made it about 10yds and droped, the bear I got a pass through and he made it 60-80yds. That's just how it has worked for me, I'm sure some of the other guys on here that have shot a lot more than me might have some different observations though. And just a small FYI the second moose and bear was taken with about a high end bow as you can get and it got the same penetration and my old pse, so I think a pass through is kind of a luck of the draw if your going to catch a rib or something on the bigger animals anyway.

  5. #5
    Member TWB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Wasilla
    Posts
    3,573

    Default Pass through or not to pass through that is the question?

    Why is it on all the big deer hunting tv shows, only half the shots I see are a pass through....on a deer??
    We do not go to the green woods and crystal waters to rough it, we go to smooth it. We get it rough enough at home; in towns and cities; in shops, offices, stores, banks anywhere that we may be placed

  6. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Sandpoint, ID
    Posts
    1,969

    Default

    I get pass thru's on probably 90% of the deer I've shot in my life and the ones that haven't made it thru hit solid shoulder bone and stopped. Never shot anything bigger with a bow so I can't comment on big critters but I suspect something like that happens there too...a big rib, shoulder, spine or whatever. I think what happens after you loose the arrow is pretty much dependent on the arrow make-up and luck. A "perfect" shot can easily go wrong with just the twitch of a muscle or slight movement on the part of a target.

    I think the only thing wrong with not getting a pass thru is the smaller blood trail due to only one hole to let bloodout. Once the vitals are cut the animal is going to die...just a question of when and how far they can go before running out of blood in their brain. I think it is that simple..pass thru or not.

    I stopped using 3 and 4 blade broadheads about 20 years ago and went to only 2 blade cut on contact broadheads and my pass thrus have gone up a lot. I bought some mechanical broadheads this summer to try them this Fall and after seeing how much less they penetrate in my targets I gave up the idea of using them on animals. I know it is not scientific and others have had very good luck with mechanical broadheads but I'm not changing.
    Somewhere along the way I have lost the ability to act politically correct. If you should find it, please feel free to keep it.

  7. #7
    Moderator Daveinthebush's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Valdez, Alaska
    Posts
    4,402

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TWB View Post
    Why is it on all the big deer hunting tv shows, only half the shots I see are a pass through....on a deer??
    When you have to spend most of your time traveling and endorsing products you can't exercise much and only shoot 45 pounds.

    My preference would be a pass though and two holes for blood to drain out of. I have seen where deer have reached back and pulled arrows out before. Look at Marc's broadhead hole in the link below. Would you want one or two of these?

    http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/...-mech-vs-fixed

    Vietnam - June 70 - Feb. 72
    Cancer from Agent Orange - Aug. 25th 2012
    Cancer Survivor - Dec. 14th 2012

  8. #8
    Member AKDoug's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Talkeetna
    Posts
    5,714

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TWB View Post
    Why is it on all the big deer hunting tv shows, only half the shots I see are a pass through....on a deer??
    It's not low poundage, it's expandable broadheads. In the two deer I have personally looked at that have been shot with expendables, it was quite obvious the arrow penetrated one side of the rib cage, the expendable opened, and the big blades of the expandable stopped on the opposite side ribs. This still resulted in a dead dear, but also 20" of arrow sticking out the side the shot came from.
    Bunny Boots and Bearcats: Utility Sled Mayhem

  9. #9
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    north pole
    Posts
    634

    Default

    I second the benefit of a pass through, 2 wounds and more blood flow both lungs, hitting bone might be bad luck. people shoot alot of high teck bows with crazy poundage and light arrows.
    I shoot lower pounds and heavier arrows because i believe that a slow heavier arrow has more energy than a short light one to split or crack bones or ribs,
    I hit a moose high in spine and done deal dropped in tracks, out of the 5 moose i harvested with my bow all werre pass throughs except for the 1 quartering away shot I took, and that moose lived and traveled a long way on 1 lung, ended up putting 2 more arrows in it.

  10. #10
    Member mossyhorn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Woodland, Washington
    Posts
    866

    Default

    I think either one is good, but with today's equipment you're likely going to get a pass thru shot. With the way that the market has gone for bow hunting, speed has dominated. Arrows have gone from heavy large diameter aluminum shafts to small diameter carbon arrows. This alone has increased the degree of penetration that can be achieved. Even on larger game like elk and caribou you're likely to get a pass thru shot when broadside. I'll take the extra bit of penetration any day incase of a shot that hits bone. Heavier arrows tend to carry more kinetic energy, therefore more penetration but they have to have the speed to push them. I think there's a happy medium between speed and arrow weight that you want to be in, not out on one end or the other.

    As far as the tv guys not getting great penetration? Like someone else said, expandables. I've seen shots on tv where the entire shaft is sticking out the side of the deer. Somehow they always seem to find the animal though?

  11. #11
    Member Bullelkklr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Anchorage Alaska
    Posts
    4,835

    Default

    What you see on TV isn't necessarily what happened during the hunt.

    Two holes is always better than one and a good solid double lung 3 inches above and 3 inches behind the "elbow" will yield a dead animal in short order. The animal suffers less, you wait less, and you have a better blood trail.

