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Thread: 10mm 180gr Remington "cup and core" on game

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    Default 10mm 180gr Remington "cup and core" on game

    Has anyone here used the green boxed Remington 180gr, flat point, MC on game? It has decent velocity (1100fps) and should penetrate well. I don't expect or want expansion, for my purpose. I am curious about how well this "cup and core" built bullet will hold together. This is not going to be used as a "Hunting" bullet, but as a "woods carry" round. Most of what I see online is people shooting water jugs.

    My 500 S&W is still my favorite revolver, but these days, it's size and weight have me leaving it behind more and more. I've shifted to a 10mm Glock. When I've asked about this in other forums, I get a lot of "Use hardcast lead" answers. Can someone help me understand why hardcast is preferable to a jacketed for this use. At 1100fps I don't see either expanding. I'm asking this because a friend has passed away and his wife gave me his ammo, including 700 rounds of this Remington factory ammo.

    Thanks

  2. #2

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    Dunno if my experiences will relate or not, since it has always been 44 mag rather than your 10mm. I've whanged a fair bit of game with the 240 in both SP and HP, and with the 180 HP. The 240s are launched out of my 4" at around 1100, and at pretty close to 1400 from longer barrels. The HP has expanded pretty reliably while holding together in a classic mushroom @ 1400, but little if any at 1100. The SPs have never expanded to speak of from either gun- even on some pretty close shots. The 180 HP is the only reliable expander I've found @ 1100 from the 4", and it runs out of expansion much past about 30 yards. It pretty much flattens out to full expansion without coming apart @ 1400 at ranges from about 20' to 50 yards, but no expansion to speak of beyond that.

    I'm betting that your surmise about little or no expansion with your 10mm 180's @ 1100 is pretty close to right on. I'm certainly a fan of hardcast, but when I get a "deal" on jacketed bullets I'm not going to pass it up. I'm also not going to write it off for game and relegate it to soda cans until I've poked some game with it. In your shoes, I'd take it out and pop some deer or something before making up your mind about using it for a protection load. Sure deer are different than bruins, but a whole lot better than jugs of water for testing.

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    Sorry to here about your friend, may he rest well and my condolences.

    With 10mm you want the hard cast lead for a woods defensive load because 1> They are heavier available in 200, 220, and even 230, 2> You can attain about the same velocity with a 200g cast as you can a 180g jackit, 3> They far out penetrate lighter jacketed bullet through bone. I load 200g cast to 1350fps and 220g to just under 1300fps in my 5-ĺĒ 10mm as woods defensive loads, I donít load the 230s because I canít push them hard enough not to key-hole by 30-40 yards.

    The 180 you have is good ammo and would hunt well because you can pick shots and pass on any poor angles. In a defensive situation with a brown you canít pick angles that avoid bone and that ammo isnít the best option, sure better than stickin your finger to his eye but not as good as heavy hard cast. Itís good useful hunting ammo and good for most defensive situations with man or moose just not as good for bear. Sense we are talking a marginal power caliber (10mm) for bear defense anyway youíd want the best bear defense ammo in it you can get if you are planning to use it for that.


    Iíd advise that you buy a box of Double Tap 200g cast for your woods defensive carry and use the 180s for everything else until gone.
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    I've been using the G20 SF here over the last two years on various animals and various ammo loads. The standard load 180 Gr MC FP is made by several different ammo makers, having different names but is the same stuff. Velocities will vary from about 1050 to 1150. I am very disappointed in the performance of this load. I have used it on coyotes, cats and armadillos. The last one is notoriously hard to kill. The load will bust the hull but almost never fully incapacitation or lethal. On 'yotes they show no signs of a hit at first. The kitty got away with blood trail. By contrast for animals of this weight, the 165 grain Hornady critical duty is much better, two dead 'yotes, three shots. ranging out to about 60 yards. I would not recommend the 180 MC load for deer or human targets or anything other than yard pest and vermin. I've dispatched several ground hogs, two with multiple hits of this hard ball, two with the 165 grain HP or CD and they are much more decisive. The 165 grain are generally about 1250 fps.

    All my 180 grain MC loads exit the animals, largest a forty pound coyote, so penetration isn't the issue, it just needs to expand to be effective. A crossways double lung shot would work for deer sized game but it would be a long run or slow demise. My guess is that in smaller animals the bullet does not deform but may veer off course and that would reduce its effectiveness. I have taken deer with the 10mm but that in a 6.5" revolver and hard cast 220's They were about 1200 fps hand loads. I have a forty caliber 16" barreled carbine that gives greater velocities that the 4.5" pistol in 10mm. It is not effective with the winchester 180 grain MC FP load which chronographs at 930 fps from 4.5" and 1190 fps from 16". Armadillos just shrug it off. So............ I'm going to say paper and cardboard are the best thing to hunt with the 180 grain MC.

    The double tap stuff is loaded to the limit and performance is generally much better but it is still a handgun and cannot perform like a rifle.

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    Last edited by Murphy; 09-26-2012 at 19:22.
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    Yip, pretty much the same experience as Murphy. Hand loaded hard cast is my choice.
    Somewhere along the way I have lost the ability to act politically correct. If you should find it, please feel free to keep it.

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    "The double tap stuff is loaded to the limit and performance is generally much better but it is still a handgun and cannot perform like a rifle."

    Sometimes the facts just ain't no fun! It looks like that 180gr MC stuff will be my plinking/practice ammo.

