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Thread: Showing proof your a res.

  1. #1
    Member martentrapper's Avatar
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    Default Showing proof your a res.

    DonV's post and the responses got me to wondering. So.............has anyone here, or anyone you know personally, ever had to show proof of residency when PURCHASING a license?
    You guys in the big towns, when you buy a license, good chance the person selling it doesn't know you. Now if you already have last years license, that's proof right there. Alot of folks I'm sure, just whip out last years lic. when filling out the new lic. But what if you don't have the old lic. with you? A DL isn't proof of res. So has anyone ever asked for any documentation that you really are a res?
    My understanding is, the only time you MAY be asked for proof is if a trooper stops you in the field, or is someone reports you as a suspectd non res. Have any of you been asked to show proof of res when in the field?
    I can't help being a lazy, dumb, weekend warrior.......I have a JOB!
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  2. #2
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    Default not sure

    MT on your license you have to say how long you have been a resident. I am not sure if the troopers here do what the conservation officers do in the lower 48 or not. Down there they go through records and cross refrence them with other states. They bust ALOT of people claiming double residency in the lower 48. A guy I knew was a resident in Minnesota, North Dakota, and South Dakota. He got busted and lost hunting and fishing priviliges in all three states for 2 or 3 years.

  3. #3

    Question In the field?

    How can a trooper ask for proof of residency in the field? I don't know to many people that carry bills, old licenses, or pay stubs with them when they are hunting/fishing. I've never been asked to show proof, they usually just ask, you tell them and thats it. Now it's different for a PFD but we're not talking about PFD's.

  4. #4
    New member akhunter02's Avatar
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    Default Cross reference

    Fisermann222, yes, alaska does the same thing, had a friend who was military who was caught by alaska, he claimed residency of alaska, but had also purchased a Montana resisdent hunting Lic, I think pretty much every state cross references

  5. #5

    Default

    I have never heard of cross referencing here in the lower 48, but then again I do everything legal. Not heard of anyone else pulling that stunt and getting caught, but it is a good idea for them to check it.

    My favorite was an insurance company in Maine got the great idea to cross reference claims of short term disability (sick) with the list of successfull Maine moose permit holders from the statewide drawing for permits, they caught A LOT of guys who clamied to be hurt/sick and took off to moose hunt! I think it was something like 10% or more of claims were guys who drew a permit! This is a hard permit to draw so 10% is not a coincidence!

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    Default residency

    The AK Dept. of fish and game regulations state that a person claiming residency must be physically present in Alaska for 12 consecutive months with the intent to stay.
    This info can be found online at http://www.admin.adfg.state.ak.us/li...residency.html
    This regulation would be acknowleging that proof of that residency be required. A DrLic by itself is not proof.

  7. #7
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    Default Residency

    Read it again. It say is physically present to purchase. Then domicile for 12 months.

    This is the problem! Most states are very specific on number of days you have to be physically present in the state our of 12 months.

    There are not very many people that don't take a vacation out of the state for vacation, doctors, etc. Ever go across the border to Canada, then you are not physically present in Alaska!

    Be careful.
    CuriousOne

  8. #8
    New member akhunter02's Avatar
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    Default not a resident

    If you read all of Dons posts about is sister, sounds like she moves a lot, and if you read the diffenition of a Resident, I dont think she qualifies, sounds like she will move on with in the next year, no intent to remain

  9. #9
    Member 8x57 Mauser's Avatar
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    Default Let's go to the rulebook

    From the Alaska statutes:

    AS 16.05.940(11) "domicile" means the true and permanent home of a person from which the person has no present intention of moving and to which the person intends to return whenever the person is away; domicile may be proved by presenting evidence acceptable to the boards of fisheries and game;
    ...
    (27) "resident" means
    (A) a person who for the 12 consecutive months immediately preceding the time when the assertion of residence is made has maintained the person's domicile in the state and who is neither claiming residency in another state, territory, or country nor obtaining benefits under a claim of residency in another state, territory, or country;
    (B) a partnership, association, joint stock company, trust, or corporation that has its main office or headquarters in the state; a natural person who does not otherwise qualify as a resident under this paragraph may not qualify as a resident by virtue of an interest in a partnership, association, joint stock company, trust, or corporation;
    (C) a member of the military service, or United States Coast Guard, who has been stationed in the state for the 12 consecutive months immediately preceding the time when the assertion of residence is made;
    (D) a person who is the dependent of a resident member of the military service, or the United States Coast Guard, and who has lived in the state for the 12 consecutive months immediately preceding the time when the assertion of residence is made; or
    (E) an alien who for the 12 consecutive months immediately preceding the time when the assertion of residence is made has maintained the person's domicile in the state and who is neither claiming residency in another state, territory, or country nor obtaining benefits under a claim of residency in another state, territory, or country;