    I have tagged 7 elk, many deer, a black bear, caribou, and antelope with my bow. Nothing as big as a moose - but they all have the same basic anatomy - you penetrate the lungs (both of them) and they will go down quickly if not pushed. Elk IMO are one of the tuffest NA game animals when it comes to the will to survive and a double lung shot does the trick cleanly on them.

    If you don't believe me - ask Chuck Adams - or read his article in this month's Bugle Magazine.

    I prefer medium to heavy class arrows, cut on contact broadheads, comfortable draw weight, and then I rely on shot placement to get the job done swiftly. I have had animals not even know that they have been hit, continue to feed, then tip right over without hardly moving a step. That is how it should be done - euthenasia at its finest.

  12. #12
    Member Smokey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Central Illinois
    Posts
    3,334

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TWB View Post
    Why is it on all the big deer hunting tv shows, only half the shots I see are a pass through....on a deer??
    Most of those shows are using expandables and they do not get as many pass throughs. Expandables will kill but I sure prefer pass throughs with fixed and most fixed will hold together better when a tougher hit happens giving the archer better odds of hitting something important. Remember those guys on TV need sponsors and paychecks so one has to wonder how many lost animals the viewer never see's or hears about...
    I have taken more than a hundred big game anmals with arrows and I will take a pass through everytime vs an arrow stuck in the game hoping it flops around and does more damage...An entry and exit hole in a vital organ is guranteed lethal...
    When asked what state I live in I say "The State of Confusion", better known as IL....

  13. #13
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Anchorage
    Posts
    401

    Default


    I'm sure glad this is getting a little discussion.Nothing worse than starting a Thread and nobody responds. I have mixed thoughts on this. I wish there was a way to make two holes and still leave the working end of the arrow in the animal. Once the broad head is out of the animals itís not working for you anymore. If I am hunting out of a tree stand I like two holes. From an elevated stand the entrance hole better be high on the animal and if there isn't an exit hole you probably won't get much of a blood trail if any. If I am hunting on the ground and take a perfectly broad side shot more than likely I will get a pass through both on deer and elk and many others (I haven't shot a moose yet)and get plenty of blood. On quartering away shots I will get pass through (depends on the angle) but sometimes I will hit the offside shoulder and the arrow won't make an exit hole. If the shot is low and tight where it is supposed to be I will still get plenty of blood and my arrow will still be in the animal doing what it was designed to do. I shot an elk one year and it was really quartering away and I took him behind the last rib, it angled forward and went deep into everything that made him live. No blood but he fell in a few short steps. So for me it depends, if in a tree stand when the entrance wounds are high on the animal I want an exit hole for a better trail. But when on the horizontal I don't mind when the arrow stays in the animal. I have never had a problem with the lack of blood except on that one elk when I shot him way back and angled the arrow forward but it didnít matter because he feel with in sight. Two holes donít make the animal bleed any more it just gives a second hole for the blood to drain, producing more spilled blood on the ground.These are just my thoughts and opinions.
    Olin

  14. #14
    Member Smokey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Central Illinois
    Posts
    3,334

    Default

    I did some fairly extensive tests on game using expandables some years back, and yes there are some better models today that I didn't get to try however here is what I found.
    A high percentage of the expandables did not pass through even on great broadside shots. Most would hit a bone on the far side and then bounce back/out of the game since the design would allow the wings to collapse as it went backwards. Thus, fixed heads had more of a tendancy to remain inside and continue to cause damage if they did not pass through. So in my opinion fixed offer a much higher chance of killing with either a pass through or a single entry shot.....
    The game lost from no blood trail left because of a none exit went up dramatically even with good killing hits when in tough terrain. I lost more game in those 2 years than in 40 other years combined using fixed heads...
    When asked what state I live in I say "The State of Confusion", better known as IL....

  15. #15
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Sandpoint, ID
    Posts
    1,969

    Default

    Yes Sir...I'm with you Smokey. 2 blade cut on contact razor sharp just plain work.
    Somewhere along the way I have lost the ability to act politically correct. If you should find it, please feel free to keep it.

  16. #16

    Default

    I also prefer 2 holes over 1 everytime I can get it.

    The big question about even thinking of trying to stop a bh of any kind in the rib cage is what happens when you set yourself up for that style of shot and end up with a bad shot? I want the most my equipment can give me. I may never shoot completely through a moose but so far have been pretty happy with an arrow sticking out the otherside.

    Comparing say a caribou to an elk is like comparing a ford to a volkswagon. Caribou, thin skinned, thin boned just thick wide body. Which means having different set ups for different game.

    The old heavy arrows of old only lacked in diameter what the newer heavier carbons are producing with a smaller diameter. The big trend is going to heavier heads increasing foc and gaining more pentration. most people playing with penetration have learned a heavier arrow all things being equal is going to out penetrate a super light one. Comparing most arrows today to what some guys are shooting is like having one guy shooting a 22 and another a 45-70. Neither may or may not be wrong and dead is dead.....again I say what happens when you end up with a bad shot? is it the bows fault? maybe...is it the arrows? maybe..the head? maybe.....

