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Thread: 44 Mag Hardcast

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    Default 44 Mag Hardcast

    What factory loaded hard cast bullets would you recommend for bear protection, for the 44 mag? And why a hardcast instead of a good hollow point like the corbon?

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    Member alaska bush man's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Bullets

    Alot of hunters try to use hardcast like JSP and shoot thru the lungs......wrong! The Hardcast is designed to bust the shoulder blades or skull...........if you lung shoot I suggest a Speer GDSP 270gr in the 44 mag.
    Alaska

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    Default 44 mag

    corbon 320 grain hardcast,i love em.pretty much unstopable.
    GRIN

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    Member akndres's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stumper View Post
    What factory loaded hard cast bullets would you recommend for bear protection, for the 44 mag? And why a hardcast instead of a good hollow point like the corbon?
    Everyone's opinions and experiences are different, but here's my take:

    I like the Corbon 320's as well. I have a Ruger SuperRedhawk 7.5" barrel. They shoot very well. There is a noticeable hand shock with these over the other 44 ammo, but it is very manageable. I also like the "Alaska Backpacker" 300 gr ammo in 44mag. Both of these rounds are loaded considerably hotter than standard 240gr ammo. I average about 5-6" high at 30 yards with the backpacker/corbon ammo over regular JSP/Hollow point 240 grain ammo. On the flip side, I also like the Federal CastCore ammo in 300 grain. I believe it's moving around 1100 fps. Good slow heavy bullet for hunting.

    Bottomline... I wouldn't want to shoot a bear in the face with a hollowpoint/JSP. Granted, you will most likely never have to shoot a charging bear at point blank range with your 44 (period), but if you do, you want hard fast deformation resistant ammo punching him.

    When you speak of "bear protection"... I assume you mean that a bear is charging you, bluffing you, or your haveing a stand-off...either way the bear has its head and chest towards you. This is natures shield on an animal (thick bone, condensed muscle, small openings into the vitals). A hardcast bullet is going to penetrate that bone, muscle, and hide because it doesn't deform as readily as a hollow point. As the hollow point is deforming, it is losing velocity drastically due to friction from increased surface area. A hardcast bullet will retain its shape and resist deformation. The increased weight will use inertia to keep propelling it forward (busting through bone and muscle). This will help the hardcast reach those well protected organs (i.e. the brain, heart).

    If I were to use a 44 mag for hunting...Then I agree with the previous posts....Use bonded, JSP, soft lead, etc. A bullet that is going to be doing massive damage to organs without having to bust through massive bone and muscle (i.e. the broadside shot). Not saying you can't/shouldn't do a broadside shot with hardcast bullets, but they will have a tendency to just "punch a hole" through the soft organs and hide on a broadside shot. But then you throw in kinetic energy damage and that's a whole different subject....
    "The rich... who are content to buy what they have not the skill to get by their own excellence, these are the real enemies of game".... Theodore Roosevelt's A Principle of the Hunt

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    Murphy:
    Thanks for that good explanation, even if I didnít ask the question, myself. You convinced me.
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    Member RANGER RICK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stumper View Post
    What factory loaded hard cast bullets would you recommend for bear protection, for the 44 mag? And why a hardcast instead of a good hollow point like the corbon?

    stumper

    You can not go wrong with the Corbon 320's .They are a heat treated hard cast .
    Buffalo Bore has some good stoppers not sure if they are heat treated or not
    Hornady has loaded rounds of 300 Grain XTP . I have seen the damage these can do .

    If you ever get into rolling your own you will never go back to store bought !!!!

    For my Ruger Redhawk I use 360 Grain WFNGC heat treated . These will get your attention for sure !!!


    RR
    Practice does not make perfect !!!!!
    Perfect Practice makes perfect !!!!!!!!!!


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    Default Thanks

    Thanks to all for the replies. Now I understand why you would prefer hardcasts. Good information. Thanks again.