    Taken together, it seems pretty clear to me that you can go on vacation during the 12 months without a problem. These aren't the PFD rules, which require you to have been physically present in the state for 180 consecutive days before you qualify for your first dividend. (After that, the PFD lets you break up your vacations the way you like, subject to annual maximums on days out of state.)

    To further clarify, lets look at the Fish & Game regs on "domicile" and what constitutes evidence thereof:

    5 AAC 92.990: (14) "domicile" means the location of a person's primary residence; evidence of domicile includes
    (A) a statement made to obtain a license to drive, hunt, fish, or engage in an activity regulated by a government entity;
    (B) an affidavit of the person, or of another person who may know of that person's domicile;
    (C) the place of voter registration;
    (D) the location of a residence owned, rented, or leased;
    (E) the location where household goods are stored;
    (F) the location of a business owned or operated;
    (G) the residence of a spouse or minor children or dependents;
    (H) a government to which a tax is paid; and
    (I) evidence indicating whether the person has claimed residence in another location for the purpose of obtaining benefits provided by the government in that location;

    Notice that in their list of evidence they include both the things you can use to prove you really are domiciled somewhere and things they can use to prove you aren't. Criminal charges take proof beyond a reasonable doubt, but civil fines only require "a preponderance of the evidence."

    If your sister owns real estate Outside, you and she will need to be more careful than if she doesn't. If she has kids living Outside, or plans to go somewhere else for months at a time, consider carefully whether she really is a resident for purposes of her hunting license and whether she accompanies you in the field.

    I'm not a lawyer, and even if I claimed to be, you wouldn't want to take my advice on an internet board without independent verification. That said, what you've told us all here suggests your sister will probably be legal to accompany you in the field--assuming you haven't left out any relevant details.

    But when it's all said and done, you have to ask yourself: If she doesn't get out in the woods much and can't carry more than a 25 lb pack, are you really sure she's the one you want accompanying you for game that can eat you, and to pursue game in country that kills experienced mountain hikers and hunters more years than not?

    I've lived in Alaska my entire life, and I seriously debated hiring a guide for mountain goat this fall. Not because I doubt my ability to hunt them, but because we're hunting some intense mountains, and don't already know the area well. In the end, my brother managed to come along - he places in Alaska climbing competitions and really knows his stuff.

    Think hard, DonV, and seriously consider a mountain pro before you commit.

  10. #10
    Member bushrat's Avatar
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    Default 8x57...well said

    8x57,

    Just wanted to offer thanks for the research and comments. Well done and well said. Glad your brother is going with you for goat; good luck.

    Best, Mark

  11. #11

    Lightbulb Deployed Soldiers?

    I was wondering if there were any clauses for soldiers who are stationed in Alaskia and has been so for over a year and then get deployed. They are not physically in Alaska, but are still have residents there. It would seem unfair to penalize some one for an "excused absence".

  12. #12

    Default

    From the regs: "You are considered an Alaskan resident if you are in the armed services or Coast Guard and were stationed in Alaska 12 months preceding your application for a license". The keyword being "stationed", it says nothing about being in the state the whole 12 months. I would call wildlife enforcement to verify but I think you are ok and would be able to hunt as a resident.

  13. #13
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    Default 8x57

    Good job on the research and statement.
    As all us residents know, when we moved here the residency requirements just happen. No real worrying over it is necessary. Before you know it , you're a resident and are able to legally prove it.

  14. #14
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    Default cross checking

    I believe Alaska cross checks hunting licenses with the permanent fund list too. While it takes a little longer to obtain a PFD, if you claim residency on your hunting license, they'll take a hard look at why you didn't apply for a PFD.

  15. #15

    Default

    Mauser, thanks a lot that is good info

    My sister does move around a lot and this is why I am checking everything closely, and if she moves I will not go.