    Things come into play like blade angles/lengths that rare gets talked about. Cut on contact is good but a super short head trying to do all the cutting on a steeper blade angle is going to penetrate much less than a longer head of the same diameter. Soft tissue (chest cavity) will be easy to penetrate for most if not all of us and our choosen gear. Very few talk about perfect arrow flight....anything less than that is going to really mess up your penetration.

    I think personally the best thing you can do is get as much as you can out of the gear you shoot, in my case a stick a string and another sharp pointy stick. I can still shoot through most game at the ranges I hunt at (30 or less). I'd rather find my arrow on the other side, than leave it in the animal. the arrow is invaluable, a large piece to a puzzle that can confirm or deny or completely disprove where an animal was shot. what we think/thought happened and what really did will usually be told by the arrow if you can find it, or if it was hit at all. I have a good story about a 8 step shot on a whitetail doe I stalked. Everything was perfect. Even heard the watermelon plunk. It was about 3am when we finally found the arrow, clean as a whistle! Embarrasing...for sure, but a very good lesson at finding the arrow if possible!

    And I definatly agree on the whitetail comment. My last whitetail was a monster doe. ended up clipping the shoulder and still managed to have the arrow out the otherside not a complete pass through as the arrow didnt fall out. Same bow, same large diameter shaft, same exact head similar arrow weights. There's more to penetration speed, or arrow weight (or lack there of). Its a mind boggling subject that has so many factors everyone can be right and wrong in the sentence.

  17. #17
    Member Marc Taylor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Anchorage, AK
    Posts
    1,279

    Default

    TWO HOLES means you sliced all the vitals from the first hole to the second. Many times you will not get much bleeding. Goats may fail to leave any trail due to DENSE hair immediately absorbing any blood. And with bears (especially) fat will close the wound really fast. You want laceration to blood-transporting artery or large vessels to promote bleeding and expire the animal quickly.

    A one-lung shot can be BAD news to the tracker. It may be a long day. If you're good, you'll recover it, with additional killing shots generally, but an animal can go a long way on one lung and some adrenalin.

    I've learned my lessons and now will almost NEVER take anything other than and exposed-vital shot. It's tempting, but what CAN happen MAY happen and it detracts from the experience whichever way it turns out.

  18. #18
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    north pole
    Posts
    634

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Taylor View Post
    TWO HOLES means you sliced all the vitals from the first hole to the second. Many times you will not get much bleeding. Goats may fail to leave any trail due to DENSE hair immediately absorbing any blood. And with bears (especially) fat will close the wound really fast. You want laceration to blood-transporting artery or large vessels to promote bleeding and expire the animal quickly.

    A one-lung shot can be BAD news to the tracker. It may be a long day. If you're good, you'll recover it, with additional killing shots generally, but an animal can go a long way on one lung and some adrenalin.

    I've learned my lessons and now will almost NEVER take anything other than and exposed-vital shot. It's tempting, but what CAN happen MAY happen and it detracts from the experience whichever way it turns out.
    Well said and could not agree more, I took a shot at a caribou up on the slope a few years ago he was quartering away, I shot he ran and didnt even act hurt, in fact he stopped at 60 yards and looked at me and I didnt see a wound even with bino's, he then trotted off,
    at first I was pissed cause i thought i missed at 20 yards, went over to look for blood found none only when I found my arrow and picked it up did my hands get sticky and then I turned and looked at the bull about 500 yards away and he fell over. I walked the same trial and found zero blood but when i cut him open his whole body was full of blood.

  19. #19
    Member Chris68's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Anchorage
    Posts
    52

    Default

    Couldnt agree more.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bullelkklr View Post
    What you see on TV isn't necessarily what happened during the hunt.

    Two holes is always better than one and a good solid double lung 3 inches above and 3 inches behind the "elbow" will yield a dead animal in short order. The animal suffers less, you wait less, and you have a better blood trail.

    I have tagged 7 elk, many deer, a black bear, caribou, and antelope with my bow. Nothing as big as a moose - but they all have the same basic anatomy - you penetrate the lungs (both of them) and they will go down quickly if not pushed. Elk IMO are one of the tuffest NA game animals when it comes to the will to survive and a double lung shot does the trick cleanly on them.

    If you don't believe me - ask Chuck Adams - or read his article in this month's Bugle Magazine.

    I prefer medium to heavy class arrows, cut on contact broadheads, comfortable draw weight, and then I rely on shot placement to get the job done swiftly. I have had animals not even know that they have been hit, continue to feed, then tip right over without hardly moving a step. That is how it should be done - euthenasia at its finest.

  20. #20
    Member akchase's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Anchorage
    Posts
    42

    Default

    I would like to add that i have watched many kill shots and what I have figured out is this, If you do a high lung pass through the lungs have the tendancy to fill with blood and leave very little blood trail. where as a pass though of a low lung shot pours blood like a faucet. I have noted that The high lung pass through kills two fold. first by hemorage the second by suffocation with the lungs filling with blood. The low lung pours blood and kills by bleeding the animal out make a great blood trail. My opinion is the the high lung kills faster then the low lung

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •