View Poll Results: Should teachers be allowed to carry concealed weapons at school?

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  • Yes

    91 82.73%
  • No

    19 17.27%
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Thread: armed teachers?

  1. #1
    Member walk-in's Avatar
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    Default armed teachers?

    This subject comes up periodically....especially after school shootings. Here in Alaska, even though we can carry concealed without a permit, teachers are not allowed to carry concealed weapons in school. Should they be?

  2. #2
    Member spoiled one's Avatar
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    Talking classroom management

    I always thought a paint ball gun would make an awesome classroom management tool.
    Spending my kids' inheritance with them, one adventure at a time.

  3. #3
    Mark
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    I'm not sure if we're ready for all teachers to carry weapons. I'll bet most would simply refuse, anyway.

    But at least one armed security guard in each school is clearly needed.

    Maybe instead of firearms we should just arm teachers and administrators with the legal tools to get jerks, idiots, and predators out of the facility. Maybe a bigger alternative school capability is needed, and there have tighter controls and disciplinary practices.

  4. #4

    Default Duhh

    Want to get little Johnnies attention zap his bu## with a tazer. It brings a whole new meaning to the term "institute of higher learning". It's non-lethal but the parents might get a little outraged.
    " Americans will never need the 2nd Amendment, until the government tries to take it away."

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  5. #5
    Moderator Daveinthebush's Avatar
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    Default Yes

    Most teachers if need be would lay their life on the line to defend the kids. We may not be their parents but we spend a lot of time with them over the 4-6 years that we might know them. You can have a handgun on school property ( unloaded in a locked car in a locked vehicle) but getting to it would be a difficult in a situation.

    Having one security guard is only a token gesture. Our high school has 14-15 entrances where someone could get in. I work there and some days do not even see other staff unless at meetings. And, Valdez is not that big of a school.

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  6. #6
    Mark
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daveinthebush View Post
    Most teachers if need be would lay their life on the line to defend the kids. We may not be their parents but we spend a lot of time with them over the 4-6 years that we might know them. You can have a handgun on school property ( unloaded in a locked car in a locked vehicle) but getting to it would be a difficult in a situation.
    The airline pilot thing might serve as an example. Pilots are allowed to carry, but it is their choice.

    The obvious difference is that pilots are locked up in their cockpit, and don't see the same passengers daily for months.

    A teacher who carries will eventually be known to carry by students, and the word will get out (at least among students).

    Having one security guard is only a token gesture. Our high school has 14-15 entrances where someone could get in. I work there and some days do not even see other staff unless at meetings. And, Valdez is not that big of a school.
    I agree. A single armed security guard isn't a guarantee that someone couldn't infiltrate the school.

    But it would be at least one armed person on the side of society. If the shooting did start, that one, trained security person could respond quicker than police, and could clearly be a "front line" observation to coordinate rescue/counterattack with arriving police by radio/cell phone in addition to being a front line armed defense.

    By starting with such a measure (which, really, we already have in many high schools, even in Anchorage), the "antis" have many of their arguments negated: "untrained", "unregulated", "wild west environment", etc/ad nauseum.

  7. #7
    Moderator AKmud's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Another 'Yes' vote

    I don't think it should be required, but let those teachers/administrators who are interested (and have a valid CCW permit) carry if they want to. When little Billy Badboy decides to plan the next school shooting, he may think twice knowing that the teachers may be able to take him out prior to accomplishing his morbid goal.

    I'd bet there wasn't a student in that V-Tech. class that would say they were glad the school recently modified their rules so no one was allowed to carry concealed on campus. A few folks with their concealed weapons probably would have changed the outcome of that incident tremendously.

    I love how the media is spinning this to be the guns fault. They were sure quick to point out how the 10 rd. limitation was recently allowed to expire.

    The quote "An armed society is a polite society" is one of my favorites!
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  8. #8
    Member lab man's Avatar
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    Thumbs down

    While I would love to have a gun in school, there are teachers that I would absolutly not trust with a handgun. I think a good middle ground would be for me and a few select people to carry them.

    -Eric

    I don't know why there is a thumb down, can't change it.

  9. #9
    Moderator Paul H's Avatar
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    Default

    Not quite sure where I stand on teachers carrying. What I would really like to see is madatory firearm safety classes in schools.

    While the massacre in Virginia was a tragedy, many more children are lost to firearm accidents each year.