    I will argue intent to stay all day long, complete b s in my opinion. If some was thinking about moving in 2 years they cannot buy a resident hunting license or hunt griz/sheep? No way. My sister has no idea where she intends to live for the rest of her life, and I bet half the 18 year old kids who hunt feel the same way, better make then pony up for a NR license!

    If my sister moves I will not be able to go but if she stays and is not sure she will be there in 50 years I am going with her as my guide.

    If you obey the letter of the law you cannot be a resident for hunting if you ever think about moving!

    Can every one of you say (residents) never thought about moving?

  16. #16
    New member akhunter02's Avatar
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    Default true

    Your right, you can argue intent all day long, and your also right that there are many alaskan residents who plan on retireing in another state. However, its a bit hard to compare someone who has lived here in AK for 20 years to your sister, who has not stayed in one place very long. You your self said she has only spent the summers here over the past 5 years, that she moves a lot, her track record indicates she wont be in alaska long, hell, she most likely wont make it thru the winter. Once the temps start dropping and it hits -50 I bet shes gone..

    i hate to sound so negative, and its nothing against you, hell, ive even helped you out with sheep hunting spots; but I think you know your sisters residency is very questionable, and that she wont be hanging in Alaska very long, so you want to take advantage if you can. Not that I blame you, but dont talk about intent to those of us who have lived here for decades.

  17. #17

    Default

    I can agree with that, and yes, I do suspect she might not last this winter, if she does, and makes it a year and meets the requirement I am going, otherwise I will plan a hunt without her and not go for sheep and moose, I do appreciate the help and right now my plan is to wait the winter out and look into hunts I can do without any type of guide and possibly also look into concellation hunts for sheep and griz.

    My sister does love AK the most, she has told me that - I specifically asked her because of that clause in the law. However she tends to follow around whoever she is dating at the time, so if he goes she goes. I hope he stays the winter! Maybe I should get them some conceling appointments! joking of course

    Time will tell

  18. #18
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    Default

    DonV, I hope you are very careful. From what you post, your sister does not yet have resident status and may never make it. You can read the State Trooper "blotter" and see that they do, in fact, bust people on a regular basis for not meeting residency status, even if short only a month. Your thoughts about planning a hunt where a guide/family member is not required, like moose or caribou, is a very good thought.
    Military members who will not be residents, purchase nonresident miltary license aftyer they have been stationed here a full year. The license is the same as a resident license as well as the costs. The Elmendorf BX asked for my orders when I originally bought my license after the year, I'm not sure if they do it all the time. But now I'm a resident so the problem no longer exists.

  19. #19
    New member Steve's Avatar
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    Default Busted...

    I had a friend (no longer so) that hunted here as a resident when he clearly wasn't. He shot a sheep and then got busted - I don't know how. The result was 11 criminal charges, a $2500 fine, a confiscated a beautifully mounted ram, and he lost hunting privileges for 3 years.

    He's done in Alaska. It was unpleasant enough (as it should be) that he won't be coming back.

    Btw, the way he did it was to hop off the plane, get a drivers license (he kept his other drivers license), and then headed to Wal-mart to buy a resident tag. No questions asked. Bam, instant resident.

    I knew he did it, suggested it was a BAD idea, but I figured he was a big boy. I didn't hunt with him and wasn't involved. I didn't turn him in, but probably should have (I struggled with the ethics of it). In the long run it didn't matter since he got nailed anyhow, which was a relief to me.

    My suggestion is simply this - be very careful. The residency rule is one that's easy to catch, and one that the Troopers love to enforce, which I for one very much appreciate.

    [DonV, I didn't mean to suggest that you were planning to break or push the law. Your posts have been very clear that you're plan is to follow the residency rules. I simply wanted to share a real example of someone pushing the law and getting caught.]

    Steve
    Last edited by Steve; 06-16-2006 at 09:14.

  20. #20

    Default

    I do not plan to break the law, if my sister moves then I am done, if she stays but goes home to visit this is where I get nervous, becase I do not know how long she will be gone.

    Also I am worried she will file taxes wrong or something else, I have no idea what she does since she moves a lot, but I am sure there are things out there that might make it look like she lives elsewhere, even if she does not.

    I do not plan to push the law, I will not do that and I sure as heck would not drag my sister into some illegal ploy so I can hunt. That is not who I am or what I do, I take pride in obeying the laws and hunting legaly.

    DonV Ohio

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