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    If Murphy can't kill armadillos with it that stuff must really be bad. I grew up in OK and have probably shot a thousand of the rascals, mostly with a Ruger Single Six with LR cylinder, and never had one need more than two shots at most.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Kid View Post
    If Murphy can't kill armadillos with it that stuff must really be bad. I grew up in OK and have probably shot a thousand of the rascals, mostly with a Ruger Single Six with LR cylinder, and never had one need more than two shots at most.
    They are tougher now. I'm serious. I used to shoot them with my 1911 when visiting in south Texas but they take two or more shots now. I borrowed a friends 17 HMR. He said it just slays them. I knocked pieces out of them with lots of juice but three got away.
    They go off in the woods at night and I don't chase after 'em. Nobody but a fool would go in the bush after a wounded Armadillo.......N0, wait that's Apaches, not Armadillos. Anyway they're tough.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



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    .22-250=red spray and empty shell....at least that's the way it worked on Florida 'dillos....of course they are surely more woosie than TX bred ones.
    Somewhere along the way I have lost the ability to act politically correct. If you should find it, please feel free to keep it.

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    I think itís a sign of the moon thing or something, Iíve stopped them dead with a little 22 then seen others that refuse to die after being about cut in half with a 12 gage.

    First one I ever saw my Texan cousin walked right up behind, grabbed his tail and ripped him off the ground then held on till he quit kickin. He then hopped in the cab of my pick-up and said ď head to the house so we can put him in the pot.Ē So weíre driving down a Texas farm road Johnny Lee holding a live diller between us by the tail suspended over the seat. Well not long into this his arm starts tuckerin out and Mr diller gets lower and lower till his front claws touch the seat. Soon as they touched that sucker flat out exploded, Johnny Lee lost his grip and Mr diller goes to bouncing off all the windows and us like that flubber stuff in the old Disney movie.

    Now remember, this was the first one Iíd ever seen, heíd let my cousin walk up to him and hadnít hardly done nothing so I had no idea they could do anything but waddle around lookin ugly till the sucker started cannon balling around the cab of my truck looking for a way out. Well boys I tried to vacate the cab of my brand new Dodge Power Wagon at highway speeds, I plumb lost my cool all together thinking that ugly thing was about to eat me . . . thank god I couldnít find the door handle before Mr diller found a dark place under the seat. He was good enough eatin but thatís been 35 years and Johnny Lee still laughs at me about it every time I see him, dang do I hate them ugly things.

    Murphy I ainít spooked of no wounded armadillo (anymore anyway) but I wouldnít venture into the tall grass at night in chigger and snakes country after one ether.
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    I like your stories, AD:

    We never had Armadillos in Missouri when I grew up.

    According to my beeg brother, they gott'em now.

    It must be due to Global Warming.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty of the North View Post
    I like your stories, AD:

    We never had Armadillos in Missouri when I grew up.

    According to my beeg brother, they gott'em now.

    It must be due to Global Warming.

    Smitty of the North
    Well my Grandpa was born in Waco Texas 1893 and there werenít any there ether when he was a kid I was told. First he saw one was on a trip back there with my Dad in the 40s just after the war. Dad caught him one as a pet, he planed to bring it back to Arizona with him. They made it to Oklahoma with it and it got away at a farm near Lawton, our family in Oklahoma still blames my Dad for bringing armadillos to Oklahoma.

    The world is a changing all the time. When I was a kid stink pigs (javelina) were a Sothern Arizona thing, now Prescott is over run and they are all the way up north of Kingman. In Texas I saw cattle egrets riding the cattle around in the 80s and commented to my cousin that I hadnít seen that before. He said nobody had till that spring, they just showed up all at once and started braking the cows to ride. Fire ants, killer bees . . . this ole world is a strange and fluid place.
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    It's the infestation of liberals that worries me....worse than killer bees, zebra mussles or fire ants. Maybe they cause global warming too...never was a problem until Al Gore started up a business with it.
    Somewhere along the way I have lost the ability to act politically correct. If you should find it, please feel free to keep it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lowrider View Post
    It's the infestation of liberals that worries me....worse than killer bees, zebra mussles or fire ants. Maybe they cause global warming too...never was a problem until Al Gore started up a business with it.
    I hear ya, donít buy global worming a bit. Being an Arizona boy I know they manulate weather the data to show whatever they want. I wasnít just real good in school but seems I remember something about we are exiting an ice-age and the planet had been trending hotter for thousands of years . . . seems to me they just found a way to cry wolf and make money off it.
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    Weren't no dillers back then cuz the oppossums weren't breeding the turtles yet. I wouldn't be surprized but what Al Gore or slick Willy got that started too. Prolly Al hung onto the turtle whilst Slick Willy smeared him up with possum in rut dope. What? I've seen lots of possums and weren't none of them any smarter than Al or Willy. Not by much anyways.

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    It is your fault Andy, I grew up right around Lawton and our ranch was infested with your grandads dillers offspring. Probably the one he lost was plum full of eggs and when they hatched we were doomed from there on. It's a little known fact that armadillos can lay as many as 1000 eggs in a clutch.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Kid View Post
    It is your fault Andy, I grew up right around Lawton and our ranch was infested with your grandads dillers offspring. Probably the one he lost was plum full of eggs and when they hatched we were doomed from there on. It's a little known fact that armadillos can lay as many as 1000 eggs in a clutch.
    Oh I donít know about all that Kid but them baby dillers are so ugly that theys kinda cute! We may be related, ya got Barbee or Fields in your roots?
    Andy
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    Did a little backyard test with some Doubletap 200gr and the Remington 180gr MC.
    http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/show...80&postcount=7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ennis View Post
    Did a little backyard test with some Doubletap 200gr and the Remington 180gr MC.
    http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/show...80&postcount=7
    Now that's interesting to me. The .429's I referenced all had pretty thin jackets out front and still didn't expand at the referenced velocities. The heavy jacket tells me Rem REALLY didn't want the 10mm to expand.

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    How about XTP's? Anyone try them?
    Somewhere along the way I have lost the ability to act politically correct. If you should find it, please feel free to keep it.

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