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    Federal makes some 44 rounds with 300gr gas checked Cast Performance bullets. I think they are loaded to around 1050fps. Not sure though.

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    Wink

    I think there around 1200fps for the federal ammo, Cast core. I'll tell you this they are all I need in my Ruger 4 5/8ths SBHK.I reload for other 44"'S but not in that gun they work so well! Great ammo for the non reloader.
    ; for them that honour me I will honour, and they that despise me shall be lightly esteemed. 1 SAMUEL 2;30

  10. #10

    Default Bear protection

    Sorry to butt in on this thread fellas, but it seems the Corbon 320's are the best thing to buy over the counter for bear protection?? We have a stainless 44 mag & and stainless Casull 454. If this ammo is pricey; what would be the best store bought ammo to practice with that would have similar firing characteristics (i.e. recoil/shock to the hands). Also, since we do not fire these guns often, what would the best target size and range to practice at for bear protection. We do have short barrel 12 ga. but that's impractical in some instances (flyout fishing trips).
    Thanks,
    Jim
    P.S. reason I asked; last July we did a flyout day trip to Alexander lake and right where we put the boats in the water and where the floatplane beaches, a sizeable blackie showed up about 45 minutes after we got in the boats; not scared at all, actually got in the lake about 15-20 yards from us; idiots who were from another outfit were throwing food and a caught pike at him; we had bear spray, but I think I would've felt a little more protected with one of the handguns that we left at our place. Throughout the day, another 3 or 4 bears (sow w/cubs) were seen all around where the boats are kept, probably cause some previous boneheads left an old sandwhich on the shoreline (hindsight-----next time I'll throw something like that in the water!) I know most of the bear scene focuses around browns/grizzlies, but I was kinda nervous around that black bear; he was very curious, not shy.
    Last edited by Big Jim; 04-22-2007 at 18:49. Reason: spelling

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    Member akndres's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Jim View Post
    Sorry to butt in on this thread fellas, but it seems the Corbon 320's are the best thing to buy over the counter for bear protection?? We have a stainless 44 mag & and stainless Casull 454. If this ammo is pricey; what would be the best store bought ammo to practice with that would have similar firing characteristics (i.e. recoil/shock to the hands). Also, since we do not fire these guns often, what would the best target size and range to practice at for bear protection. We do have short barrel 12 ga. but that's impractical in some instances (flyout fishing trips).
    Thanks,
    Jim
    .....
    Big Jim,

    Check out this website. Kinda puts black bears in perspective. Don't get me wrong a black bear will tear you a new one, if they get a hold of you. Your situation is a little different than the normal encounter because there was food involved. The handgun may be better served in taking out those idiots rather than the bear....you would be doing a public service....

    http://www.bearsmart.com/bearFacts/wwbear.pdf
    "The rich... who are content to buy what they have not the skill to get by their own excellence, these are the real enemies of game".... Theodore Roosevelt's A Principle of the Hunt

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Murphy View Post
    There is also a brand of ammo that I have tested that I find very good (for factory) and that's Alaska backpacker ammo. Very similar stuff but cheaper than Corbon.

    Also as for practice ammo, you need to find ammo that is the same velocity as the bear loads but wih a lighter bullet. This will give the same point of impact as the heavy loads. For instance if the bear loads are 320 grain at 1200 fps try a 240 grain at 1200 fps, the recoil will be a lot less and will have the same point of impact. If ammo is slower it will impact higher if it has higher velocity, it will stike lower on the target with the same point of aim.

    After I develop my heavy load for any revolver, I hand load a lighter bullet to a velocity to match my heavier load (A chronograph is a great tool) some times it takes some tweaking to get the POI exact but this works for a paractice load and lesser beast. (Ptarmigan/grouse/bunnies) This way I have only one sight setting and two loads. This can also be done with rifles but that's another forum.
    You think POI variation would be an issue at under 25 yards?