  10. #10
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    Default not just teachers and not just school

    I voted yes but with reservations.

    Those reservations being to stop the dividing of groups for carry...teachers, pilots etc.

    Everyone should have a right to carry everywhere regardless of occupation unless it is for some safety reason (MRI scanner operator)as long as they havent been proven to be a threat to anyone or to be incompetent.

    Lockable safe walls should be at every place where safety requires removing all metal (MRI) or no combustables (fireworks plant) etc.

    Common sense things.

    Teachers are with your kids all day.....do you think they can't get gasoline or knives? If you don't trust them with a firearms safety/profiency class and carring a weapon then why are you sending your children to them?

    Not only would I want my kids teachers to carry, I would like to hunt and shoot with them to see how good they were.

    If they need help I could try helping them and if they were crack shots it would raise my confidence level in the school safety.

    jedi

  11. #11

    Default not for it-

    As a teacher (as well as firearm owner) I wouldn't want to have one or other staff members in my building bring weapons to school. I think if you have guns in school period, except maybe in the attached to the hip of a trained law enforcemnt officer, they will end up in the wrong hands.

  12. #12

    Default

    I agree with jedi rifleman.

    The whole point behind the right to carry is the basic fundamental right to protect one's self. It is the most basic of natural rights. If the state or subdivision of the state reserves that right, then the state has a contractual obligation to protect the individual. Since the state will never eliminate threats to the person, then there can be no such reservation, or the state is in breach of contract.

    Furthermore, to deny the right of self protection, the state's inability to perform the obligation of protection would void the social contract, fundamentally undermining authority of the state, and legitimitizing revolution. It is therefore in the interests of the state to not only reserve the right of self protection to the individual, but take steps to make sure the individual has the means and ability to protect themselves, because that is within the power of the state. The state still offers protection through the use of police, but as long it does not reserve the right of individual protection, it can fulfill its obligation.

    To deny individuals the right to carry in schools, means the state assumes the responsibilty to protect those within the school boundaries. They OBVIOUSLY can not provide that protection. Therefore, they are denying me the most basic right of self preservation.

  13. #13
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    Default

    Yes, but under some very stringent restriction. It would require very indepth training for skill development in both gun handling/marksmanship and line of fire decision making. This also would include close quarters retention techniques and other useful skills. With annual recertification of needed skills. (actually I want this for everybody who carries.) And..... nobody knows who qualified to carry and who didn't. The students should only know that somewhere among them is a packer. Similar to the airline pilots except a real training course.

    Hey, I know where a person could get that training.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



  14. #14
    Member GrassLakeRon's Avatar
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    Default Dave is right

    Dave you are right. I carry a lifelong injury from saving a students life when I worked in Detriot. Saved 2 girls lives and almost drowned years later when I was on a field trip down the Huron River. My wife can tell you she wasn't happy when I called her from Grace Hospital 8 hours after I should have been home. Teachers will always be there for the kids. I wouldn't do anything different.

    I would not arm the group I work with. Of the 203 teachers in my building, 4 of us own/use guns. I would be more scared of them.

    Ron

  15. #15
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by walk-in View Post
    This subject comes up periodically....especially after school shootings. Here in Alaska, even though we can carry concealed without a permit, teachers are not allowed to carry concealed weapons in school. Should they be?
    I agree with AKmud.
    Absolutely, they should be "allowed", but not required.

    Like Murphy said,
    They should be required to take training, in CWs if they choose to carry on the school grounds.

    I don't see anything else that holds promise of a solution.

    Smitty of the North

  16. #16
    Member akndres's Avatar
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    Default voted no....grudgingly

    First off...my mother is a teacher, and I would want her to be safe at school without having to pack a weapon on her. It isn't hard for a cracked student to overpower a teacher these days... would you want that student to get the weapon? Kids would know which teachers were packin' and which teachers weren't. I don't think this is the answer.

    Where do we draw the line in the sand here??? Should nurses and doctors be allowed to carry if the next massacre is at a hospital? What about lawyers? Waitresses? Banktellers?