  13. #13

    Default Bears

    Hi guys, speaking of "under 25 yds", what range is ideal to practice handgunning for protection? I realize after all the posts that shooting these guns only occasionally is not going to cut it, so I want to be prepared (as least as much as possible) to not farm it if things get dicey.
    Thanks,
    Jim

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    Default 629 S&w

    This might be a little off topic but are the Corbon 320s or the Alaska Backpacker ammo safe to shoot in the Smith and Wesson 629 44mag? I thought I remember reading something that this pistol could not handle the hotter loads. Is this true?

    Sorry for getting off topic a little here, but I am new to this pistol shooting but am looking at getting out and shooting more and am also looking for a hardcast bullet to use in my Smith and Wesson.

    Thanks.

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    Buckmark, I have a mod. 29-4 with a 8&3/8" barrel that I shoot 300 or 320 gr hardcast handloads @ 1300-1350 thru regularly (probably over 500 rds) with no problems.
    Vance in AK.

    Matthew 6:33
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    Thumbs up Hornady 265 FN

    The Hornady 265 FN is another excellent bullet for the 44 Rem Mag.
    Alaska

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    I'm using 303 grain SSK hardcast slugs with 21.5 grains of H-110 and a magnum primer. It chronos at 1,250fps from my old 6.5 inch M-29.
    The box says they were supposed to be 310 grain, but they all weigh 303gr. Maybe they were thinking about a gas check being added.
    Floatplane,Tailwheel and Firearms Instructor- Dragonfly Aero
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    Wish I could add something, but Murphy, you have covered it all....

    If I get up to Fairbanks, you and I have got to get together. You are clearly a load developing, data crunching, gun testing mad scientist just like me...

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    Default Hardcast loads

    I have read the above postings and have had luck with using Garrett ammunition in both my 44 mag as well as my 45-70. Has anyone else used this ammunition and what was their results with it?

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by akndres View Post
    Everyone's opinions and experiences are different, but here's my take:

    I like the Corbon 320's as well. I have a Ruger SuperRedhawk 7.5" barrel. They shoot very well. There is a noticeable hand shock with these over the other 44 ammo, but it is very manageable. I also like the "Alaska Backpacker" 300 gr ammo in 44mag. Both of these rounds are loaded considerably hotter than standard 240gr ammo. I average about 5-6" high at 30 yards with the backpacker/corbon ammo over regular JSP/Hollow point 240 grain ammo. On the flip side, I also like the Federal CastCore ammo in 300 grain. I believe it's moving around 1100 fps. Good slow heavy bullet for hunting.

    Bottomline... I wouldn't want to shoot a bear in the face with a hollowpoint/JSP. Granted, you will most likely never have to shoot a charging bear at point blank range with your 44 (period), but if you do, you want hard fast deformation resistant ammo punching him.

    When you speak of "bear protection"... I assume you mean that a bear is charging you, bluffing you, or your haveing a stand-off...either way the bear has its head and chest towards you. This is natures shield on an animal (thick bone, condensed muscle, small openings into the vitals). A hardcast bullet is going to penetrate that bone, muscle, and hide because it doesn't deform as readily as a hollow point. As the hollow point is deforming, it is losing velocity drastically due to friction from increased surface area. A hardcast bullet will retain its shape and resist deformation. The increased weight will use inertia to keep propelling it forward (busting through bone and muscle). This will help the hardcast reach those well protected organs (i.e. the brain, heart).

    If I were to use a 44 mag for hunting...Then I agree with the previous posts....Use bonded, JSP, soft lead, etc. A bullet that is going to be doing massive damage to organs without having to bust through massive bone and muscle (i.e. the broadside shot). Not saying you can't/shouldn't do a broadside shot with hardcast bullets, but they will have a tendency to just "punch a hole" through the soft organs and hide on a broadside shot. But then you throw in kinetic energy damage and that's a whole different subject....
    Very well said. A very good detail of how and why a hard cast bullet works.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



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