    We have to watch our knee-jerk responses at times like these. I think we should start throwing the book at weapons offenders. We shouldn't be allowed to plea out to manslaughter or get 2-4 or 3-6 years for killing people. Flip side.... we should start recognizing those brave folks that defend themselves with weapons (nationally). If a gun crime can be national news...then a gun defense should be national news.
    "The rich... who are content to buy what they have not the skill to get by their own excellence, these are the real enemies of game".... Theodore Roosevelt's A Principle of the Hunt

  17. #17
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    Wink

    I voted yes, if the teacher wants to. But this would do little to stop a person who does not care if he, or she lives! If the gunmen has a weapon he can wait for his opportunity, and pick his shot so to speak. If the armed person that repels the threat can remain hidden amongst the students in the class they all may have a much better chance! Just MHO, it"s a sad day indeed! Bill.
    ; for them that honour me I will honour, and they that despise me shall be lightly esteemed. 1 SAMUEL 2;30

  18. #18

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark View Post
    I'm not sure if we're ready for all teachers to carry weapons. I'll bet most would simply refuse, anyway.

    But at least one armed security guard in each school is clearly needed.

    Maybe instead of firearms we should just arm teachers and administrators with the legal tools to get jerks, idiots, and predators out of the facility. Maybe a bigger alternative school capability is needed, and there have tighter controls and disciplinary practices.

    You are absolutely right!!!!!! If we could get the emotionally disturbed and kids who are headed for long criminal careers into appropriate placements it is highly unlikely that a weapon would ever have to be unconcealed. I firmly believe that the adults who do these things are suicidal and are trying to inflict as much pain on others as they possibly can before they take their own lives, or commit suicide by cop. They choose schools because children are high value targets for their sick purposes, and they know they can maximize the damage before anyone can respond. We will probably never be able to totally eliminate these thankfully isolated incidents, but CC and an armed school security officer could certainly reduce the magnitude of these tragedies.

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Murphy View Post
    Yes, but under some very stringent restriction. It would require very indepth training for skill development in both gun handling/marksmanship and line of fire decision making. This also would include close quarters retention techniques and other useful skills. With annual recertification of needed skills. (actually I want this for everybody who carries.) And..... nobody knows who qualified to carry and who didn't. The students should only know that somewhere among them is a packer. Similar to the airline pilots except a real training course.

    Hey, I know where a person could get that training.
    I agree. The quaility of training will determine the quality of the response. The circumstances being discussed here require exactly what you are saying. The wolves who are doing these things need victims who will line up like sheep to the slaughter. If there is no clear avenue of escape you are dead anyway, just like the airline passengers on 911. We need the means, knowledge and training to effectively defend ourselves and possibly keep others from being harmed.

    I just went through a useless lockdown drill yesteday. My door, which requires a $75 high tech key, has the hinges on the outside, and there is a glass window about 10" above the door handle. Due to fire regulations, the doors can't be locked from the inside and the inside handle is always active. It made me think of some of the bodies they found at Pompei, huddled together in a corner with no way of fighting back against the force that killed them.

  20. #20
    Member stevelyn's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by walk-in View Post
    This subject comes up periodically....especially after school shootings. Here in Alaska, even though we can carry concealed without a permit, teachers are not allowed to carry concealed weapons in school. Should they be?
    Yes they should be allowed if they choose. I would also recommend those that do choose to carry, at least go through the CHL training course even if they don't apply for the AK CHL.

    I also believe that parents and others with legitimate business should be allowed to carry on school grounds too. Even though I'm currently exempt because I wear a badge and have the State's blessing, I will eventually retire or maybe even change careers. Why should I or any other parent have to disarm to pick up our kids? Maybe the school is safe, but what about the trip there and back?

    Currently only two states allow concealed carry on public school campuses. They are Utah and Oregon. Utah just got pulled through the legal grinder by one of their universities because the pukes running the university in typical leftist fashion, decided they wanted to make the school a gun-free zone and prohibit concealed carry on campus. Fortunately the rights of citizens prevailed and the university was told to go pound sand.
    I don't recall Oregon having any issues with campus carry so far.

    Alaska has the best gun laws in the nation, but they're not perfect. The prohibition on concealed carry on school grounds should be repealed. It's all window dressing and feel-good policies that do nothing, but put good citizens at risk. determined nut cases aren't affected. Afterall, such prohibitions didn't help the outcome at Virginia Tech, Bethel HS or any other school shooting.

    I'm not a compromising kind of guy, but I'd even be willing to restrict campus carry to those with CHLs just to get the legislation passed.
    I'm just wondering which legislators would be receptive to the idea.
    Now what ?

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